BUYER BEWARE of Fake High-End BGS Slabs From Probstein: Luka and Zion Prizm - Page 4

KhalDrogo · 01-08-2021, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara99

No kidding.

Not to mention the thought that a silly hologram is stopping thief's from knocking off PSA slabs.

And not to mention that you could crack a new PSA slab, steal the flip, use it in a fake slab with a crappy card and then simply resubmit the card to PSA again. Rinse and repeat.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this stuff out. I'd bet its already happening.

Just let us know when you find one example. Shouldn’t be too hard for you.

Duvalier · 01-08-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Just let us know when you find one example. Shouldn’t be too hard for you.

You're trying too hard

Deadshot · 01-08-2021, 04:53 PM

This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it.

Duvalier · 01-08-2021, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it.

And thank you, for all that you and the others are doing to bring this to everyone's attention.

auburn35 · 01-09-2021, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aroyjetson

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miguel-Cabr...72.m2749.l2649
Purchased this and found NO PAT period or no period on bottom back of slab.
Called BGS and he verified slab was good.
Only Beckett stamped on top edge;

As others mentioned, not all BGS cases have the patent identified.
The thicker cases like this usually don't have the patent mark but with all the fake and altered cards popping up, nothing wrong with really inspecting your purchases.

auburn35 · 01-09-2021, 12:26 AM

Unfortunately this card has already sold (Probstein123) but hopefully the buyer comes across this thread and can work something out. The value has seen a nice bump, so even a refund still somewhat hurts.

Fake BGS 9.5 (9723660) 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan RC

Here's the card that was used to create the counterfeit Beckett case and label.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...dan-1866197383

TFP · 01-09-2021, 08:08 AM

If the PAT code and tag perforations aren’t enough, the Font on the subgrades of fakes are slightly different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn35

Here's another fake slab being sold on eBay, along with a photo of the legit BGS case that was sold via PWCC.

Fake Beckett case and label.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Pan...77dc%7Ciid%3A1

The BGS case and label that were used for the fake.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...nis-1956200000

GatorPie · 01-09-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it.

Exactly, thanks to the guys that are discovering this stuff. It's rather mind blowing.

KingLBJMJ · 01-09-2021, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

These scammers are likely putting cards with surface indentations and scratches in these holders. Harder to see those issues in a BGS slab.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but the biggest problem for me is the possibility that BGS might reslab some of these. Take damaged card, put it in a fake slab, send to BGS for a $5 reslab. Don't see why it wouldn't happen since at least one of their more senior employees is not even aware of the problem.

I thought, BGS will re-asses your cards when you want to re-slab? Isn't it almost the same when you submit a RAW grade? they will evaluate again? We'll that's just messed up. I was thinking BGS is one of the toughest to scam in terms of slab. Back to raw cards I guess. Are the serial numbers matching at least?

KhalDrogo · 01-09-2021, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLBJMJ

I thought, BGS will re-asses your cards when you want to re-slab? Isn't it almost the same when you submit a RAW grade? they will evaluate again? We'll that's just messed up. I was thinking BGS is one of the toughest to scam in terms of slab. Back to raw cards I guess. Are the serial numbers matching at least?

They don’t reassess unless you ask them to. That would be a graded card review. It’s only $5-7 for them to crack and reslab.

auburn35 · 01-09-2021, 09:35 PM

This one is fairly interesting and possibly provides a lead on a source of the fakes, as both the real and counterfeit BGS graded cards were listed and sold at the same time. Both the real and counterfeit BGS 9.5 are identified as selling on September 29, 2020

Another Fake BGS 9.5 (12150324) 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan RC, sold via Probstein123

While the counterfeit BGS case was listed and being sold with Probstein123, the legit BGS case that was used to create the counterfeit label and case was simultaneously being sold by the Beckett submitter. Seller happens to be superior sports investments (SSI), an account linked to a numerous altered cards.
Is SSI just unlucky, a card from their graded submission was used by a scammer and listed/sold on the exact same day?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...hlight=altered
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1277299
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...hlight=trimmed

auburn35 · 01-09-2021, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFP

If the PAT code and tag perforations aren’t enough, the Font on the subgrades of fakes are slightly different.

Correct. There are several differences between the real and counterfeit holders.

KhalDrogo · 01-09-2021, 09:49 PM

Probably coincidence. I do wonder how these guys are picking which cards to fake. Seemingly a very random assortment.

auburn35 · 01-09-2021, 10:14 PM

Yeah, maybe a clear pattern will develop with time and unfortunately, more examples.

Deadshot · 01-10-2021, 10:40 AM

More info about the MJ here...wow

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ3m8kXMK1M/

Basically, SSI sold the real cert # and Probstein sold the fake consigned one ON THE SAME DAY.

patchgenie · 01-10-2021, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This is

Fat kid on the Block is a trimming twit
Chinese slabs make me sick
And all this fraud is a bummer
Is a bummer

the great Luka Doncic, Jersey 77.

Pat3ntP3nd1ng · 01-10-2021, 11:12 AM

There is no consequences for these forgers and scammers. Why wouldn’t they just keep doing it? It’s free money and there for the taking. Panini publicly said 9 years ago that they would implement a patch ID system at the same time as they announce their rewards program. We see where their priorities are. Greed runs this industry because it’s certainly no longer a hobby. It’s truly the Wild West. No regulation, no rules, no integrity.

This starts from the top. All the card manufacturers, grading companies, and many distributors are complicit in the rampant fraud. As I’ve said before I’m sure there is inside people at all these companies that know what’s going on and take part in it. Here’s hoping that one day the FBI treats this like they would art or currency fraud.

Pat3ntP3nd1ng · 01-10-2021, 11:53 AM

Once there are laws created and enforced that make the manufacturing and/or selling of forged goods (cards) having significant consequences then you might see a reduction in fraud. This would hold major consignors responsible for verification. This becomes particularly important as the value of the items increase. It would work similar to the law that prohibits the receiving of stolen goods. It takes the ignorance plea out of the equation and reintroduces accountability. I don’t care what excuse the major consignors have i.e.
there is just too much inventory coming in to check all the cards. That’s bull ��. I bet if they knew they’d be fined they would find the time.

The fact of the matter is they could care less about the authenticity of what they’re selling. They rely on us to point out their ineptitude and then masquerade as they are on top of it when they delist it. They wait a few months or even weeks sometimes then its right back up for sale. Maybe once they get fined enough and in some cases criminally charged it will force them to demand changes from the card manufacturers and grading companies.

Enforcement of crimes is the only deterrent.

KhalDrogo · 01-10-2021, 03:44 PM

Owner of the legitimate copy of the fake sold in August has come forward. Don’t think it’s wise for BGS to continue to ignore this issue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ37Q9Fs...=1d79ft2gxhydi

auburn35 · 01-10-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Owner of the legitimate copy of the fake sold in August has come forward. Don’t think it’s wise for BGS to continue to ignore this issue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ37Q9Fs...=1d79ft2gxhydi

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to see the information making the rounds and
like this owner of the real BGS case, I hope the buyers of the counterfeits can also catch wind of the issues with their purchases.

Also, yesterday we did get some new discussion on the topic from Beckett, Dr. James Beckett.
https://youtu.be/nbsBTIoNU00?t=1019

KhalDrogo · 01-10-2021, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auburn35

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to see the information making the rounds and
like this owner of the real BGS case, I hope the buyers of the counterfeits can also catch wind of the issues with their purchases.

Also, yesterday we did get some new discussion on the topic from Beckett, Dr. James Beckett.
https://youtu.be/nbsBTIoNU00?t=1019

Jim is a moron. He can go ahead and post up the examples he's referencing. The BGS slab is also as simple as they get. Not hard to replicate. To think that educating the consumer on what a real slab should look like would give the bad guys some secret information is such a crock of BS.

auburn35 · 01-10-2021, 04:42 PM

For sure. If they haven't already done so, it's only a matter of time until the people counterfeiting the labels and cases catch up.

Deadshot · 01-10-2021, 04:52 PM

He went from "all" of the slabs to "many" and then immediately after "several." Then the defense of "look at the card." Get outta here.

RogerGodahell · 01-10-2021, 05:30 PM

His defense of "you should look at the card" would put BGS out of business. Why did they ever start a grading company then? I mean he's not wrong by saying that you should look at the card. But let's be realistic the grade can add a lot of value to the card. Sometimes it's not so obvious to spot the difference between a 9 and 9.5 but there is quite a difference in price. It's not a good enough answer imo.

KhalDrogo · 01-10-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

He went from "all" of the slabs to "many" and then immediately after "several." Then the defense of "look at the card." Get outta here.

Yeah, but are you buying the card or buying the slab? If you're buying the card, who cares if you buy a real card in a fake slab? Am I following his argument correctly?!

01-08-2021, 04:53 PM	#78
Deadshot Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7,694	This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it. __________________ He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA

01-09-2021, 12:26 AM	#81
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,280	Unfortunately this card has already sold (Probstein123) but hopefully the buyer comes across this thread and can work something out. The value has seen a nice bump, so even a refund still somewhat hurts. Fake BGS 9.5 (9723660) 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan RC Here's the card that was used to create the counterfeit Beckett case and label. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...dan-1866197383 __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

01-09-2021, 09:35 PM	#86
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,280	This one is fairly interesting and possibly provides a lead on a source of the fakes, as both the real and counterfeit BGS graded cards were listed and sold at the same time. Both the real and counterfeit BGS 9.5 are identified as selling on September 29, 2020 Another Fake BGS 9.5 (12150324) 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan RC, sold via Probstein123 While the counterfeit BGS case was listed and being sold with Probstein123, the legit BGS case that was used to create the counterfeit label and case was simultaneously being sold by the Beckett submitter. Seller happens to be superior sports investments (SSI), an account linked to a numerous altered cards. Is SSI just unlucky, a card from their graded submission was used by a scammer and listed/sold on the exact same day? https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...hlight=altered https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1277299 https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...hlight=trimmed __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

01-09-2021, 10:14 PM	#89
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,280	Yeah, maybe a clear pattern will develop with time and unfortunately, more examples. __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

01-10-2021, 10:40 AM	#90
Deadshot Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7,694	More info about the MJ here...wow https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ3m8kXMK1M/ Basically, SSI sold the real cert # and Probstein sold the fake consigned one ON THE SAME DAY. __________________ He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA

01-09-2021, 09:49 PM	#88
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,077	Probably coincidence. I do wonder how these guys are picking which cards to fake. Seemingly a very random assortment.

01-10-2021, 11:12 AM	#92
Pat3ntP3nd1ng Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: USA Posts: 2,709 GroveCityCollectibles lsmith242	There is no consequences for these forgers and scammers. Why wouldn’t they just keep doing it? It’s free money and there for the taking. Panini publicly said 9 years ago that they would implement a patch ID system at the same time as they announce their rewards program. We see where their priorities are. Greed runs this industry because it’s certainly no longer a hobby. It’s truly the Wild West. No regulation, no rules, no integrity. This starts from the top. All the card manufacturers, grading companies, and many distributors are complicit in the rampant fraud. As I’ve said before I’m sure there is inside people at all these companies that know what’s going on and take part in it. Here’s hoping that one day the FBI treats this like they would art or currency fraud.

01-10-2021, 11:53 AM	#93
Pat3ntP3nd1ng Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: USA Posts: 2,709 GroveCityCollectibles lsmith242	Once there are laws created and enforced that make the manufacturing and/or selling of forged goods (cards) having significant consequences then you might see a reduction in fraud. This would hold major consignors responsible for verification. This becomes particularly important as the value of the items increase. It would work similar to the law that prohibits the receiving of stolen goods. It takes the ignorance plea out of the equation and reintroduces accountability. I don’t care what excuse the major consignors have i.e. there is just too much inventory coming in to check all the cards. That’s bull ��. I bet if they knew they’d be fined they would find the time. The fact of the matter is they could care less about the authenticity of what they’re selling. They rely on us to point out their ineptitude and then masquerade as they are on top of it when they delist it. They wait a few months or even weeks sometimes then its right back up for sale. Maybe once they get fined enough and in some cases criminally charged it will force them to demand changes from the card manufacturers and grading companies. Enforcement of crimes is the only deterrent.

01-10-2021, 03:44 PM	#94
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,077	Owner of the legitimate copy of the fake sold in August has come forward. Don’t think it’s wise for BGS to continue to ignore this issue. https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ37Q9Fs...=1d79ft2gxhydi

01-10-2021, 04:42 PM	#97
auburn35 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,280	For sure. If they haven't already done so, it's only a matter of time until the people counterfeiting the labels and cases catch up. __________________ Ashley Lelie Rookie Collector, always looking for more.

01-10-2021, 04:52 PM	#98
Deadshot Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7,694	He went from "all" of the slabs to "many" and then immediately after "several." Then the defense of "look at the card." Get outta here. __________________ He said he name was “E”, so I introduced myself as “G”...The license plate said “IMNBITZ” or “IMNBISZ” or something. - G YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPuD3WYJ0rkpLqDdyavC2WA

01-10-2021, 05:30 PM	#99
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	His defense of "you should look at the card" would put BGS out of business. Why did they ever start a grading company then? I mean he's not wrong by saying that you should look at the card. But let's be realistic the grade can add a lot of value to the card. Sometimes it's not so obvious to spot the difference between a 9 and 9.5 but there is quite a difference in price. It's not a good enough answer imo.