0 autos 1 redemption in whole case of bowman 23 hobby

[free2131]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

If you want a Sprite, JUST BUY A SPRITE. Why buy a "chance" at a Sprite?

Obviously in this instance because of the gambling aspect. You spend a smaller amount for a change to get a higher value item. I'm definitely not arguing that it's a smart thing to do, but even people who don't make the best decisions should be protected from mistakes like this.

You and I are probably largely in agreement about group breaking and the wisdom of it both from a personal standpoint and from the standpoint of the overall health of the hobby.

And the guy who hit the Baty auto? The guy who bought a "chance" at a card and actually won his gamble? His reward is to get the Baty shipped back to Topps because other people cried about losing their gamble?

You can play the "what if" game until the conversation turns into a hypothetical web that won't ever get back on track, but who's to say that had each box delivered what was advertised, he wouldn't have gotten another Baty auto? He potentially could have been as much of a victim of the error than the other breakers. But since the entire break was advertised as having a change at each different team autos, the only solution that would be equitable (in my mind) to the majority of the buyers would be to refund and return.

Now, it could be possible that Topps wouldn't require all the contents be returned to them to be able to get another case, and if that was the case (pun intended), then the breakers should send out all the cards won by each buyer, including the Bety. They would still all be refunded in this instance.

Again, that's just how I would handle the situation.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

^^^ I'll just reiterate what this guy said, as it is a reasonable take on the whole thing. Everything else is just noise.

Except it's only a reasonable take on the surface.

If anyone committed false advertising, it was Topps. The person who has privity of contract with Topps is the breaker, not those gamblers who bought into the break. Therefore, the breaker can take it up with Topps. And repeatedly equating a missing hit with fraud is either an inaccurate understanding at best, or outright disingenuous at worst. This is a packaging error. Fraud requires an intent to defraud. There is no proof of that here.

Of course, the breaker has a business to run and a reputation to consider, so making their customers happy is certainly something they should try to figure out. But there is nothing about Harry's take that is correct.

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[oldgoldy97]

2021 Bowman’s Best was ripe with dead boxes/cases. The LCS had one. I put in a request and was sent four autos. Everyone else who bought from that case did the same. I would think the GB host would request the missing hits and they go to whoever had those teams.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Except it's only a reasonable take on the surface.

If anyone committed false advertising, it was Topps. The person who has privity of contract with Topps is the breaker, not those gamblers who bought into the break. Therefore, the breaker can take it up with Topps. And repeatedly equating a missing hit with fraud is either an inaccurate understanding at best, or outright disingenuous at worst. This is a packaging error. Fraud requires an intent to defraud. There is no proof of that here.

Of course, the breaker has a business to run and a reputation to consider, so making their customers happy is certainly something they should try to figure out. But there is nothing about Harry's take that is correct.

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Unfortunately, there's a lotof information we're not privy to at the moment. We're not dealing with a missing hit. I wouldn't give a monkey's spatula about a missing hit. But to miss ALL of the supposed guaranteed autos? I don't see how you can't look at that and see how asset misappropriation could be in play here.

Your assumption that this is a packaging error is as equally legitimate as an assumption of fraud. We just don't know the intent behind the false advertising. Nothing in this hobby would surprise me anymore.

Arthur

[TooManyCards76]

It’s simple, the case should have had the guaranteed auto, it didn’t. Most of us would agree that a large % of a boxes value on average comes from the auto in the box, sure some boxes it only returns 5% of the value, but there are boxes that return 100-1000% of the boxes value. While it’s probably impossible to quantify what % on average the auto provides the people that bought into the break were denied that value when it was supposed to be guaranteed.

Hopefully Topps/Fanatics is working with the breaker to make it right, and if there were nefarious forces at work (which I personally believe there is because a company can’t be this incompetent with all their pack out issues) that the person(s) responsible are held liable.

[sportzluvr1]

Regular Bowman baseball is almost $300 a box.

Not Jumbo. Regular.

I hope you all lose your asses so boxes can be affordable again.

[babybull]

Originally Posted by sportzluvr1

Regular Bowman baseball is almost $300 a box.

Not Jumbo. Regular.

I hope you all lose your asses so boxes can be affordable again.

Topps is going to continue to price in this manner. We are not going back to pre pandemic pricing. Sorry.

[PDCCollectibles]

Originally Posted by sportzluvr1

Regular Bowman baseball is almost $300 a box.

Not Jumbo. Regular.

I hope you all lose your asses so boxes can be affordable again.

Pre 2019 is long gone....

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by sportzluvr1

Regular Bowman baseball is almost $300 a box.

Not Jumbo. Regular.

I hope you all lose your asses so boxes can be affordable again.

Originally Posted by babybull

Topps is going to continue to price in this manner. We are not going back to pre pandemic pricing. Sorry.

Originally Posted by PDCCollectibles

Pre 2019 is long gone....

yep. Breakers will make sure the prices stay high.

just wait a few months and buy the singles you desire

[johnlocke36]

It’s jsut such an easy solution. Buy a case. Sell a spot for all non auto cards and keep the money for that. Send out 12 autos + baty. Customers love you know and your ethics. Between the profits from first break and the non autos in second you are prob close to even or down peanuts. Now take it up with topps and pretty much free roll getting s replacement case from then which you can keep.

Max loss is what a couple hundred and you’re a favorite to make couple thousand. Doing anything other then this immediately is just hilariously stupid and short sighted as a business owner

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Unfortunately, there's a lotof information we're not privy to at the moment. We're not dealing with a missing hit. I wouldn't give a monkey's spatula about a missing hit. But to miss ALL of the supposed guaranteed autos? I don't see how you can't look at that and see how asset misappropriation could be in play here.



Your assumption that this is a packaging error is as equally legitimate as an assumption of fraud. We just don't know the intent behind the false advertising. Nothing in this hobby would surprise me anymore.



Arthur

Your logic is terrible. I've seen dozens of cases open that had the advertised hits. Topps gives a general advertisement on all the boxes of one auto per box. Basically all of them besides this case have had them so far (other than a few individual boxes that are also missing hits). So no, my assumption that a case missed the hits in the packing process is not equally as likely as Topps intentionally committing fraud by removing autos from this single case sent to a random breaker. That's an insane assumption. And since the case was opened on camera without any evidence of funny business from the breaker, you can't even say fraud by the breaker is as likely as a pcking error. Again, your logic is just poor.

But one thing we do know, if Topps was the one who left out the hits, the break participants have no legal recourse. Your statements about false advertising are both inaccurate from a legal standpoint, and logical one. And your advice to seek a refund from the breaker if Topps doesn't make it right is not right.

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[sportzluvr1]

Not expecting $56.50/box presales like the good ole days.... but somewhere in the middle i will take.

[AwesomeBrian]

This happens, I've seen it. Breaker needs to contact Topps and show the video. Topps will send out autos in a few months, the breaker will then need to get them to the correct buyers.

I love the logic of the people saying 'don't buy breaks' and 'don't rip wax, just buy singles'. Do they realize that if everyone listened to them and stopped buying breaks and stopped ripping wax that there would be no new singles to buy?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBrian

This happens, I've seen it. Breaker needs to contact Topps and show the video. Topps will send out autos in a few months, the breaker will then need to get them to the correct buyers.

I love the logic of the people saying 'don't buy breaks' and 'don't rip wax, just buy singles'. Do they realize that if everyone listened to them and stopped buying breaks and stopped ripping wax that there would be no new singles to buy?

There will be singles and there will be plenty of cheaper wax to open, always.

[Hail2TheVictors]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

if the case had 65 autos in it, would they return the extras to Topps?

gambling is a risk, indeed.

Hey, you've just earned a spot on Fanatics team with that comment!

Surely you cannot be serious here. A hobby case, as we all know, should deliver 12 autos. If it delivers 1, and your response is "if it had 65 autos in it, would they return the extra?" - you're far off base.

If I'm a manufacturer, and the product delivers less than 10% of what it's supposed to...I'm going to make that right. How would I do that? I would provide a replacement case with the stipulation that the breaker adds it to the 1 dud case.

Will Fanatics do that? Who knows.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by Hail2TheVictors

Hey, you've just earned a spot on Fanatics team with that comment!

Surely you cannot be serious here. A hobby case, as we all know, should deliver 12 autos. If it delivers 1, and your response is "if it had 65 autos in it, would they return the extra?" - you're far off base.

If I'm a manufacturer, and the product delivers less than 10% of what it's supposed to...I'm going to make that right. How would I do that? I would provide a replacement case with the stipulation that the breaker adds it to the 1 dud case.

Will Fanatics do that? Who knows.

Everyone must not know this, or care, otherwise the autos would be there. Not only that, but you wouldn't have more and more QC problems with each new release.

[hottoys2012]

did it show them opening the actual case and every box ? like breaking the plastic wrap and everything ?

[Jolten Joe]

Originally Posted by hottoys2012

did it show them opening the actual case and every box ? like breaking the plastic wrap and everything ?

Yeah it did. The guy other than having no clue what he was opening like not knowing the names of half the inserts seemed to be on the up and up and genuinely was dumbfounded. But like I said 4 or 5 boxes in with no Autos the guy should have known something was up and stopped the break and refunded everyone's money at that point and took the issue up with Topps to get his money back for that case.

[Dman05888]

Any reputable breaker will make it right, even if they have to come out of pocket on another case. If they didnt, I would NEVER break with them again. Sometimes you take the loss to make sure your customers are taken care of.

[13CardinalsFan]

Originally Posted by Dman05888

Any reputable breaker will make it right, even if they have to come out of pocket on another case. If they didnt, I would NEVER break with them again. Sometimes you take the loss to make sure your customers are taken care of.

Well I was in this break. I will not ever break with them again. They still haven't done anything except ship the cards. I received mine today. Break said ALL CARDS SHIP. I only received the inserts, chrome and parallels. Not a single base card shipped. Only 4 cards were sleeved and some of the parallel cards were not in toploaders. I did this break because they said all cards shipped because I build team sets.

I asked earlier today if they had an update and the guy said he has only seen the boss once in the last 3 days. Doesn't sound like the owner cares.

I would not recommend this breaker(Badger Breaks) to say the least.

[bloodwings19]

Originally Posted by Dman05888

Any reputable breaker will make it right, even if they have to come out of pocket on another case.

If the breaker was doing it for the hobby, breaker should of stopped after the 3rd box, if no autographs were found in the 3 boxes. I witnessed a Jumbo case break that had 6 additional autographs.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by bloodwings19

If the breaker was doing it for the hobby, breaker should of stopped after the 3rd box, if no autographs were found in the 3 boxes. I witnessed a Jumbo case break that had 6 additional autographs.

No. He did exactly what he should have. Continued breaking, reach out to Topps and get the missed hits to distribute.

We are talking about a single missed hit per box.

[hairysasquatch]

The new Fanatics model for Bowman - 4X the price of 2019 with 1/4 of the content value.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Your logic is terrible. I've seen dozens of cases open that had the advertised hits. Topps gives a general advertisement on all the boxes of one auto per box. Basically all of them besides this case have had them so far (other than a few individual boxes that are also missing hits). So no, my assumption that a case missed the hits in the packing process is not equally as likely as Topps intentionally committing fraud by removing autos from this single case sent to a random breaker. That's an insane assumption. And since the case was opened on camera without any evidence of funny business from the breaker, you can't even say fraud by the breaker is as likely as a pcking error. Again, your logic is just poor.

I agree, it is an insane assumption. Probably why I didn't specify Topps as the guilty party. If someone resealed a case with one piece of clear packing tape that someone quickly cut through with a boxcutter and immediately opened it up and started pulling boxes, no one would have any idea if that case had been opened previously. We just don't get any kind of look at the condition of the seal points on cases in these break rooms. Am I saying this is the most likely scenario? No. But to eliminate the possibility of certain causalities at this point without knowing more facts seems pretty premature.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyer

But one thing we do know, if Topps was the one who left out the hits, the break participants have no legal recourse. Your statements about false advertising are both inaccurate from a legal standpoint, and logical one. And your advice to seek a refund from the breaker if Topps doesn't make it right is not right.

I would think it would depend on the State that the breaker is located in. But we have 180 days through Paypal to do a refund as well as the option to do a chargeback on your credit card. I'm not a hot shot Ohio lawyer but I'm pretty sure both of those options fall under the category of "legal recourse." There are, of course, other action one could take in the breaker's hometown but, like I said earlier, I think they should be given ample time to figure out they're in a bind and need to do what's best for them and their customers. I imagine they're taking the Fanatics route first, which they should be given enough time to adequately pursue.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I agree, it is an insane assumption. Probably why I didn't specify Topps as the guilty party. If someone resealed a case with one piece of clear packing tape that someone quickly cut through with a boxcutter and immediately opened it up and started pulling boxes, no one would have any idea if that case had been opened previously. We just don't get any kind of look at the condition of the seal points on cases in these break rooms. Am I saying this is the most likely scenario? No. But to eliminate the possibility of certain causalities at this point without knowing more facts seems pretty premature.



I would think it would depend on the State that the breaker is located in. But we have 180 days through Paypal to do a refund as well as the option to do a chargeback on your credit card. I'm not a hot shot Ohio lawyer but I'm pretty sure both of those options fall under the category of "legal recourse." There are, of course, other action one could take in the breaker's hometown but, like I said earlier, I think they should be given ample time to figure out they're in a bind and need to do what's best for them and their customers. I imagine they're taking the Fanatics route first, which they should be given enough time to adequately pursue.

I think you are conflating false advertising with fraud. If Topps says each box should have 1 auto, that could potentially be false advertising. If a breaker opens a case and removes the hits and reseals it. That is fraud, not false advertising. My issue with your comments was that you kept equating false advertising and fraud, and as you put it, not specifying which party was potentially guilty.