2025 Topps Finest Baseball: Are we talking about this?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by callou2131

Its amazing that in singles the covid boom crashed, but not on sealed product. makes 0 sense to me why people keep buying it.

Because gambling addicts continue to buy into breaks....

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

It’s not a “shot”.

I hate to break it to you, but it’s the reality of what has happened to wax prices in our hobby.

Why so defensive?

You can have a differing opinion about it.

Do people have more money now and don’t mind spending more for higher quality products?

Have the companies taken the meat off the bone for flippers, ie, the wise business move?

Please discuss.

You, MFW, and Fabiani have been repeating yourselves for years, over and over and over again. We get it. It's not being defensive. It's more trying to figure out why you three feel the need to hijack every single thread with it. If you are that turned off by the hobby, breakers, the quality of local shows, etc. then why are you so active here?

I've discussed my views many times. I enjoy the modern hobby/business. I remember how miserable things were in 2013-2015 when you had 20 customers at a show, kids didn't care about cards, celebrities/influencers weren't involved in the hobby, and a company like Fanatics wouldn't have touched Topps with a 10-foot pole because it was a dying business. We were SO close to becoming extinct. I personally know businesses and dealers that were close to bankruptcy, and some went through with it. I could write a book on how bad things were at that time.

I'll take the lesser of two evils at this point. I'll take the booming attendance, pelican cases, breakers, cameras, music, influencers, celebrities, and stupid prices because it means the hobby is strong, relevant, "cool", worthy of media attention, worthy of hundred million-dollar investments, and isn't going anywhere. I never want to go back to eating boiled hotdogs at boring shows hoping I sell enough to make my $30 table cost back.

And I get that I'm a dealer so my perspective is different, but I collected for over a decade in the 90's and 00's and the reason I collected is because everyone around me also collected and it made the hobby fun. That's similar to what's happening today. Kids are coming to shows with all their friends. Families are coming to shows. Women are coming to shows. It's not seven old men pulling dime cards to finish their sets like it was in 2014. Maybe you want it to be that way, but that's a selfish way to view things.

So you can continue to repeat yourself over and over again but I don't see the point. Perhaps the hobby has outgrown you.

[hermanotarjeta]

How can an anecdotal thread be hijacked? Just because it’s the opposite of how you (want to ) view things? Are we supposed to lie about our observations just to appease the dealers here?

I’ve adjusted to the hobby by buying more singles. I can’t find those singles at local shows or even bigger shows for that matter. I still open some wax on occasion. I like to hear about other people’s experiences. That’s why we are still here.

We don’t try to skew reality as our business interests aren’t threatened by it. We tell it like it is.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

How can an anecdotal thread be hijacked? Just because it’s the opposite of how you (want to ) view things? Are we supposed to lie about our observations just to appease the dealers here?

I’ve adjusted to the hobby by buying more singles. I can’t find those singles at local shows or even bigger shows for that matter. I still open some wax on occasion. I like to hear about other people’s experiences. That’s why we are still here.

We don’t try to skew reality as our business interests aren’t threatened by it. We tell it like it is.

Calling everyone degenerates and addicts isn't "telling it like it is". You and others are reverting to name calling and labeling as a way to describe the things you don't like about the hobby. You want us to believe that everyone is overleveraged and maxed out on credit and that any day now the whole hobby is gonna go bust. You've created a narrative that the hobby is riddled with slime. You are underestimating how large the hobby is. Sure, there are bound to be people who get into financial trouble because they overdid it, and there are bound to be crooks, but that's such a small percentage of people.

At least my "view" on things is fair and objective. I don't walk around in disgust assuming that everyone with a pelican case or a breaker account is evil or afflicted with the disease of addiction. If you want to discuss the hobby objectively, challenge yourself not to be derogative. Have meaningful discussion without the unnecessary one-liners and judgments. I don't think you can, though.

[theredmenace]

If any of you degens (term of endearment I promise) hit a headliners insert, I'm buying!

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Calling everyone degenerates and addicts isn't "telling it like it is". You and others are reverting to name calling and labeling as a way to describe the things you don't like about the hobby. You want us to believe that everyone is overleveraged and maxed out on credit and that any day now the whole hobby is gonna go bust. You've created a narrative that the hobby is riddled with slime. You are underestimating how large the hobby is. Sure, there are bound to be people who get into financial trouble because they overdid it, and there are bound to be crooks, but that's such a small percentage of people.

At least my "view" on things is fair and objective. I don't walk around in disgust assuming that everyone with a pelican case or a breaker account is evil or afflicted with the disease of addiction. If you want to discuss the hobby objectively, challenge yourself not to be derogative. Have meaningful discussion without the unnecessary one-liners and judgments. I don't think you can, though.

Again, I hate to break it to you, but that small percentage of the hobby is what’s moving it. The rest of us have to deal with their shenanigans. What makes the headlines? Little Timmy completing his flagship set?

No, it’s the million dollar bounties and the high stakes gambling they call the breaker culture. Sure, things might be fine and dainty in your neck of the woods, but many of us are being squeezed by all the razzle and dazzle and it’s sad to see everyone consumed by it.

It’s like the stock market - there are some who are eternal bulls and there are those who are perpetually calling the top - open your eyes to both sides of the story. Someone will be a bag holder and someone will miss the boat.

I don’t understand why some people take the term “degenerate gambling” so seriously here - is it a reflection of your own insecurities? If you are not a degenerate gambler, why do you need to sympathize with them or even identify with them? If you have good control of your finances, who cares?

I don’t see it as any different from those who taunt using the “miss the boat”phrase. I mean, if you don’t care if you got on or not, why get bothered by it? If you are not a degenerate gambler, why care?

If the sellers/flippers/dealers here in any way feel threatened by how another member observes the hobby, even to the point of being triggered by how some people referring to breaker johns as degenerate gamblers, maybe consider getting yourself in a more stable financial position, don’t put all your eggs in the card industry basket.

If it makes you feel better, start calling folks who seem to always be negative about the hobby “disciplined purists”, or something that will get people to want to spend all their savings on sports cards instead of stopping themselves for participating in yet another break.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by theredmenace

If any of you degens (term of endearment I promise) hit a headliners insert, I'm buying!

Me too!

Degens, recoupe your losses on those gilded breaks by selling those gilded gold storms for pure hard cash!

[hermanotarjeta]

Hobby boxes less than $400 now at the local shop - initially wanted $500.

[premium1981]

I pop in to see what has happened over the weekend, and imagine my surprise to see its Herman calling people names again. Why am I not surprised? Every. Freaking. Time.

[Maverik]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

You, MFW, and Fabiani have been repeating yourselves for years, over and over and over again. We get it. It's not being defensive. It's more trying to figure out why you three feel the need to hijack every single thread with it. If you are that turned off by the hobby, breakers, the quality of local shows, etc. then why are you so active here?

I've discussed my views many times. I enjoy the modern hobby/business. I remember how miserable things were in 2013-2015 when you had 20 customers at a show, kids didn't care about cards, celebrities/influencers weren't involved in the hobby, and a company like Fanatics wouldn't have touched Topps with a 10-foot pole because it was a dying business. We were SO close to becoming extinct. I personally know businesses and dealers that were close to bankruptcy, and some went through with it. I could write a book on how bad things were at that time.

I'll take the lesser of two evils at this point. I'll take the booming attendance, pelican cases, breakers, cameras, music, influencers, celebrities, and stupid prices because it means the hobby is strong, relevant, "cool", worthy of media attention, worthy of hundred million-dollar investments, and isn't going anywhere. I never want to go back to eating boiled hotdogs at boring shows hoping I sell enough to make my $30 table cost back.

And I get that I'm a dealer so my perspective is different, but I collected for over a decade in the 90's and 00's and the reason I collected is because everyone around me also collected and it made the hobby fun. That's similar to what's happening today. Kids are coming to shows with all their friends. Families are coming to shows. Women are coming to shows. It's not seven old men pulling dime cards to finish their sets like it was in 2014. Maybe you want it to be that way, but that's a selfish way to view things.

So you can continue to repeat yourself over and over again but I don't see the point. Perhaps the hobby has outgrown you.

Really well said.

[Mattsurewood]

Some of these 2025 Finest inserts are extremely rare, if people see them at shows for cheap, you may want to scoop them up..not saying that scarcity will equate to value, but player collectors may find it hard to get their guy--So many people are brushing off the product because of the sticker price, but there may be some hidden gems to be found..

For Instance:

Smashing Through--It's a 1:4 case hit. With 25 cards in the set, any single player would be 1:100 cases

Bullish---same thing, these fall 1:4 cases, 25 card set as well

Fiesta--1:6 cases, 10-card set..1:60 cases to get any individual player

Gusto--1:2 cases, 35 card set, 1:70 cases to get any individual player

Let's Go--1:33 Cases, 5 card set...1:167 cases to get any individual player

Headliners--1:11 cases, 15 card set...1:167 cases to get any individual player

So, if you're walking around at a show and see these on a table for cheap, might be worth a speculative grab..

I'd say there are about 8000 cases of this based on the Headliner Superfractor odds...so, approximately 45-50 print run of each 'Headliner' and 'Let's Go' insert based on that math..

Lastly--Base "Rare"s--with 2 base rares per box, and 16 base rares per case, there would be 128,000 total base rares, and with it being a set of 100 cards, about 1,280 of each base rare card. An Ohtani went for $14.50...I think there's some room to grow there. A base rare Nick Kurtz could be a steal at the $40-45 they've been getting (just my opinion).

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Again, I hate to break it to you, but that small percentage of the hobby is what’s moving it. The rest of us have to deal with their shenanigans. What makes the headlines? Little Timmy completing his flagship set?

No, it’s the million dollar bounties and the high stakes gambling they call the breaker culture. Sure, things might be fine and dainty in your neck of the woods, but many of us are being squeezed by all the razzle and dazzle and it’s sad to see everyone consumed by it.

It’s like the stock market - there are some who are eternal bulls and there are those who are perpetually calling the top - open your eyes to both sides of the story. Someone will be a bag holder and someone will miss the boat.

I don’t understand why some people take the term “degenerate gambling” so seriously here - is it a reflection of your own insecurities? If you are not a degenerate gambler, why do you need to sympathize with them or even identify with them? If you have good control of your finances, who cares?

I don’t see it as any different from those who taunt using the “miss the boat”phrase. I mean, if you don’t care if you got on or not, why get bothered by it? If you are not a degenerate gambler, why care?

If the sellers/flippers/dealers here in any way feel threatened by how another member observes the hobby, even to the point of being triggered by how some people referring to breaker johns as degenerate gamblers, maybe consider getting yourself in a more stable financial position, don’t put all your eggs in the card industry basket.

If it makes you feel better, start calling folks who seem to always be negative about the hobby “disciplined purists”, or something that will get people to want to spend all their savings on sports cards instead of stopping themselves for participating in yet another break.

Being addicted to gambling (even before the degenerate stage) is a disability. I do sympathize with disabled people, and I don’t support treating disabled people badly - whether it’s name calling or laying blame for my first world problems.

Just my view of it.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Mattsurewood

Some of these 2025 Finest inserts are extremely rare, if people see them at shows for cheap, you may want to scoop them up..not saying that scarcity will equate to value, but player collectors may find it hard to get their guy--So many people are brushing off the product because of the sticker price, but there may be some hidden gems to be found..

For Instance:

Smashing Through--It's a 1:4 case hit. With 25 cards in the set, any single player would be 1:100 cases

Bullish---same thing, these fall 1:4 cases, 25 card set as well

Fiesta--1:6 cases, 10-card set..1:60 cases to get any individual player

Gusto--1:2 cases, 35 card set, 1:70 cases to get any individual player

Let's Go--1:33 Cases, 5 card set...1:167 cases to get any individual player

Headliners--1:11 cases, 15 card set...1:167 cases to get any individual player

So, if you're walking around at a show and see these on a table for cheap, might be worth a speculative grab..

I'd say there are about 8000 cases of this based on the Headliner Superfractor odds...so, approximately 45-50 print run of each 'Headliner' and 'Let's Go' insert based on that math..

Great info!

Are any of the inserts serial-numbered?

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Being addicted to gambling (even before the degenerate stage) is a disability. I do sympathize with disabled people, and I don’t support treating disabled people badly - whether it’s name calling or laying blame for my first world problems.

Just my view of it.

I really think fanatics should consider placing addiction help resources on their packaging and breakers should be required to mention this prior to all broadcasts.

It’s a serious issue that we make fun of here on these boards, but the addiction can have serious consequences on people’s lives.

I’ve seen the destruction it can cause, and the attitude of “my money, my choices” shouldn’t be thrown around here so casually.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I really think fanatics should consider placing addiction help resources on their packaging and breakers should be required to mention this prior to all broadcasts.

It’s a serious issue that we make fun of here on these boards, but the addiction can have serious consequences on people’s lives.

I’ve seen the destruction it can cause, and the attitude of “my money, my choices” shouldn’t be thrown around here so casually.

Those programs are federally funded, and the only way that you would get support for that idea is for the body who supervises those funds to legally recognize that buying baseball cards is gambling. That has not happened.

I got trounced on these boards for stating that buying baseball cards is not considered gambling, but the truth is that it hasn’t been adjudicated that way. Unless they set age restrictions on buying and start checking IDs at purchase, it is definitionally not recognized as gambling.

[Mattsurewood]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Great info!

Are any of the inserts serial-numbered?

The Headliners are not, neither are Smashing Through...I haven't looked at the others on eBay but I'm doubting it. That's why I think some sellers may sell light, especially early on..and especially at shows this week

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Being addicted to gambling (even before the degenerate stage) is a disability. I do sympathize with disabled people, and I don’t support treating disabled people badly - whether it’s name calling or laying blame for my first world problems.

Just my view of it.

Thats absurd. A gambling addiction isn't in the same boat as someone dealing with a physical or cognitive disability.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Those programs are federally funded, and the only way that you would get support for that idea is for the body who supervises those funds to legally recognize that buying baseball cards is gambling. That has not happened.

I got trounced on these boards for stating that buying baseball cards is not considered gambling, but the truth is that it hasn’t been adjudicated that way. Unless they set age restrictions on buying and start checking IDs at purchase, it is definitionally not recognized as gambling.

But aren’t the very things we find harmful about gambling the exact same things we see in folks who show impulse control issues in the breaker culture?

Severe credit debt, inability to function in society, interpersonal relationship issues - these are the precise consequences of those who can’t control their break purchases.

Those who are in this hobby to make money - the manufactures/breakers/dealers/flippers - they are all essentially profiting and exploiting those who have this destructive handicap.

Perhaps it’s about time the government intervenes. The self-destruction is evident.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Mattsurewood

The Headliners are not, neither are Smashing Through...I haven't looked at the others on eBay but I'm doubting it. That's why I think some sellers may sell light, especially early on..and especially at shows this week

Thanks for your insight as always!

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Those programs are federally funded, and the only way that you would get support for that idea is for the body who supervises those funds to legally recognize that buying baseball cards is gambling. That has not happened.

I got trounced on these boards for stating that buying baseball cards is not considered gambling, but the truth is that it hasn’t been adjudicated that way. Unless they set age restrictions on buying and start checking IDs at purchase, it is definitionally not recognized as gambling.

Also, buying packs of baseball cards in itself may not be gambling, just as buying a randomized bag of Halloween candy may not be gambling, but placing a value on how many crackles, snickers, mounds and almond joys are pulled by a grown human on a live stream in that bag and how humans may twist a non-gambling product into a gambling product may need to be subject to government regulation, especially if it causes harmful consequences.

[The Accountant]

I opened my 10 direct from Topps, can't imagine paying more than what I did and feeling good.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by The Accountant

I opened my 10 direct from Topps, can't imagine paying more than what I did and feeling good.

Top 3 hits?

[The Accountant]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Top 3 hits?

Malloy orange auto patch
Ohtani gold timeless
Yadi black redemption auto

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by The Accountant

Malloy orange auto patch
Ohtani gold timeless
Yadi black redemption auto

Thank you for the warning. At least you got in at a reasonable price.

[The Accountant]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Thank you for the warning. At least you got in at a reasonable price.

Thanks - honestly yeah its ok, considering my stacks of base, refractors, and x-fractors and around 60-70ish parallels or so. my other autos were bad though, unless I'm underestimating any of them. At a higher price, I'd of been cooked.