Akili Smith: Manziel reminds me of myself - Page 4

davdukes4 · 07-03-2014, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blevins26

"The most relevant people in America"

I think your boat motor is set to troll

I meant entertainment. Bieber, drake, Lebron, Mayweather....feel free to name some bigger stars and celebrities.

I pose the same question to you. Who do you believe will be more successfully than Manziel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blevins26

"The most relevant people in America"

I think your boat motor is set to troll

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion624

I don't think Luck's success so far on the field has anything to do with it. It has more to do with the way Manziel conducts his business off the field. Bortles, while not as accomplished on the field as Manziel, is much more low key and seems (from what I have seen at least) much more interested in football. Manziel obviously does not.

Another thing that might make contribute to you feeling jaded is listen to Luck and Manziel interview. Luck is always talking about making himself and his team better, what "We" need to do to improve, how "I" need to play better for the team to win. Manziel is "I" and "Me".

Bortles is more interested in football? That's just silly. Can you give me proof that he has done anything more than Manziel to prepare for the season? Have you personally seen him staying in his house studying the playbook? Or are we just going to assume he is because TMZ isn't putting him on the front page everytime he walks out his front door?

So besides Bortles, who else do you believe will be more successful than Manziel?

Skootown · 07-03-2014, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror

I love how people still talk/think like this. Keeps all the focus on his cards and not other quarterbacks.

I'm confused.

You disagree?

ManInTheMirror · 07-03-2014, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

I'm confused.

You disagree?

Completely. I'm not knocking him he is a great player but to say "once in a generation talent" is so overblown it's not even funny.

legion624 · 07-03-2014, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror

Completely. I'm not knocking him he is a great player but to say "once in a generation talent" is so overblown it's not even funny.

To be honest though he is basically saying the same thing as every scout out there though. "He is the best QB prospect since Elway" was said more then once. Obviously that needs to translate to the field. In an article that was referenced in another thread on here yesterday a writer for ESPN interviewed NFL personnel (GMs, scouts, HCs) anonymously and had them rank the qbs. Luck was 5th in the league behind Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers and the last qb in Tier 1. So unless he either stops improving or gets worse in the near future I don't think it is overblown.

ManInTheMirror · 07-03-2014, 10:01 AM

Yes, I saw that list and it's a joke.

T1) Tom Brady
T1) Peyton Manning
T1) Aaron Rodgers
T1) Drew Brees
5) Andrew Luck
6) Philip Rivers
7) Ben Roethlisberger
T8) Tony Romo
T8) Matt Ryan
T8) Russell Wilson
T8) Eli Manning
12) Joe Flacco
13) Matthew Stafford
14) Colin Kaepernick

davdukes4 · 07-03-2014, 10:01 AM

He turned a 2-14 team into an 11-5 team his rookie year. He improved on that with an amazing come from behind play off win in his 2nd year. He had mediocre talent surrounding him on offense. Rodgers didn't even start until his 4th season. I don't know why people don't see where Luck is headed. Te writing is on the wall and there are still doubters. In 2-3 years when manning/Brady and Brees kick the bucket, it is going to be Rodgers and Luck as the cream of the crop elite qbs. At that point Rodgers will be 33. Luck will be 27....he could be the best qb in the league at that point....and still have not hit his peak.

Skootown · 07-03-2014, 10:01 AM

From what I've seen, Luck has done everything to back up the hype thus far.

Year 1: First QB to be taken #1 and take their team to the playoffs as a rookie

Year 2: Advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs

All while putting up great stats. I'd say it's hard to argue against the hype at this point.

davdukes4 · 07-03-2014, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror

Yes, I saw that list and it's a joke.

T1) Tom Brady
T1) Peyton Manning
T1) Aaron Rodgers
T1) Drew Brees
5) Andrew Luck
6) Philip Rivers
7) Ben Roethlisberger
T8) Tony Romo
T8) Matt Ryan
T8) Russell Wilson
T8) Eli Manning
12) Joe Flacco
13) Matthew Stafford
14) Colin Kaepernick

Let's see your list for the best qbs of 2014.

hreed2 · 07-03-2014, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwasian

the browns don't even believe in him, bortles is the day 1 starter in jacksonville, cleveland told johnny football to win the job and he's only the #2 QB taken, it's already hoyers job. unless he's going to miraculously become somebody he's not already he's going to struggle in the NFL and teams already know it. if teams believed in him he would have never been on the browns. 6 teams is "ALOT" to pass on you.

If the Browns didn't believe in him then they wouldn't have drafted him in the first round considering the circus that goes along with Manziel on their team. They just want him to earn the starting job so he has his teams respect instead of just handing it to him. Also, it's been widely reported that the plan with Bortles is for him to sit and learn behind Henne, he very well might end up being the day 1 starter but they've made it clear that it's not the plan. Just to clarify, I'm not saying Manziel will become a superstar or anything like that but I'm just saying that his draft status doesn't necessarily mean that scouts are low on him.

6 teams passing on somebody being a lot is debateable though. I wouldn't consider it a lot but by that logic then a lot of teams also passed on Justin Gilbert, Mike Evans, Anthony Barr, Eric Ebron etc. etc. and I don't think that's a fair statement.

ManInTheMirror · 07-03-2014, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davdukes4

Let's see your list for the best qbs of 2014.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers

Andrew Luck
Nick Foles
Cam Newton
Philip Rivers

Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Tony Romo
Matthew Stafford
Ben Roethlisberger
Robert Griffin III
Matt Ryan
Andy Dalton
Joe Flacco

Skootown · 07-03-2014, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers

Andrew Luck
Nick Foles
Cam Newton
Philip Rivers

Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Tony Romo
Matthew Stafford
Ben Roethlisberger
Robert Griffin III
Matt Ryan
Andy Dalton
Joe Flacco

So you have him ranked behind 4 QBs, all of which are future HOFers. Is that not good for a QB entering his 3rd season?

ManInTheMirror · 07-03-2014, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

So you have him ranked behind 4 QBs, all of which are future HOFers. Is that not good for a QB entering his 3rd season?

Yes, it's very good. But I also have enough faith in other QBs from his generation to not put him on the high pedestal you did with your comment. And my list is as of right now, meaning I believe after this season my list will more than likely change.

BirdLaw · 07-03-2014, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

From what I've seen, Luck has done everything to back up the hype thus far.

Year 1: First QB to be taken #1 and take their team to the playoffs as a rookie

Year 2: Advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs

All while putting up great stats. I'd say it's hard to argue against the hype at this point.

Career Passer Rating: 81.5
Career Completion Percentage: 57.0
Career YPA: 6.8

You know, "great stats"!

Skootown · 07-03-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdLaw

Career Passer Rating: 81.5
Career Completion Percentage: 57.0
Career YPA: 6.8

You know, "great stats"!

Andrew Luck after 2 years: 8196 yards, 46 TDs, 24 INTs, Rating 81.5

Peyton Manning after 2 years: 7874 yards, 52 TDs, 43 INTs, Rating 80.9

I'd say he's doing pretty well so far.

BirdLaw · 07-03-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

Andrew Luck after 2 years: 8196 yards, 46 TDs, 24 INTs, Rating 81.5

Peyton Manning after 2 years: 7874 yards, 52 TDs, 43 INTs, Rating 80.9

I'd say he's doing pretty well so far.

LOL, two completely different eras. Plus, Manning's stats are dragged don by his rookie year moreso than Luck's - his sophomore year was much more impressive. Even a random mediocre rookie can put up a rating well into the 70s these days.

In a modern context, Luck's early stats are closer to a Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton or Josh Freeman

Plus there's the matter of Luck leading the league in dropped interceptions as a rookie. That's not taken into account by those numbers.

pejc300 · 07-03-2014, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

Andrew Luck after 2 years: 8196 yards, 46 TDs, 24 INTs, Rating 81.5

Peyton Manning after 2 years: 7874 yards, 52 TDs, 43 INTs, Rating 80.9

I'd say he's doing pretty well so far.

And Russell Wilson after 2 years: 6,475 yards, 52 TD's, 19 INT's, rating 100.2

Things that make you go hmmmm....

Skootown · 07-03-2014, 02:52 PM

And yet not one GM in the NFL would take Wilson over Luck...

pejc300 · 07-03-2014, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

And yet not one GM in the NFL would take Wilson over Luck...

Correct. And most have zero rings.

Skootown · 07-03-2014, 02:59 PM

So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson?

Qwasian · 07-03-2014, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hreed2

6 teams passing on somebody being a lot is debateable though. I wouldn't consider it a lot but by that logic then a lot of teams also passed on Justin Gilbert, Mike Evans, Anthony Barr, Eric Ebron etc. etc. and I don't think that's a fair statement.

manziel has tebow 2.0 written all over him, watch...............he's not even as big & powerful as tebow was, he will probably be worse. if the scrambling doesn't translate immediately to the nfl he's done, because that's all his career was about at A&M

Qwasian · 07-03-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

And Russell Wilson after 2 years: 6,475 yards, 52 TD's, 19 INT's, rating 100.2

Things that make you go hmmmm....

way better team for wilson, and that makes all the difference.......... I think if you put wilson on the colts he might not even be playing right now......

after that comeback last year in the playoffs I don't think you'd convince me that any QB is better than andrew luck...... of course he has some issues to work through but if he ever gets a top level team around him he would crush any QB

I couldn't even imagine luck on the bronco's, he would be destroying the NFL

pejc300 · 07-03-2014, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson?

I believe that at the end of their careers Wilson will have more super bowl wins, and to me that's what it is all about. So yes, I'd rather have Russell Wilson. Just my opinion though, and I know I've re-ignited the age old argument, so I'll leave it be, but people conveniently seem to overlook Russell's numbers, which are better than both Luck and Manning at this point in their careers.

Qwasian · 07-03-2014, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejc300

I believe that at the end of their careers Wilson will have more super bowl wins, and to me that's what it is all about. So yes, I'd rather have Russell Wilson. Just my opinion though, and I know I've re-ignited the age old argument, so I'll leave it be, but people conveniently seem to overlook Russell's numbers, which are better than both Luck and Manning at this point in their careers.

I seriously doubt the seahawks put it together and go back to the superbowl anytime soon, that team/situation isn't built like that to repeat multiple times.

you are kinda talking about russell wilson being one of the best QB's ever to throw a football if he were to win multiple superbowls......... joe montana has 4 brady has 3. it's not reality to think wilson even has that type of team to do that.

BirdLaw · 07-03-2014, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skootown

So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson?

I sure would.

Name one "game manager" who put up great efficiency stats at the start of his career and did NOT become an elite quarterback over the long haul. You can't. Because the only ones to do it before the last few years are people like Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger. You can't find an example of a guy who had a hot start to his career because he was coddled, then failed when he had to step into a bigger role.

Russell Wilsons success has spawned the bizarre myth that having a great defense can artificially make a QB's stats look better. Uh, no. Most game manager put up terrible efficiency stats even when they have great defensive play. If this was really the case, I would love to know where all of that great quarterback play went back in our defense's heyday.

BirdLaw · 07-03-2014, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwasian

I seriously doubt the seahawks put it together and go back to the superbowl anytime soon, that team/situation isn't built like that to repeat multiple times.

you are kinda talking about russell wilson being one of the best QB's ever to throw a football if he were to win multiple superbowls......... joe montana has 4 brady has 3. it's not reality to think wilson even has that type of team to do that.

WTF is this? Of course it's reality, considering the fact that it literally just happened. Those players are still there, you know.

07-03-2014, 10:01 AM	#82
Skootown Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,806 skootown	From what I've seen, Luck has done everything to back up the hype thus far. Year 1: First QB to be taken #1 and take their team to the playoffs as a rookie Year 2: Advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs All while putting up great stats. I'd say it's hard to argue against the hype at this point. __________________ Allen Robinson Collector Also collecting Carson Wentz and Philadelphia Eagles, Penn State Nittany Lions, and Jameis Winston RCs

07-03-2014, 02:52 PM	#92
Skootown Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,806 skootown	And yet not one GM in the NFL would take Wilson over Luck... __________________ Allen Robinson Collector Also collecting Carson Wentz and Philadelphia Eagles, Penn State Nittany Lions, and Jameis Winston RCs

07-03-2014, 02:59 PM	#94
Skootown Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,806 skootown	So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson? __________________ Allen Robinson Collector Also collecting Carson Wentz and Philadelphia Eagles, Penn State Nittany Lions, and Jameis Winston RCs

07-03-2014, 10:01 AM	#80
ManInTheMirror Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 39,667	Yes, I saw that list and it's a joke. T1) Tom Brady T1) Peyton Manning T1) Aaron Rodgers T1) Drew Brees 5) Andrew Luck 6) Philip Rivers 7) Ben Roethlisberger T8) Tony Romo T8) Matt Ryan T8) Russell Wilson T8) Eli Manning 12) Joe Flacco 13) Matthew Stafford 14) Colin Kaepernick

07-03-2014, 10:01 AM	#81
davdukes4 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,099 davdukes4 usadave85	He turned a 2-14 team into an 11-5 team his rookie year. He improved on that with an amazing come from behind play off win in his 2nd year. He had mediocre talent surrounding him on offense. Rodgers didn't even start until his 4th season. I don't know why people don't see where Luck is headed. Te writing is on the wall and there are still doubters. In 2-3 years when manning/Brady and Brees kick the bucket, it is going to be Rodgers and Luck as the cream of the crop elite qbs. At that point Rodgers will be 33. Luck will be 27....he could be the best qb in the league at that point....and still have not hit his peak.