LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[the27guy]

I’m going to make 3-4 points directed at the questions asked of me and then probably ignore the thread for a day or two. Put in too much energy last night. Mostly towards answering questions that don’t really help anything.

1. The thing that I fail to understand is why people think I am defending Eric. I’ve said since the beginning that he might be guilty. We have no evidence that proves that he is 100% innocent or guilty. Judge for yourselves based on the thread. If he’s trimming and selling cards for huge profit then he literally should go to jail. I do not know if he’s guilty. How many times do I have to say this?

2. Abra, I believe Eric said that if he ever sells the cards he will let the person know they are altered. I can’t imagine that sending six figures in cards to grade is not expensive. He’s not trying to sell the cards so why would he be forced to spend a bunch of money to have them reslabbed? I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation.

3. Jay, I had to look up sycophant. That’s a good concern. Honestly, that’s a really smart thought. For everyone’s sake, what Jay is hypothethizing here is that I’m not throwing Eric under the bus because if the good it might do for me. Although that’s an understandable thought, I can assure you that it’s wrong. I’m particular about not overpaying and Eric doesn’t exactly have a rep for pricing cards on the cheap end. Probably the reason that I’ve only bought two. I generally think he’s kind and knowledgeable but the only thing that has brought me is the hours I’ve lost in this thread.

I don’t know what to say about you thinking that I act overly humble. I find arrogance to be the least attractive trait. I value those who see everyone as equals. In general people who think they are awesome, are not.

The top 100 thread was fun. But I actuallly have come to believe that showing your cards off a lot hurts their value - not the opposite. But I still do a card a day every day on IG because it’s fun. Just like the top 100 thread was.



Thanks again to those of you for the kind thoughts. I’m going to take a break again.

[tmar214]

It’s surprising that so many respected collectors would go back and consider doing business with someone who has potentially defrauded the community out of so much money. No wonder people are willing to deal in trimmed / altered cards. Their is 0 downside for them other than a thread on a forum. People will go on doing business with that person but be more cautious ? Is that some sort of joke.

Let’s face it these altered lebrons are going to end up back on the market at some point and someone who isn’t completely in the know is going to buy them. And why wouldn’t they. All the respected names in the hobby deal with bnc so he must be legitimate.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Chain, here you go.

Rookies, aka Jack, claimed that Eric (aka buynicecards or BNC) trimmed cards.

I called jack out and said that was a serious allocation.

Jack said that he took a pic before he sent the card to Eric and that he sent the card directly to Eric. The pic showed the card untrimmed. Jack posted pic for us to see. And we could see for certain that the card is trimmed.

I asked Eric via email what his story was. He said that he didn’t get the card from jack but from another guy named sohrob.

I told the forum that Eric said that that he got the card from someone other than jack and I wanted to hear from Jack whether that was accurate or if his previous statement that he got it from Eric was.

Lots of other stuff happened but ultimately jack came back and admitted that the card went to sohrob in between.

Jack says it was a three way deal. Eric vehemently denies that. Says he bought it directly from sohrob in a collection.

BNC (Eric) said he received LBJ RPA 87/99 in a collection in 2014 and "graded it promptly," though further research shows it was graded on April 24th of 2015.

People believe STRONGLY that the three were all involved together in having the card trimmed and sent to Beckett. This belief is largely born from triangulating several facts below and makes a lot of sense. Could be accurate. I am unsure.

1. Jack called Eric out on the card being trimmed before and acknowledged then that it was sent to someone between the two. Sohrob. Shoutout to needschapmans on the detective work.

2. Jack called Eric out again in this thread. Why would he do that if he were the trimmer?

3. Jack says he was going to get paid a grading bonus if the card graded as a 9 or grader which seems strange since he knew it was pretty imperfect to begin with.

These data points made many people believe the three were in it together.

Goodnight

Uh, you missed a pretty large piece of the story in your synopsis. I helped you out.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I’m going to make 3-4 points directed at the questions asked of me and then probably ignore the thread for a day or two. Put in too much energy last night. Mostly towards answering questions that don’t really help anything.

1. The thing that I fail to understand is why people think I am defending Eric. I’ve said since the beginning that he might be guilty. We have no evidence that proves that he is 100% innocent or guilty. Judge for yourselves based on the thread. If he’s trimming and selling cards for huge profit then he literally should go to jail. I do not know if he’s guilty. How many times do I have to say this?

2. Abra, I believe Eric said that if he ever sells the cards he will let the person know they are altered. I can’t imagine that sending six figures in cards to grade is not expensive. He’s not trying to sell the cards so why would he be forced to spend a bunch of money to have them reslabbed? I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation.

3. Jay, I had to look up sycophant. That’s a good concern. Honestly, that’s a really smart thought. For everyone’s sake, what Jay is hypothethizing here is that I’m not throwing Eric under the bus because if the good it might do for me. Although that’s an understandable thought, I can assure you that it’s wrong. I’m particular about not overpaying and Eric doesn’t exactly have a rep for pricing cards on the cheap end. Probably the reason that I’ve only bought two. I generally think he’s kind and knowledgeable but the only thing that has brought me is the hours I’ve lost in this thread.

I don’t know what to say about you thinking that I act overly humble. I find arrogance to be the least attractive trait. I value those who see everyone as equals. In general people who think they are awesome, are not.

The top 100 thread was fun. But I actuallly have come to believe that showing your cards off a lot hurts their value - not the opposite. But I still do a card a day every day on IG because it’s fun. Just like the top 100 thread was.



Thanks again to those of you for the kind thoughts. I’m going to take a break again.

You post ambiguous statements like these and you wonder why you're taking flak on this thread? DID HE OR DIDN'T HE?! THERE ARE TWO CHOICES!

[splum]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Uh, you missed a pretty large piece of the story in your synopsis. I helped you out.

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

You post ambiguous statements like these and you wonder why you're taking flak on this thread? DID HE OR DIDN'T HE?! THERE ARE TWO CHOICES!

Hey, serious question, and I realize by asking this I'm only contributing to the derailment of this thread which literally only benefits the bad guys in this story - who do you think you're helping when you post this garbage picking Adam apart? He's not the bad guy in the story here, under any circumstance.

[toews4mvp19]

Abra,

You've tried to call me out a couple times now since I stated I didn't want to be posting in this thread anymore as I felt there was nothing more to say on my behalf. I should of read the entire thread before posting, that was my bad. I will still say that Eric had NO involvement in the card being trimmed. That is what I believe to be true. You may feel the same or you may not.

Eric was and still is one of my closest friends. As I said before, he is one of the most honest guys I know in real life and in the hobby. Furthermore, I have no involvement in this situation as one person here tried to bring up. I don't collect LeBron and have little interest in his cards.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Jpayne7787

-Several high end cards were deemed trimmed
-27guy played the devils advocate
-people involved in the dealings of said high end cards were deemed frauds
-few people defended them/more crucified them
-27guy continued to play devils advocate
-fingers were pointed in every direction with no proof of anything
-since the parties involved went silent and the mob needed blood shed they turned to the 27guy
-OJ is a miserable guy
-Everybody is questioning everyone’s integrity and assasinating each other’s character
-after 39 pages only proof we have are that the Bron exquisites are trimmed


My only question is where would this thread be if the27guy never got involved in this thread? I couldn’t help but feel sorry for him many times throughout this thread

Why am I miserable? Im not the guy that alters cards. Im not the guy that buys and sells altered card. Im also not the guy supporting the guys that buy and sell altered cards.

Im just the guy that asked why a person would want to associate and deal with those who trade altered cards knowingly?

But if attacking me gets you into that social circle, Im glad I was of help for you.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by splum

Hey, serious question, and I realize by asking this I'm only contributing to the derailment of this thread which literally only benefits the bad guys in this story - who do you think you're helping when you post this garbage picking Adam apart? He's not the bad guy in the story here, under any circumstance.

I'm merely pointing out inaccuracies and ambiguities in his statements. I have nothing against him personally, nor do I know him. I'm unsure why you came after my posts considering there are much more personal attacks from other members on Adam. I do, however, believe he intentionally or not is helping to divert the blame from those who should bear it.

[JayConley]

Originally Posted by splum

Hey, serious question, and I realize by asking this I'm only contributing to the derailment of this thread which literally only benefits the bad guys in this story - who do you think you're helping when you post this garbage picking Adam apart? He's not the bad guy in the story here, under any circumstance.

Adam essentially made himself Eric's legal defense. Adam had shown, in the past, to always want the accused to defend themselves. Here, he wanted the accuser to defend himself first. That's a real glaring inconsistency. Adam is also an ambassador on the forum. If someone new stumbles in wanting to buy a high-end card and they see that Adam (with a spotless reputation) is dealing with these people, they might think it's safe when it really isn't.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Uh, you missed a pretty large piece of the story in your synopsis. I helped you out.

Yes. This BNC guy is a liar. Caught lying in this thread. Only one reason to lie.

[theLUCKYshow]

The problem here is 10+ guys continue to prosecute the27guy for being overly buddy-buddy with Eric. I think everyone gets it, and making the point originally was important. However at this point we're all beating a decomposed horse.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[JayConley]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

The problem here is 10+ guys continue to prosecute the27guy for being overly buddy-buddy with Eric. I think everyone gets it, and making the point originally was important. However at this point we're all beating a decomposed horse.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I wasn't trying to bring it back up. Adam said he would answer questions and also was feeling picked on, so that's why I chose to clarify my position.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by JayConley

I wasn't trying to bring it back up. Adam said he would answer questions and also was feeling picked on, so that's why I chose to clarify my position.

I understand. I'm not singling you or anyone out. I'm just saying the collective voice has made their point.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Eric said that if he ever sells the cards he will let the person know they are altered.

If he is not involved in the trimming as claimed. Then this is the route of action i would absolutely expect someone with integrity to take. Be open, upfront and don't wait for someone to ask.

Originally Posted by the27guy

I can’t imagine that sending six figures in cards to grade is not expensive. He’s not trying to sell the cards so why would he be forced to spend a bunch of money to have them reslabbed? I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation.

I agree he doesn't need to get it reslabbed if he's open about it being altered. In an ideal world - yes of course - but not doing it doesn't necessarily cast him in a bad light.

_____________________

As far as his involvement goes at this juncture. He has an altered card. He likely has more than one altered card. Wether involved or not, he and his business are smack dab in the middle of fraudulent behaviour. For his sake I hope he's taking an audit of his inventory and being very upfront about future sales.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by the27guy

2. Abra, I believe Eric said that if he ever sells the cards he will let the person know they are altered. I can’t imagine that sending six figures in cards to grade is not expensive. He’s not trying to sell the cards so why would he be forced to spend a bunch of money to have them reslabbed? I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation.

Did he actually say this anywhere? When I spoke to him he sounded reluctant to even acknowledge that it was 100% certain the cards were trimmed, and was very cagey when asked whether he would inform any future buyers that they were altered.

Even from talking to him on the phone, I did not get the impression from him that he is absolutely convinced that this is the right thing to do.

[ThoseBackPages]

he will tell the next buyer "It's a BGS 9"

[Deadshot]

Not that my opinion counts for much of anything, and I might have mentioned this already, but I think the owner needs to get the cards reslabbed.

With that being said, I emailed BGS to see if they would be willing to do so at no charge. They have not replied.

Leaving it up to potential future owners to be that transparent is irresponsible if you really want to promote this hobby.

And please take me off your email list. I never signed up for it and only started getting emails after this thread was created. I'm sure it's just a coincidence but it's weird nonetheless.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Eric reached out to me as well after I responded to his post and I actually had a chance to speak with him. I won't go into exact detail, but the conversation didn't really assuage any of the concerns I expressed in my post, ...but I can tell you I did not get the unequivocal -- "The cards are trimmed and if I ever sell them I will absolutely make sure they are clearly listed as trimmed because it's the right thing to do." --

That being said, Eric's situation would be challenging for anyone, and I can understand that he would be afraid to commit to any course of action with the stakes as high as they are.

The situation isn't 'challenging.' He owns altered & trimmed cards. He may have participated in the process. Regardless, the ONLY course of action to commit to w/r/t the LeBrons is one of either:

1) Never selling these RPAs, so doesn't matter the provenance,

2) Promise to put in the listing of my future sales/trades that I know these have been trimmed and show the side by side photos so bidders can be aware, and include a link to this thread.

Additionally, he must inform BGS of what has been going on, to do otherwise is to be complicit in a criminal conspiracy to defraud past & future buyers. [I know BGS has seen this thread by now, but he can give them first-hand information he has not shared here].

If he bought a card, and it arrived trimmed, then he knows who trimmed it, or he would return it to the guy who sold it to him for a refund -- after all, as others have pointed out, this is his business and he has receipts and emails and texts to prove the who, how much, when, his profits for the IRS, et al.

The only possible reason to keep such a trimmed card you bought is because you were complicit in the deal in some fashion. And we already know the dates and actions he stated don't match up to reality w/r/t date of grading.

Otherwise, demand your refund and/or expose the guy in court and subject him to criminal sanctions for fraud; and by doing so clear out ALL of the bad apples involved in this shady & unethical business practice.

[Jwhoops]

Eric’s reluctance to reveal the specifics of what happened is quite damning, there are only a handful of explanations for this and none of them make him look good. But I will admit im a bit surprised we haven’t seen anything else come up from this trimming ring.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

The situation isn't 'challenging.' He owns altered & trimmed cards.

I agree with what you're saying, but let me clarify. I genuinely do think anyone would be "challenged" by the discovery that they were sitting on 450k in trimmed cards (assuming he didn't know beforehand), but I still think people should be expected to do the right thing.

Unfortunately, I think Eric has chosen his words very carefully in order to avoid actually committing to doing the right thing, while simultaneously trying to imply he'll do the right thing in order to preserve his reputation. And again, when I spoke to him on the phone he seemed reluctant to even acknowledge that the cards were trimmed. At first it sounded like he wanted to leave open the possibility that they weren't trimmed, until I made it clear that I wasn't going to entertain that possibility.

But even then, he was very cagey about his future plans for the cards. The answers basically boiled down to "I don't know yet" or "I'll probably leave it to the auction house or BGS to decide what to do" etc. I reminded him that ethics exist independently of BGS and auction houses, and he should do the right thing regardless of what they tell him to do. He agreed, but still refused to commit to anything concrete about disclosing the trimming.

The refusal to commit to what is clearly the right course of action is damning to me as well, especially combined with the fact that he shows no interest in finding out who trimmed the cards. That's why I said I didn't come away from the conversation with any of my concerns alleviated. But the reason I ended the post the way I did was because I want to make it clear that there's a chance Eric may have had no involvement in the trimming and might eventually come around to doing the right thing. But otherwise I'm in firm agreement with you.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Did he actually say this anywhere? When I spoke to him he sounded reluctant to even acknowledge that it was 100% certain the cards were trimmed, and was very cagey when asked whether he would inform any future buyers that they were altered.

Even from talking to him on the phone, I did not get the impression from him that he is absolutely convinced that this is the right thing to do.

He never even came close to saying that.

Originally Posted by ebitz

It has always been my goal to hold these cards as long as I possibly could and I think owning them for 5 years supports that. I never had any real intention of selling them and I still do not. If the point comes where I want to sell them all I can say is that I will do my best to handle it as responsibly as possible. I understand the magnitude of these cards and the responsibility I have of owning these. I cannot predict the future, and at this point I cannot imagine selling them so it's hard to know how I may or may not go about it when that time comes. This is all I can really promise for now and hopefully it is found to be reasonable.

He's not going to disclose it.

[Deadshot]

Here is the best email I could find for BGS: grading@beckett.com

If you're not sure what to tell them, here's a sample you can copy and paste (or modify to your liking).

"Hello,
It has come to my attention that a couple of high end cards you graded were actually altered. The details and pictorial evidence can be found at the following link: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123

The current owner seems reluctant to resubmit them and add the proper/responsible "ALTERED" label to these historic cards.

Seeing as this was not an intentional error on the part of BGS, I feel like the company should work with the collector to add the appropriate label at little or no cost.

This, in my opinion, would be the most appropriate course of action for both parties at this time.

Thank you for your consideration"

[rats60]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

The situation isn't 'challenging.' He owns altered & trimmed cards. He may have participated in the process. Regardless, the ONLY course of action to commit to w/r/t the LeBrons is one of either:

1) Never selling these RPAs, so doesn't matter the provenance,

2) Promise to put in the listing of my future sales/trades that I know these have been trimmed and show the side by side photos so bidders can be aware, and include a link to this thread.

Additionally, he must inform BGS of what has been going on, to do otherwise is to be complicit in a criminal conspiracy to defraud past & future buyers. [I know BGS has seen this thread by now, but he can give them first-hand information he has not shared here].

If he bought a card, and it arrived trimmed, then he knows who trimmed it, or he would return it to the guy who sold it to him for a refund -- after all, as others have pointed out, this is his business and he has receipts and emails and texts to prove the who, how much, when, his profits for the IRS, et al.

The only possible reason to keep such a trimmed card you bought is because you were complicit in the deal in some fashion. And we already know the dates and actions he stated don't match up to reality w/r/t date of grading.

Otherwise, demand your refund and/or expose the guy in court and subject him to criminal sanctions for fraud; and by doing so clear out ALL of the bad apples involved in this shady & unethical business practice.

This is not true. Ken Kendrick bought a "trimmed" t206 Wagner for 2.8 million dollars. It has gone through several seller's between him and the person who "trimmed" it. He has no intention of returning and has turned down 10 million dollars for it.

As has been discussed in this thread, even trimmed a LeBron Exquisite RPA will sell for a lot. The owner has lost a lot of money because of this thread. Why is it so hard to believe that he still wants the card despite being trimmed? Why is it so hard to believe that he can still sell some day for more than he paid, even revealing the card is trimmed?

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by rats60

Why is it so hard to believe that he can still sell some day for more than he paid, even revealing the card is trimmed?

It's not hard to believe at all. I 100% he'd make a substantial profit selling it as altered. And i really hope he takes the high road and does reveal that information should he indeed sell it. At this point if he doesn't the buyer will find out eventually anyways.

[buybuymj]

Hello, Just registered here. I gave this info to one of guys here before but it seems he doesn't want to reveal it for some reason, I'll do it by myself.


I've been collecting 2003-04 LBJ Exquisite database since 2005, like this:


https://imageshack.com/a/img924/9351/fs6V83.png



Here's a proof:


https://imageshack.com/a/img922/3337/ICaqX7.png



And it shows I saved a photo of 87/99 in 2013, like this:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/2830/glgM5s.png



Here's the original image:


https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4057/a3QgAj.jpg



You guys figure it out.