2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[cnewby]

#4MoreYears

[jrinne17]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

[/B]





Not sure if joking or serious?

Serious

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Welp, off to work to help fund Trump's government....

Thank your for your service.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by jrinne17

Serious

[Jacquo1972]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Trump doesn't "put himself down" as a constant, daily liar, and yet he is one.
Marching with White Nationalists, one of whom shortly thereafter murdered a peaceful protester, is inexcusable.
Beyond that, a traitor like Robert E. Lee deserves no statues or anything at all named after him. Not in the USA. (Maybe in the CSA that still exists in many of your fevered dreams)

Even so, by his weasel words ("to them") in that statement, you can see Lee meant nothing to Trump. More likely Trump doesn't even know who he was, but it was another opportunity to pander to bigots, so off he went.
You know it, and I know it, and everybody knows it.

Welp, off to work to help fund Trump's government, which sadly includes Stephen Miller, the White Supremacist sympathizer (at a minimum) who writes our current immigration policy.

[TheFrenzy]

Question for whoever wants to tackle it: How should people approach voting?

- Should I vote "selfishly" according to my own personal interest?
- Should I vote "morally" according to my own personal convictions?
- Should I vote "altruistically" on behalf of everyone less fortunate than me?
- Should I vote "utopian-ly" in hopes of building a better society?
- Should I vote "pragmatically" or "strategically" for the lesser evil?
- Should I vote "ideally" with no concern for the final outcome?

(I see the altruistic approach as voting to correct specific injustices whereas the utopian approach is forward-looking and focused on creating a world where injustice is unlikely to happen.)

I ask because I wrestle with this constantly. I think it's strange how thoroughly we've indexed personal morality to voting. In fact, I'm still trying to find an ethical framework that seems to adequately address voting in a representative system. It seems like most of our religious and philosophical ethics are designed to guide your conduct if you are the one ruling or being ruled, but things get fuzzy when those boundaries are blurred through representative democracy. As a voter, I'm not the one in power, but the person I vote for could come to power as a result of my action.

It would be nice to dig up the dead philosophers and call back the prophets to get our religious/moral frameworks updated for modern democracy.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by jrinne17

Serious

Like that alternative site that said that pizza parlor was a front for a pedophilia ring?


Then some nut job went there with an assault rifle and was later sentenced to 4 years in prison?

[RedSoxFan28]

Don't watch Trevor Noah, but I enjoy when people do these type of interviews(to both sides).

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Question for whoever wants to tackle it: How should people approach voting?

- Should I vote "selfishly" according to my own personal interest?
- Should I vote "morally" according to my own personal convictions?
- Should I vote "altruistically" on behalf of everyone less fortunate than me?
- Should I vote "utopian-ly" in hopes of building a better society?
- Should I vote "pragmatically" or "strategically" for the lesser evil?
- Should I vote "ideally" with no concern for the final outcome?

(I see the altruistic approach as voting to correct specific injustices whereas the utopian approach is forward-looking and focused on creating a world where injustice is unlikely to happen.)

I ask because I wrestle with this constantly. I think it's strange how thoroughly we've indexed personal morality to voting. In fact, I'm still trying to find an ethical framework that seems to adequately address voting in a representative system. It seems like most of our religious and philosophical ethics are designed to guide your conduct if you are the one ruling or being ruled, but things get fuzzy when those boundaries are blurred through representative democracy. As a voter, I'm not the one in power, but the person I vote for could come to power as a result of my action.

It would be nice to dig up the dead philosophers and call back the prophets to get our religious/moral frameworks updated for modern democracy.

Vote for whoever you want for whatever reason you want. There's no "one size fits all measure".

I'd say the VAST majority of people who vote aren't necessarily voting FOR someone rather than voting AGAINST someone.

Everybody has their own pet issues:

-Immigration
-Healthcare
-Abortion
-Owning the Libs

Whatever you choose to vote for is okay by me. I personally just want my cost of living to go down. That's just me. No candidate in my lifetime has helped directly with that (almost an impossibility) so I don't think I've ever voted for a candidate who has won a race. Such is life. I'd settle for someone to legalize weed (would prefer all drugs but I guess weed is a start).

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I personally just want my cost of living to go down. That's just me. No candidate in my lifetime has helped directly with that (almost an impossibility) so I don't think I've ever voted for a candidate who has won a race. Such is life. I'd settle for someone to legalize weed (would prefer all drugs but I guess weed is a start).

Move into a smaller house and stop doing drugs. Solved.

[Soxfanguy]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Move into a smaller house and stop doing drugs. Solved.

Also voting to lower taxes could help

[Wade Mulroy]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Question for whoever wants to tackle it: How should people approach voting?

- Should I vote "selfishly" according to my own personal interest?
- Should I vote "morally" according to my own personal convictions?
- Should I vote "altruistically" on behalf of everyone less fortunate than me?
- Should I vote "utopian-ly" in hopes of building a better society?
- Should I vote "pragmatically" or "strategically" for the lesser evil?
- Should I vote "ideally" with no concern for the final outcome?

(I see the altruistic approach as voting to correct specific injustices whereas the utopian approach is forward-looking and focused on creating a world where injustice is unlikely to happen.)

I ask because I wrestle with this constantly. I think it's strange how thoroughly we've indexed personal morality to voting. In fact, I'm still trying to find an ethical framework that seems to adequately address voting in a representative system. It seems like most of our religious and philosophical ethics are designed to guide your conduct if you are the one ruling or being ruled, but things get fuzzy when those boundaries are blurred through representative democracy. As a voter, I'm not the one in power, but the person I vote for could come to power as a result of my action.

It would be nice to dig up the dead philosophers and call back the prophets to get our religious/moral frameworks updated for modern democracy.

I can’t necessarily speak for what “should” be the way people vote, but I probably fit in the “voting morally” camp.

My #1 issue that trumps everything else is abortion. I absolutely cannot and will not ever support a candidate that promotes this. I can relate and even agree with some things the Left suggest, but this is the biggest issue that keeps me from ever voting for many (if any) Democrats.

[Soxfanguy]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

I can’t necessarily speak for what “should” be the way people vote, but I probably fit in the “voting morally” camp.

My #1 issue that trumps everything else is abortion. I absolutely cannot and will not ever support a candidate that promotes this. I can relate and even agree with some things the Left suggest, but this is the biggest issue that keeps me from ever voting for many (if any) Democrats.

That and guns seems to be the things that are people's number one issues

[Soxfanguy]

The big thing for me is taxes

[Timmay]

[QUOTE=RedSoxFan28;15538534]Don't watch Trevor Noah, but I enjoy when people do these type of interviews(to both sides).

Not a fan either but this was great.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oxfzabpTWY

[Scottish Punk]

It is true that many voters are one issue voters - Abortion, Guns, Taxes, Climate Change, Healthcare.

The tough thing is politicians will change their stance on these issues depending on polling data. Trump was Pro Choice for the longest time, then recently to "Hate Abortions, but wouldn't change the law". Now that is has flipped from being a Democrat to commandeering the republican party, he tows the partly line of Pro Life.

Bernie has driven other democrats to a further left position on Healthcare, taxes, etc. It will be interesting to see how the more moderate Dems do in these elections. I don't think most people are in favor of going full Socialist leanings that Bernie espouses. There is a reason is support seems hard capped for the most point.

[Soxfanguy]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

It is true that many voters are one issue voters - Abortion, Guns, Taxes, Climate Change, Healthcare.

The tough thing is politicians will change their stance on these issues depending on polling data. Trump was Pro Choice for the longest time, then recently to "Hate Abortions, but wouldn't change the law". Now that is has flipped from being a Democrat to commandeering the republican party, he tows the partly line of Pro Life.

Bernie has driven other democrats to a further left position on Healthcare, taxes, etc. It will be interesting to see how the more moderate Dems do in these elections. I don't think most people are in favor of going full Socialist leanings that Bernie espouses. There is a reason is support seems hard capped for the most point.

Dems are driving themselves off a cliff with going so far left

Look at Obama. He was popular because he was fairly close to the center.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Move into a smaller house and stop doing drugs. Solved.

Not exactly what I'm talking about, but okay....

Originally Posted by Soxfanguy

Also voting to lower taxes could help

This is short sighted IMO. I care about the purchasing power of my money, not necessarily how much I make.

Trump cut my tax bill roughly 3%, but the cost of everything around me continued to rise. I would have taken high taxes if it could suppress the cost of goods.

Healthcare is a prime example. With what I pay in premiums, co-pays, and deductibles a year I'd rather just have medicare for all and pay higher taxes, as I'd likely have more money in my pocket at the end of the year. This obviously varies where you fall on the socioeconomic ladder.

[Soxfanguy]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Not exactly what I'm talking about, but okay....



This is short sighted IMO. I care about the purchasing power of my money, not necessarily how much I make.

Trump cut my tax bill roughly 3%, but the cost of everything around me continued to rise. I would have taken high taxes if it could suppress the cost of goods.

Healthcare is a prime example. With what I pay in premiums, co-pays, and deductibles a year I'd rather just have medicare for all and pay higher taxes, as I'd likely have more money in my pocket at the end of the year. This obviously varies where you fall on the socioeconomic ladder.

I do think health care is too expensive but I'm not sure how a government run program would work

[Timmay]

Government healthcare.

https://twitter.com/BasedPoland/stat...51143991365633

[Soxfanguy]

I know it's Twitter, but #BloombergIsRacist is trending on Twitter

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/blo...stop-and-frisk

"Ninety-five percent of murders- murderers and murder victims fit one M.O. You can just take a description, Xerox it, and pass it out to all the cops," he said. "They are male, minorities, 16-25. That's true in New York, that's true in virtually every city (inaudible). And that's where the real crime is. You've got to get the guns out of the hands of people that are getting killed."

That's not a pretty quote

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by Soxfanguy

Dems are driving themselves off a cliff with going so far left

Look at Obama. He was popular because he was fairly close to the center.

Agree completely, I hate Trump and would never vote for him. If it came down to Trump vs Bernie, I would go 3rd party again. Even knowing that people like me who did this last time caused Trump to eek out wins in the swing states.

Remember Obama was painted has a crazy socialist from all the right wing talk shows and pundits. Turns out, like you said, he was pretty darn moderate in most areas. His foreign policy was no different than G W Bush.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Soxfanguy

I do think health care is too expensive but I'm not sure how a government run program would work

To be honest I don't think anybody can quite answer that.

My grandparents are on Medicare and love it though. I don't mind my current healthcare (getting referrals and dropping $25 on the co-pay is annoying though) it's just financially crushing. I've got roughly 25% of my income going to just the healthcare premiums for my family of 3. Well over that amount when I add in co-pays and deductibles.

Since healthcare is my biggest expense yearly I'd likely trade it for a Medicare For All program. You could increase my tax burden a pretty hefty amount and I'd still come out ahead.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I caught that too. No words so I let it be. I am going to go and see what the current body count of Hillary is now.

[Soxfanguy]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

To be honest I don't think anybody can quite answer that.

My grandparents are on Medicare and love it though. I don't mind my current healthcare (getting referrals and dropping $25 on the co-pay is annoying though) it's just financially crushing. I've got roughly 25% of my income going to just the healthcare premiums for my family of 3. Well over that amount when I add in co-pays and deductibles.

Since healthcare is my biggest expense yearly I'd likely trade it for a Medicare For All program. You could increase my tax burden a pretty hefty amount and I'd still come out ahead.

That's a interesting point