Topps out---Fanatics in - Page 42

WaxPax · 08-20-2021, 04:33 AM

jhssketchcards · 08-20-2021, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anusinha

Topps still controls the copyrights for all of their IP. So Fanatics cant use Topps' designs or brands unless they buy them out or lease them.

If Fanatics were smart they would strike some kind of deal to buy and use Topps name on cards, ie Upper Deck when they made Fleer stuff. This would do two things: Fanatics would have control of the market and name brand recognition. Imagine if you still saw the Topps lineup or product but copyright lingo would say Fanatics. I think we actually may see them but Topps because an can’t see Topps surviving on Garbage Pail Kids, Soccer and Star Wars.

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BaseballKing · 08-20-2021, 05:10 AM

Exclusive Licences are not a good thing but what if only one company has them for all 4 sports? That can not be a good thing even if they continue the brand names: Topps Bowman, Prizm, Select, etc. Thankfully 4 years is a long time away. Lots of water to go under the bridge so to speak.

Sheepdog104 · 08-20-2021, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnewby

still up 5% today...

depends on when you bought in...

JrFinest · 08-20-2021, 05:29 AM

Glad I decided to buy only tobacco cards earlier this year.

Its a shame.

JeremyNick · 08-20-2021, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JrFinest

Glad I decided to buy only tobacco cards earlier this year.

Its a shame.

Half the hobby went back to tobacco yesterday.

Paderborn1907 · 08-20-2021, 06:02 AM

What will be the situation from 2023 onwards for Topps Cards with MLB license and no MLBPA license?

It’s clear that Panini will be gone for Baseball MLBPA and replaced by Fanatics (since they have the exclusive), but will Topps still be allowed to use player names and pictures for the MLB players?

monkeymcgee · 08-20-2021, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paderborn1907

What will be the situation from 2023 onwards for Topps Cards with MLB license and no MLBPA license?

It’s clear that Panini will be gone for Baseball MLBPA and replaced by Fanatics (since they have the exclusive), but will Topps still be allowed to use player names and pictures for the MLB players?

My armchair analysis is they can’t use NIL for current players. Not sure about the retired players.

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ClipsandVols · 08-20-2021, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

My armchair analysis is they can’t use NIL for current players. Not sure about the retired players.

I'd say this is correct but someone like cavaliercards may know a little better. I would think anything after 2023 by Topps would have to be retired players/prospects that aren't in the MLBPA/buyback sets

kkart · 08-20-2021, 06:21 AM

Show me something that seemed innocent 4 months ago but now doesn't seem so innocent.

From April. If something semms bad it's usually because it's rotten.

pewe · 08-20-2021, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviswr7

Does Topps baseball have a single leg to stand on here in this saga? Any “hand”
At all???

Strategic options discussed further up in the thread

Topps could theoretically focus on owning all the best players via exclusive 1:1 agreements. Fanatics can’t afford to match (or they do, and further increase their cost), and thus bankrupts Fanatics because they are left with the dregs for 10x the cost that Topps paid for everyone.

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hammertime · 08-20-2021, 06:26 AM

Very interesting with the timing of Topps going public...would be interesting to follow the money and see who's made a killing...there's no way there wasn't some inside info flying around.

monkeymcgee · 08-20-2021, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammertime

Very interesting with the timing of Topps going public...would be interesting to follow the money and see who's made a killing...there's no way there wasn't some inside info flying around.

Just yesterday was a great example. Seems like a classic case of pushing it up to get out before the dump.

ClipsandVols · 08-20-2021, 06:44 AM

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=446

"Mudrick Capital Acquisition Corporation II Announces Termination of Merger Agreement for Business Combination with The Topps Company"

Triple B · 08-20-2021, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipsandVols

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=446

"Mudrick Capital Acquisition Corporation II Announces Termination of Merger Agreement for Business Combination with The Topps Company"

Fanatics will buy Topps outright.

No way there’s no continuity to the brands collectors all know and love. I’m guessing that Topps and possibly Upper Deck gets scooped by Fanatics.

CKIM · 08-20-2021, 06:51 AM

Methink this is clever backdoor maneuver by Leagues owners to acquire Topps on cheap. There's plenty of time to 2026 for Topps stock to tank $4/5 (?) then swoop in and bring it under Leagues owners ownerships. The Topps brand equity and historical signifance is probably worth $billion dollar alone.

ClipsandVols · 08-20-2021, 06:57 AM

Lots of bad analogies on the board this week with this news and the PWCC news. Here's one that I think is pretty spot on...@GeechQuest

After sleeping on it and thinking, this really is reminiscent of when Vince McMahon took over all the small wrestling territories and unified the wrestling world under WWF/WWE.

Obviously good and bad has come of that from the wrestling world, but the one thing he was able to do is turn a bunch of little thiefdoms into an international wrestling kingdom. It’s called the WWE Universe for a reason.

The current hobby structure is basically just a bunch of tiny, independent businesses and because of this their lacks uniformity and real oversight. It’s the Wild West. These tiny conglomerates benefit from keeping the hobby in the stone ages and making their baby cut of revenue from the machine. This Fanatics deal should change that.

We have a hobby that is potentially worth billions of dollars being held down to millions because it benefits the old guard legacy systems at play.

I’m sure Fanatics see’s, the same way many do, what the hobby could truly be worth with a little innovation and consolidation.

It’s a double edged sword obviously. Fanatics, should they be interested in ever producing cards, will likely want to be volume of product at low prices. Think how Amazon works. The current hobby structure is predicated on purposefully controlling supply and massaging demand and pricing. Big business doesn’t do this.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=97

wensel888 · 08-20-2021, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodlegrass

I love the hate from people who don’t understand the behind the scenes work into procuring things like this - it’s not the 80s anymore - not only are the unions more demanding but athletes also are way more concerned with image than ever before and that comes at a premium more often than not.
Keep it coming though!

Well with the way you are carrying on like a douchecanoe this could be a brutal time in the hobby for a lot of people if Fanatics operates like how you carry yourself

pewe · 08-20-2021, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipsandVols

Lots of bad analogies on the board this week with this news and the PWCC news. Here's one that I think is pretty spot on...@GeechQuest

After sleeping on it and thinking, this really is reminiscent of when Vince McMahon took over all the small wrestling territories and unified the wrestling world under WWF/WWE.

Obviously good and bad has come of that from the wrestling world, but the one thing he was able to do is turn a bunch of little thiefdoms into an international wrestling kingdom. It’s called the WWE Universe for a reason.

The current hobby structure is basically just a bunch of tiny, independent businesses and because of this their lacks uniformity and real oversight. It’s the Wild West. These tiny conglomerates benefit from keeping the hobby in the stone ages and making their baby cut of revenue from the machine. This Fanatics deal should change that.

We have a hobby that is potentially worth billions of dollars being held down to millions because it benefits the old guard legacy systems at play.

I’m sure Fanatics see’s, the same way many do, what the hobby could truly be worth with a little innovation and consolidation.

It’s a double edged sword obviously. Fanatics, should they be interested in ever producing cards, will likely want to be volume of product at low prices. Think how Amazon works. The current hobby structure is predicated on purposefully controlling supply and massaging demand and pricing. Big business doesn’t do this.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=97

This sounds like a horrible analogy. Maybe it would work if you were talking junk wax era.

In fact, Topps is Vince in your analogy. They aggregated 90%+ of the hobby from a messy past with tons of small brands all of which were economically unsustainable after the last CBA disaster.

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base set · 08-20-2021, 07:08 AM

“Topps” is a brand name. It matters zero to the baseball card in hand what kind of corporate ownership structure or name ultimately gets the profit from the creation of that card.

Collectors showed pretty clearly over the last year (and prior) that they didn’t care about the price of the cards, by routinely buying them at 2x MSRP, and more money _could_ be flowing to the players associations instead of middlemen. So Topps Chrome MSRP just went from $20 to $30 and now this. Card prices will continue to rise on the front end until more middle men are squeezed out.

2010GBPackers · 08-20-2021, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipsandVols

Lots of bad analogies on the board this week with this news and the PWCC news. Here's one that I think is pretty spot on...@GeechQuest

After sleeping on it and thinking, this really is reminiscent of when Vince McMahon took over all the small wrestling territories and unified the wrestling world under WWF/WWE.

Obviously good and bad has come of that from the wrestling world, but the one thing he was able to do is turn a bunch of little thiefdoms into an international wrestling kingdom. It’s called the WWE Universe for a reason.

The current hobby structure is basically just a bunch of tiny, independent businesses and because of this their lacks uniformity and real oversight. It’s the Wild West. These tiny conglomerates benefit from keeping the hobby in the stone ages and making their baby cut of revenue from the machine. This Fanatics deal should change that.

We have a hobby that is potentially worth billions of dollars being held down to millions because it benefits the old guard legacy systems at play.

I’m sure Fanatics see’s, the same way many do, what the hobby could truly be worth with a little innovation and consolidation.

It’s a double edged sword obviously. Fanatics, should they be interested in ever producing cards, will likely want to be volume of product at low prices. Think how Amazon works. The current hobby structure is predicated on purposefully controlling supply and massaging demand and pricing. Big business doesn’t do this.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=97

Man, GeechQuest nails it again. It'll be bumpy for a bit, but anyone who thought that plowing over grandmas to score Target blasters in order to sell to their LCS was the future may want to reconsider their post-COVID employment plan. The hobby is about to change dramatically. Get ready.

Oh, and PWCC ain't going anywhere either. Like it or not, our hobby is about to be commercialized and sold to the masses again. That's actually a good thing if you think about it.

ClipsandVols · 08-20-2021, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

This sounds like a horrible analogy. Maybe it would work if you were talking junk wax era.

In fact, Topps is Vince in your analogy. They aggregated 90%+ of the hobby from a messy past with tons of small brands all of which were economically unsustainable after the last CBA disaster.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the broader picture of what was announced yesterday, I think it fits. Topps doesn't have rights with the NBPA/NFLPA. Fanatics does now and will probably end up with the NBA/NFL rights too.

pewe · 08-20-2021, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipsandVols

In the broader picture of what was announced yesterday, I think it fits. Topps doesn't have rights with the NBPA/NFLPA. Fanatics does now and will probably end up with the NBA/NFL rights too.

If you want to pull them in, then it’s like Vince founding the XFL to fit next to WWE… adjacent businesses that got limited value from each other

Or would be like the “champion football league”, or whatever they wanted to call it, bringing the top teams from European Football League. Which was torpedoed

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JRX · 08-20-2021, 07:23 AM

The problem with the Vince analogy is that while wrestling did get bigger than it ever was, it's dead now.

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ClipsandVols · 08-20-2021, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRX

The problem with the Vince analogy is that while wrestling did get bigger than it ever was, it's dead now.

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You don't think cards in 20+ years could end up being a watered down "corporate" product?

08-20-2021, 06:21 AM	#1035
kkart Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Denver Posts: 388 kustomkultureart	Show me something that seemed innocent 4 months ago but now doesn't seem so innocent. From April. If something semms bad it's usually because it's rotten. __________________ Follow me on Twitter! @t_vguy Helping new collectors in the hobby & those just returning to it. If you have questions hit me up on there

08-20-2021, 06:44 AM	#1039
ClipsandVols Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 3,757 ClipsandVols	https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=446 "Mudrick Capital Acquisition Corporation II Announces Termination of Merger Agreement for Business Combination with The Topps Company" __________________ I don’t expect apologies because I know there is too much ego and pride in the human race- Gabriel Seraf

08-20-2021, 06:57 AM	#1042
ClipsandVols Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 3,757 ClipsandVols	Lots of bad analogies on the board this week with this news and the PWCC news. Here's one that I think is pretty spot on...@GeechQuest After sleeping on it and thinking, this really is reminiscent of when Vince McMahon took over all the small wrestling territories and unified the wrestling world under WWF/WWE. Obviously good and bad has come of that from the wrestling world, but the one thing he was able to do is turn a bunch of little thiefdoms into an international wrestling kingdom. It’s called the WWE Universe for a reason. The current hobby structure is basically just a bunch of tiny, independent businesses and because of this their lacks uniformity and real oversight. It’s the Wild West. These tiny conglomerates benefit from keeping the hobby in the stone ages and making their baby cut of revenue from the machine. This Fanatics deal should change that. We have a hobby that is potentially worth billions of dollars being held down to millions because it benefits the old guard legacy systems at play. I’m sure Fanatics see’s, the same way many do, what the hobby could truly be worth with a little innovation and consolidation. It’s a double edged sword obviously. Fanatics, should they be interested in ever producing cards, will likely want to be volume of product at low prices. Think how Amazon works. The current hobby structure is predicated on purposefully controlling supply and massaging demand and pricing. Big business doesn’t do this. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=97 __________________ I don’t expect apologies because I know there is too much ego and pride in the human race- Gabriel Seraf

08-20-2021, 04:33 AM	#1026
WaxPax Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: The Land of always Baseball...Sunny Florida Posts: 646 WaxPax WaxPax

08-20-2021, 05:10 AM	#1028
BaseballKing Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: I got banned from BO/God bless you all Posts: 1,941	Exclusive Licences are not a good thing but what if only one company has them for all 4 sports? That can not be a good thing even if they continue the brand names: Topps Bowman, Prizm, Select, etc. Thankfully 4 years is a long time away. Lots of water to go under the bridge so to speak.

08-20-2021, 05:29 AM	#1030
JrFinest Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,117 jrfinest_cards	Glad I decided to buy only tobacco cards earlier this year. Its a shame.

08-20-2021, 06:02 AM	#1032
Paderborn1907 Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 546	What will be the situation from 2023 onwards for Topps Cards with MLB license and no MLBPA license? It’s clear that Panini will be gone for Baseball MLBPA and replaced by Fanatics (since they have the exclusive), but will Topps still be allowed to use player names and pictures for the MLB players?

08-20-2021, 06:26 AM	#1037
hammertime Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: OH->MI->MD->VA Posts: 6,835	Very interesting with the timing of Topps going public...would be interesting to follow the money and see who's made a killing...there's no way there wasn't some inside info flying around.

08-20-2021, 06:51 AM	#1041
CKIM Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 18	Methink this is clever backdoor maneuver by Leagues owners to acquire Topps on cheap. There's plenty of time to 2026 for Topps stock to tank $4/5 (?) then swoop in and bring it under Leagues owners ownerships. The Topps brand equity and historical signifance is probably worth $billion dollar alone.

08-20-2021, 07:08 AM	#1045
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,465	“Topps” is a brand name. It matters zero to the baseball card in hand what kind of corporate ownership structure or name ultimately gets the profit from the creation of that card. Collectors showed pretty clearly over the last year (and prior) that they didn’t care about the price of the cards, by routinely buying them at 2x MSRP, and more money _could_ be flowing to the players associations instead of middlemen. So Topps Chrome MSRP just went from $20 to $30 and now this. Card prices will continue to rise on the front end until more middle men are squeezed out.

08-20-2021, 07:23 AM	#1049
JRX Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 15,791	The problem with the Vince analogy is that while wrestling did get bigger than it ever was, it's dead now. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk