Former Mizzou Michael Sam comes out of the closet

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by corndog

knowing it is wrong.

"knowing" is subjective, not objective, and that's where this all gets messy. For someone like you who was taught the Bible/read the Bible a certain way, homosexuality is an objective wrong. There are other religious individuals who read the Bible differently and do not view it as condemning homosexuality as an objective wrong. And then there are non-religious folk like me who just view it as a part of life without religion attached.

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by corndog

Not really much to discuss there - you can do better than that.

I have to go into work tomorrow, but the bible says I shouldn't work on the Sabbath.

Are you against that?

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by corndog

I do see his point in that regard. Knowing that many of the owners are Christians, they probably will not choose him because Sam is open about his sexuality. There is a difference in those who are open and think it's right and those who keep it quiet and struggle with it. He may not get drafted at all.

It's just a shame is all. I mean, some of the things that affect draft choices (or even worse don't affect draft choices) are sins as well, some even on the Ten Commandments level. How come some sins are okay and another sin isn't?

Especially since some of those sins (like in the case of sexual assault or regular assault or drug abuse) are unarguably sinful versus homosexuality which is obviously a mixed issue.

[MLH]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

I have to go into work tomorrow, but the bible says I shouldn't work on the Sabbath.

Are you against that?

The Sabbath is time and a quarter for me, God also wants me to provide for my family.

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by corndog

Not really much to discuss there - you can do better than that.

So why not tell me the flaws?


Why make a vague post that says nothing, unless you don't know how to respond to it?

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

I have to go into work tomorrow, but the bible says I shouldn't work on the Sabbath.

Are you against that?

Hmm....wonder if corndog has ever sold cards on here or ebay on sunday.

that could potentially constitute work, no?

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by MLH

The Sabbath is time and a quarter for me, God also wants me to provide for my family.

Does he though? I think he might need you to worship him tomorrow.

[Jackg1980]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Very true!

Which unfortunately is why a lot of this stuff will never fully go away. It's passed on from generation to generation.

A lot of people can not help to be religious and follow the Bible for many reasons. Some witness miracles themselves and or experience the Holy Spirit. Some seen angels and had other experiences that science or anyone can explain. These experiences are proof Jesus is real and the Bible is the word of truth. There is nothing one can say to them to make them throw that experience away. No amount of scientific evidence would be enough to change their minds. A lot of people do not understand that here. And if you yourself experience a true miracle you may also want to pass that belief down to your children.

[1eyed_jack]

Wait, so God wants you to provide for your family, but not work on Sundays.

So if you NEED to work on Sundays you can, because he wants you to provide.


Likewise.

The bible preaches to love everyone, no?
It also says that homosexuality is a sin.

Those contradict each other, yet you're sticking with the option that leads against homosexuality.

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by Jackg1980

A lot of people can not help to be religious and follow the Bible for many reasons. Some witness miracles themselves and or experience the Holy Spirit. Some seen angels and had other experiences that science or anyone can explain. These experiences are proof Jesus is real and the Bible is the word of truth. There is nothing one can say to them to make them throw that experience away. No amount of scientific evidence would be enough to change their minds. A lot of people do not understand that here. And if you yourself experience a true miracle you may also want to pass that belief down to your children.

No...

A lot of people follow what THEY WANT to follow from the bible. If everything from the bible was followed, the world would be a very different place.

People pick and choose what they want to follow and that is the main issue I have with people being against gay marriage for religious reasons because "the bible said so".

The bible says a lot of things that nobody has issues with breaking, but this one is so touchy. Why?

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by Jackg1980

A lot of people can not help to be religious and follow the Bible for many reasons. Some witness miracles themselves and or experience the Holy Spirit. Some seen angels and had other experiences that science or anyone can explain. These experiences are proof Jesus is real and the Bible is the word of truth. There is nothing one can say to them to make them throw that experience away. No amount of scientific evidence would be enough to change their minds. A lot of people do not understand that here. And if you yourself experience a true miracle you may also want to pass that belief down to your children.

And some see what they want to see and believe it is what they want to believe it is.

[SpastikMooss]

..................

[corndog]

Originally Posted by SpastikMooss

"knowing" is subjective, not objective, and that's where this all gets messy. For someone like you who was taught the Bible/read the Bible a certain way, homosexuality is an objective wrong. There are other religious individuals who read the Bible differently and do not view it as condemning homosexuality as an objective wrong. And then there are non-religious folk like me who just view it as a part of life without religion attached.

Knowing wasn't a good choice of a word - maybe "believing". There are those who struggle with it. It's not the openly gay people. It is the ones who are back and forth between liking both sexes, ones that are married, and others. Remember, it is not the thoughts that Christians believe is sin, it is the actions. No different than married men and women having thoughts of infidelity or someone who is thinking about stealing or murder or corrupting a child, etc.
The openly gay are the ones pushing for equality. That is a lifestyle choice that Christians oppose on biblical grounds.

[Jackg1980]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

No...

A lot of people follow what THEY WANT to follow from the bible. If everything from the bible was followed, the world would be a very different place.

People pick and choose what they want to follow and that is the main issue I have with people being against gay marriage for religious reasons because "the bible said so".

The bible says a lot of things that nobody has issues with breaking, but this one is so touchy. Why?

Christians are admitted sinners and no one follows the Bible to the T all day everyday. I understand what you are saying. You should see what it says about divorce. But you can not say hey since you do not follow this part then you should not follow any part especially the ones I do not want you to. People also interpret the Bible differently.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by SpastikMooss

It's just a shame is all. I mean, some of the things that affect draft choices (or even worse don't affect draft choices) are sins as well, some even on the Ten Commandments level. How come some sins are okay and another sin isn't?

Especially since some of those sins (like in the case of sexual assault or regular assault or drug abuse) are unarguably sinful versus homosexuality which is obviously a mixed issue.

Bob McNair, the owner of the Texans, catches grief due to his unwillingness to draft or sign players with a "bad" history. If I were an owner, I wouldn't want players on my team that were of known bad character. He has quickly rid the team of players who got into trouble. If Sam was still in the closet (I hate that term) and let me know that he was having problems and wanted me to know, I wouldn't hold it against him because we are all sinners. Sam being open about it changes things. He sees nothing wrong with it.

Edit: The players with multiple baby mommas is pathetic to me - I really feel for the kids.

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by corndog

Bob McNair, the owner of the Texans, catches grief due to his unwillingness to draft or sign players with a "bad" history. If I were an owner, I wouldn't want players on my team that were of known bad character. He has quickly rid the team of players who got into trouble. If Sam was still in the closet (I hate that term) and let me know that he was having problems and wanted me to know, I wouldn't hold it against him because we are all sinners. Sam being open about it changes things. He sees nothing wrong with it.

Nor should he see anything wrong with it.

So Sam should be classified with the players who bully, beat-up, rape, steal, and cheat in college?

I don't think "being gay" is a character flaw, nor should he even be mentioned with any of those other players.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

No...

A lot of people follow what THEY WANT to follow from the bible. If everything from the bible was followed, the world would be a very different place.

People pick and choose what they want to follow and that is the main issue I have with people being against gay marriage for religious reasons because "the bible said so".

The bible says a lot of things that nobody has issues with breaking, but this one is so touchy. Why?

Because the agenda of homosexuals is equality as if there is nothing wrong with it. They are enmeshed in sin and see nothing wrong with it.
Change it to a different sin: What if thieves wanted to push the agenda that nothing belongs to anyone and they have the right to take whatever they want whenever they want it and you should let them. Would you be OK with that?
Gee, that sounds like our government...

[corndog]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

Nor should he see anything wrong with it.

So Sam should be classified with the players who bully, beat-up, rape, steal, and cheat in college?
I don't think "being gay" is a character flaw, nor should he even be mentioned with any of those other players.

Biblically, yes.

[corndog]

Yes, I sell cards on Ebay on Sunday and every once in a while may work on Sunday.

I also teach 1st graders every Sunday.

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by corndog

Yes, I sell cards on Ebay on Sunday and every once in a while may work on Sunday.

I also teach 1st graders every Sunday.

So again, picking and choosing which parts of the bible to follow.

You CHOOSE to work on Sundays which goes against the bible.

You can just as easily choose to be open to homosexuals, but you don't, which says your dislike of homosexuality isn't religion based, it's based on your own personal views.

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by corndog

Because the agenda of homosexuals is equality as if there is nothing wrong with it. They are enmeshed in sin and see nothing wrong with it.
Change it to a different sin: What if thieves wanted to push the agenda that nothing belongs to anyone and they have the right to take whatever they want whenever they want it and you should let them. Would you be OK with that?
Gee, that sounds like our government...

Because being a homosexual doesn't HURT anyone. Just like working on the Sabbath doesn't HURT anyone. Which is why people work on the Sabbath and most don't care. There are many laws and regulations that people don't follow in the bible because they just no longer make sense.

What people need to understand is that the world doesn't revolve around them. If something doesn't affect you personally or hurts someone else, what is the problem?

If two gay people got married, would you be harmed? Would your life be affected in any way negatively?

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

Nor should he see anything wrong with it.

So Sam should be classified with the players who bully, beat-up, rape, steal, and cheat in college?

I don't think "being gay" is a character flaw, nor should he even be mentioned with any of those other players.

Originally Posted by corndog

Biblically, yes.

[WCTYSON]

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor arsenokoite nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

arsenokoite - interpreted as pedophilia

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

Because being a homosexual doesn't HURT anyone. Just like working on the Sabbath doesn't HURT anyone. Which is why people work on the Sabbath and most don't care. There are many laws and regulations that people don't follow in the bible because they just no longer make sense.

What people need to understand is that the world doesn't revolve around them. If something doesn't affect you personally or hurts someone else, what is the problem?

If two gay people got married, would you be harmed? Would your life be affected in any way negatively?

Exactly. Like I mentioned before, I'm watching House of Cards right now, but I could just as easily be having sex with another man.

The two don't seem to have much in common, but what they do have in common is that neither directly affects anyone else in the world. And certainly not Corndog.

However, one of those things he has a problem with, the other, he doesn't.

[MeteoriteGuy]

Originally Posted by corndog

Because the agenda of homosexuals is equality as if there is nothing wrong with it. They are enmeshed in sin and see nothing wrong with it.
Change it to a different sin: What if thieves wanted to push the agenda that nothing belongs to anyone and they have the right to take whatever they want whenever they want it and you should let them. Would you be OK with that?
Gee, that sounds like our government...

As many are telling you, there is nothing wrong with it. We get you are against it. Okay, what gives you the right to tell me what I can and can't do in my house? Not your bible which tells you several times you can't judge.

But go work tomorrow in sin, while shaking your head at a gay person.