Former Mizzou Michael Sam comes out of the closet

[stryke3_mb]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Also, I thought I'd share this story because I find it funny.

A friend of a friend was in school to become a priest and he was a decent enough guy, but always felt like I needed saving. One night at a bar he was there and he started talking to me about religion and god. Like I mentioned, I enjoy the debates so I talked with him awhile and what he kept coming to was how if I put my faith in God he will reveal himself to me. I asked him how if God was so powerful and wanted me to follow him, why doesn't he appear to me and make the first move. No joke, this guy puts his hand on my leg and says "maybe he just did"

Maybe it was the alcohol, because I didn't mean to disrespect him, but my guy reaction was just laughter. I couldn't hold it in, everything about that move I just found hilarious.

Actually your friend is probably right. More than likely it was God giving you an opportunity to let Him in. It happens all the time in ways like this. Some people open up and it changes their lives. Some people reject Him once more and laugh. Either way, it sounds like you had a friend who cared about you. That's gotta make you feel good.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by stryke3_mb

Actually your friend is probably right. More than likely it was God giving you an opportunity to let Him in. It happens all the time in ways like this. Some people open up and it changes their lives. Some people reject Him once more and laugh. Either way, it sounds like you had a friend who cared about you. That's gotta make you feel good.

Truth. My only issue with people like that has been the idea that I need to let God in. I mean, I get that if you believe in salvation and all that you might feel a little bad for me for not getting to spend eternity in heaven or whatever, that's legit and shows care. But someone like me...I live my life right, treat people with dignity, do good works, follow the Golden Rule, all that. I'm happy with all that. I don't feel I need saving. So I've always been a little offended when people say stuff like that because I appreciate the care but at the same time it's kinda like saying ehhh your life is good but it could be better...and I'm like I think my life is pretty awesome so thanks but no thanks.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

I can only speak of the guys that I hoop with, and it probably is not a scientific fact, but out of all those fellas, there ain't a one that equates civil rights with gay rights. Whole different ball game, not even close.

Care to expand your reply? Curious what you mean by "whole different ballgame, not even close"

[Jackg1980]

Look what the class of 2013 has done.

[cyberpvnk]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

I can only speak of the guys that I hoop with, and it probably is not a scientific fact, but out of all those fellas, there ain't a one that equates civil rights with gay rights. Whole different ball game, not even close.

And what are the demographics and faith of these "fellas you hoop with"? Are they a statistically correct sampling of Americans? Something tells me no.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by cyberpvnk

And what are the demographics and faith of these "fellas you hoop with"? Are they a statistically correct sampling of Americans? Something tells me no.

Exactly my thoughts. I mean my undergrad college was like 100% pro gay marriage. My college was also like 65% female, 30% gay/bi at any given time, and HUGELY hippie/hipster/liberal. I would not count them as an accurate subsection of America.

[cking]

Originally Posted by cyberpvnk

And what are the demographics and faith of these "fellas you hoop with"? Are they a statistically correct sampling of Americans? Something tells me no.

They are rural white men from Florida

Ask jlzinck, he will tell you

[MavsRChamps]

1,000 + replies

This is a big deal if you look at the big picture, but at the same time it's not a big deal if you don't ...

Meaning just Sam coming out is no big deal - Just one guy saying he's gay, right?

But the impact it will have in the future - Just in influencing little kids to become pro athletes and all the other stuff - including how the media covers it, how GM's weigh the extra media burden, etc. will be pretty big ...

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

Considering they range in age from 18-53, and are all African Americans, I would say they are the ones that count.

Are they fairly religious? There's some data out there suggesting that religious african americans are among the least accepting of homosexuality. Which isn't to say the parallel is fitting, but would say they'd be less open to the comparison given their lesser tolerance for homosexuality. In other words, if they're already pretty anti-homosexuality, then they're probably going to be anti a homosexuality rights/civil rights parallel.

If I'm wrong and they love gays but just don't care for the parallel, I'll shut my mouth on that aspect.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

1,000 + replies

This is a big deal if you look at the big picture, but at the same time it's not a big deal if you don't ...

Meaning just Sam coming out is no big deal - Just one guy saying he's gay, right?

But the impact it will have in the future - Just in influencing little kids to become pro athletes and all the other stuff - including how the media covers it, how GM's weigh the extra media burden, etc. will be pretty big ...

Post of the thread?

Post of the thread.

Well said, very well said.

[MavsRChamps]

I think people arguing over gay rights vs. civil rights really feel the same way - You guys' are just measuring / defining / stating things differently ...

It's like connecting Jim Brown and Ray Rice (or an even worse RB) because both were NFL RB's - The connection's there, but there will be people out there saying "You can't put those two guys in the same sentence. They're not comparable, etc." ... But you can because both were NFL RB's

It's the same thing with this Michael Sam vs. Jackie Robinson talk - Their "connection" is a fact ... Nobody can argue that - So they are comparable ... Nobody is saying what Sam will go through is anything close to what Black players went through 50+ years ago though

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

I think people arguing over gay rights vs. civil rights really feel the same way - You guys' are just measuring / defining / stating things differently ...

It's like connecting Jim Brown and Ray Rice (or an even worse RB) because both were NFL RB's - The connection's there, but there will be people out there saying "You can't put those two guys in the same sentence. They're not comparable, etc." ... But you can because both were NFL RB's

It's the same thing with this Michael Sam vs. Jackie Robinson talk - Their "connection" is a fact ... Nobody can argue that - So they are comparable ... Nobody is saying what Sam will go through is anything close to what Black players went through 50+ years ago though

Yeah exactly. It's a different issue, but a lot of the hurdles they'll have to jump and a lot of the backlash they'll get is similar, that's all I was saying. It was mostly just about how you need that first guy, those first few guys, to kinda get things rolling before it's a non-issue.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

These guys don't show a lot of church affiliation. Most have a pretty tough life, due to some circumstances out of their control, and some not. Most have kids, with different baby's momma's, and some could have still been playing somewhere, college or overseas, had life not dealt them some tough blows.

Gotcha. Sounds kind of like the kids I teach and their families...and they're generally less accepting of homosexuality because it doesn't fly in their friend groups. Can't grow up looking soft and whatnot. And it's a pretty common insult among my 8 year olds to mimic a weak wrist or call someone f%gg#t to start a fight.

[cyberpvnk]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

Considering they range in age from 18-53, and are all African Americans, I would say they are the ones that count.

EHHHHHHHHHHHH. Wrong again my friend. Asking a group African American to compare the two is not unbiased at all. Nor would it be asking 7 gay men that you drink wine with

I would actually hope that African Americans would have some sympathy towards the persecution and bigotry that the LGBT community endures.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by cyberpvnk

EHHHHHHHHHHHH. Wrong again my friend. Asking a group African American to compare the two is not unbiased at all. Nor would it be asking 7 gay men that you drink wine with

I would actually hope that African Americans would have some sympathy towards the persecution and bigotry that the LGBT community endures.

Yeah it's kind of sad. Last year I taught a classroom of 1-4 behavior kids and my one para was actually a gay woman. Every other word out of those kids mounths was f$gg%t or gay and I know it killed her every time. I was never promoting homosexuality because I know their parents wouldn't agree with that but I'll be darned if we didn't work on switching out those words (i.e. call Billy a jerk instead of a f#gg(t, call him stupid instead of gay, stuff like that. It's amazing how quickly those words fly out of inner city mouths (granted I had some white kids too so I'm not totally blaming race, more just circumstances/poverty/etc.).

[stryke3_mb]

Originally Posted by SpastikMooss

Truth. My only issue with people like that has been the idea that I need to let God in. I mean, I get that if you believe in salvation and all that you might feel a little bad for me for not getting to spend eternity in heaven or whatever, that's legit and shows care. But someone like me...I live my life right, treat people with dignity, do good works, follow the Golden Rule, all that. I'm happy with all that. I don't feel I need saving. So I've always been a little offended when people say stuff like that because I appreciate the care but at the same time it's kinda like saying ehhh your life is good but it could be better...and I'm like I think my life is pretty awesome so thanks but no thanks.

I get that. But seriously, don't be offended. It's only because they care about you enough to worry about where you're going once our time on Earth is done. It takes a lot for someone to talk about their faith publicly, even to close friends. So if someone you know approaches you, they only mean the very best.

And trust me, they aren't judging you or saying you could be better. I'm sure if you are a good person like you say, you can easily take that the wrong way and be offended. When you work hard and do the be the best person you can be and feel someone is telling you it's not good enough, I'd be a bit upset too. It's not like that though. They're just saying you're doing great, but they believe it can be EVEN BETTER for you.

You may never open yourself up to God. You may never believe. It's your choice and not a single person can make you. We can only hope and pray. So if someone goes as far as talking to you about it, please take it as a compliment and not an insult. They're only trying to help!

[cyberpvnk]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

The older guys responded as being more offended by the comparison of civil rights vs. gay rights. It's a little bit different having not only red necks wreaking havoc on you, but also a lot of police forces did the same to these guys and their families back in the day. I haven't seen any fire hoses or German shepherds used on those that are gay, or any cross burnings in their front yards. I'm telling you, in the South, civil rights and gay rights fight, ain't the same.

Nope, no cross burnings, just dragged behind pickup trucks on a chain until they're dead in addition to murder, rape with foreign objects, harrassment, beatings, etc.

And again, the South isn't exactly the best place to talk about tolerance and acceptance. Much of the south is stuck in 1940's thinking.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

The older guys responded as being more offended by the comparison of civil rights vs. gay rights. It's a little bit different having not only red necks wreaking havoc on you, but also a lot of police forces did the same to these guys and their families back in the day. I haven't seen any fire hoses or German shepherds used on those that are gay, or any cross burnings in their front yards. I'm telling you, in the South, civil rights and gay rights fight, ain't the same.

I definitely see what you're saying. We can all agree that Civil rights was a more intense issue if that makes everyone happy...but this is about equal rights for all not whose fight was more legit.

[cyberpvnk]

Originally Posted by SpastikMooss

I definitely see what you're saying. We can all agree that Civil rights was a more intense issue if that makes everyone happy...but this is about equal rights for all not whose fight was more legit.

Agree 100%.

[arkeeper]

Originally Posted by corndog

Because the agenda of homosexuals is equality as if there is nothing wrong with it. They are enmeshed in sin and see nothing wrong with it.

Change it to a different sin: What if thieves wanted to push the agenda that nothing belongs to anyone and they have the right to take whatever they want whenever they want it and you should let them. Would you be OK with that?

Gee, that sounds like our government...

What if girlfriends and boyfriends lived together? What if people got drunk on the weekend? What if there was a whole business enterprise behind gambling? What if divorce happened constantly? What if the rich had billions of dollars? What if old ladies sat around knitting and talking about their neighbors? What if men looked at porn?

These would all also be considered sins to those against homosexual lifestyles, but they aren't discriminated against on a daily basis, or legislated into the closet.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by stryke3_mb

I get that. But seriously, don't be offended. It's only because they care about you enough to worry about where you're going once our time on Earth is done. It takes a lot for someone to talk about their faith publicly, even to close friends. So if someone you know approaches you, they only mean the very best.

And trust me, they aren't judging you or saying you could be better. I'm sure if you are a good person like you say, you can easily take that the wrong way and be offended. When you work hard and do the be the best person you can be and feel someone is telling you it's not good enough, I'd be a bit upset too. It's not like that though. They're just saying you're doing great, but they believe it can be EVEN BETTER for you.

You may never open yourself up to God. You may never believe. It's your choice and not a single person can make you. We can only hope and pray. So if someone goes as far as talking to you about it, please take it as a compliment and not an insult. They're only trying to help!

I definitely feel ya, and I've never come out and been like F YOU MAN (hahaha). I actually have a lot of friends who are pastors/priests/etc., happens when you go to Catholic High School. It's mostly just something I think in my mind. But yeah I agree it's nice to know people just want the best for me, that's cool.

Originally Posted by cyberpvnk

Nope, no cross burnings, just dragged behind pickup trucks on a chain until they're dead in addition to murder, rape with foreign objects, harrassment, beatings, etc.

And again, the South isn't exactly the best place to talk about tolerance and acceptance. Much of the south is stuck in 1940's thinking.

Truth. I was gonna say, it's not like Matthew Shepard and Brandon Teena and countless others never happened. It's a closer parallel than I think many would like to admit, but I definitely wouldn't fault members of either group for not liking the comparison. But that being said, I'd also hope they'd support the issue, like you said, given the fact that in both cases it's a group being wrongly discriminated against.

[free2131]

Originally Posted by corndog

Having an open mind has nothing to do with belief in biblical principles.

Probably the first thing you have said that I agree with.

Originally Posted by corndog

Remember, it is not the thoughts that Christians believe is sin, it is the actions.

Really?

Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

Originally Posted by arkeeper

These would all also be considered sins to those against homosexual lifestyles, but they aren't discriminated against on a daily basis, or legislated into the closet.

Give this man a golden star.

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by 3of5-2

The older guys responded as being more offended by the comparison of civil rights vs. gay rights. It's a little bit different having not only red necks wreaking havoc on you, but also a lot of police forces did the same to these guys and their families back in the day. I haven't seen any fire hoses or German shepherds used on those that are gay, or any cross burnings in their front yards. I'm telling you, in the South, civil rights and gay rights fight, ain't the same.

You have not seen any of that? Open your eyes.

[cking]

Originally Posted by cyberpvnk

Nope, no cross burnings, just dragged behind pickup trucks on a chain until they're dead in addition to murder, rape with foreign objects, harrassment, beatings, etc.

And again, the South isn't exactly the best place to talk about tolerance and acceptance. Much of the south is stuck in 1940's thinking.

Sort of sounds like a typical night in Pittsburgh if you ask me

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by WCTYSON

You have not seen any of that? Open your eyes.

THIS iS THE BIGGEST PICTURE EVAR!!!!!!!!!1