Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend - Page 46

Bruins1993 · 12-04-2022, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Part of it is that guys can influence other guys to hand over money for slips of cardboard with pictures of other guys on them.

Women see through that influence nonsense and see it plainly for the game it truly is - just another ridiculous instance of guys trying to make a buck

This article has a lot of parallels with the sports card marking in my opinion:
https://bossrush.net/2022/07/09/coll...-money-for-me/

I think the author touches on some good points...

vintg · 12-04-2022, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfast

Beckett sucks but VCP isn’t the “bible” for vintage either. Maybe certain cards but I’ve never used it buying any of the Cobb’s that I’ve bought and sold.

that's interesting b/c vcp lists all ebay auctions and bins, by card, by company, by grade.

however, give me "specifics" on your cobb purchases and sales, i'm all ears.

i love to learn, and i actually have the 1909 e90-1 cobb, and the 1911 gold border. (the 1909 is my favorite card, i actually have a t-shirt of this card, lol)

and i used vcp for both purchases, going over each and every "picture" of what
sold, and for what prices, by what company. (grades 1 and 2)

notfast · 12-04-2022, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintg

that's interesting b/c vcp lists all ebay auctions and bins, by card, by company, by grade.

however, give me "specifics" on your cobb purchases and sales, i'm all ears.

i love to learn, and i actually have the 1909 e90-1 cobb, and the 1911 gold border. (the 1909 is my favorite card, i actually have a t-shirt of this card, lol)

and i used vcp for both purchases, going over each and every "picture" of what
sold, and for what prices, by what company. (grades 1 and 2)

Maybe they’ve changed it, but it was very time consuming to differentiate different backs for t206 stuff. For example - All red portrait psa 2 Cobbs would be listed and you’d have to go item by item for something with a different back. Similar to how PSA APR works.

abbeyroadwalker · 12-04-2022, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Part of it is that guys can influence other guys to hand over money for slips of cardboard with pictures of other guys on them.

Women see through that influence nonsense and see it plainly for the game it truly is - just another ridiculous instance of guys trying to make a buck

women also have ways of convincing men to give them what they want too....think about it

vintg · 12-04-2022, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfast

Maybe they’ve changed it, but it was very time consuming to differentiate different backs for t206 stuff. For example - All red portrait psa 2 Cobbs would be listed and you’d have to go item by item for something with a different back. Similar to how PSA APR works.

i don't own a red (or green), but, they have backs separated for:

old mill
piedmont- sweet caporal
piedmont 350
hindu
broadleaf
carolina brights
cycle
drum

notfast · 12-04-2022, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintg

i don't own a red (or green), but, they have backs separated for:

old mill
piedmont- sweet caporal
piedmont 350
hindu
broadleaf
carolina brights
cycle
drum

They must have split things up compared to years ago. Still dont have a reason to spend $150+ a year on it but at least its more usable now.

oakhurstcards · 12-04-2022, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Love it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They don't understand math. At "Sanchez Brothers" or whatever their name is, at Chantilly, they had a Lebron BC Ref 9.5. I asked the price...

They said "we are into it for way too much."

That was the answer.

Not a number. LOL

Santiago? IDK their names--captain clown YouTubers of some sort.

golakers32 · 12-04-2022, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

This article has a lot of parallels with the sports card marking in my opinion:
https://bossrush.net/2022/07/09/coll...-money-for-me/

I think the author touches on some good points...

The author is 100% right. But, I will still snipe on eBay.

gmoney328 · 12-04-2022, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakhurstcards

They don't understand math. At "Sanchez Brothers" or whatever their name is, at Chantilly, they had a Lebron BC Ref 9.5. I asked the price...

They said "we are into it for way too much

That was the answer.

Not a number. LOL

Santiago? IDK their names--captain clown YouTubers of some sort.

I imagine if modern dealers are being honest, this would be their answer for a lot of their inventory.

solt0131 · 12-06-2022, 07:00 AM

Here is my observation from the big Philly Show this past weekend:

--Friday evening traffic was moderate, not too many VIP's came in from 1-3, at least not like there used to be. Saturday was very busy and people were definitely shopping and buying. Sunday was busy up until noon or so.

--Showcase stuff for the most part was dead, very little demand for higher priced showcase cards. I did not have one out.

--Lower end ($20 and under) was absolutely on fire and this is what people were spending their money on at this show. I did very well with .50 cent cards again at my table.

I thought for the most part this was a very good show overall and one of the better ones for anyone to attend during the year. Going forward I can see sales on $20 and under stuff continue to stay strong and most stuff over that price point remaining stale.

Thanks,

Rob

solt0131 · 12-08-2022, 08:16 AM

One thing I do want to add: Seems like attendance is great at all of these shows but the amount of people that are actually spending good money is way down. That's the major difference that I see now versus a year ago.

notfast · 12-08-2022, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solt0131

One thing I do want to add: Seems like attendance is great at all of these shows but the amount of people that are actually spending good money is way down. That's the major difference that I see now versus a year ago.

My dealer friend said he did great at the Philly show. It always comes down to how you price your stuff.

solt0131 · 12-08-2022, 08:39 AM

I had a great show as well along with my buddies but there were a lot of people in that room who did not have a great show.

theshowandme · 12-08-2022, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solt0131

One thing I do want to add: Seems like attendance is great at all of these shows but the amount of people that are actually spending good money is way down. That's the major difference that I see now versus a year ago.

Spot on.

I go to every Chantilly show and this was my first Philly show last week.

Recently I have been very methodical at shows and may only buy 2-3 cards all weekend.

I'm spending, but much more intelligently. I will pick up buying in bulk for COMC submissions again soon, but my target for all of next year is realistically 2-4 cards for the entire year (big boys).

Talking to a long term dealer, he said the same thing, that people were just not spending, and that he was down 50-75% per weekend compared to just a year ago. His entire showcase is high grade, colored, bowman chrome autos of all the top 100 prospects you can name. He has $10-15k Trout, Ohtani, and Soto cards and they are just not moving anymore. People are being much more intelligent with their $

miscus555 · 12-08-2022, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Spot on.

I go to every Chantilly show and this was my first Philly show last week.

Recently I have been very methodical at shows and may only buy 2-3 cards all weekend.

I'm spending, but much more intelligently. I will pick up buying in bulk for COMC submissions again soon, but my target for all of next year is realistically 2-4 cards for the entire year (big boys).

Talking to a long term dealer, he said the same thing, that people were just not spending, and that he was down 50-75% per weekend compared to just a year ago. His entire showcase is high grade, colored, bowman chrome autos of all the top 100 prospects you can name. He has $10-15k Trout, Ohtani, and Soto cards and they are just not moving anymore. People are being much more intelligent with their $

this is true, I list vintage action figure and other accessories on ebay a lot and usually my sales are always items under $100 or even under $50 all the time, never sell any of the big ticket items. its not that it's a risk in respect to the item because the item is worth it but it's a risk to spend a lot on something without a good economical outlook in real life. if you need that money back, its not always easy to find another person willing to spend

KhalDrogo · 12-08-2022, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Talking to a long term dealer, he said the same thing, that people were just not spending, and that he was down 50-75% per weekend compared to just a year ago. His entire showcase is high grade, colored, bowman chrome autos of all the top 100 prospects you can name. He has $10-15k Trout, Ohtani, and Soto cards and they are just not moving anymore. People are being much more intelligent with their $

Collectors are never scared to buy. The investor money had no fear the last three years. Now it’s hesitant.

Of the proven guys, I think Trout is the closest to his bottom.

ObanMontecristo · 12-08-2022, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Collectors are never scared to buy. The investor money had no fear the last three years. Now it’s hesitant.

I think this is it- a lot of dealers have the really big graded stuff on display, and they’re looking to get a premium for it - several dealers I encountered at the Philly Show didn’t have their prices marked and when I asked what the prices were, they looked up comps on eBay or 130point, and then wanted full value (or more). They’re trying to bring the online market (high end graded cards) to shows were people are looking to get deals (with cash). If you’re a buyer/investor looking for bigger graded cards, it might make more sense to try your luck online. I suspect that sellers with raw cards and more flexibility are making out better at these shows, because that’s what a lot of buyers are still looking for.

The Philly show moved to a bigger venue- more dealers, more buyers, more space to move around. I thought it was great, and it definitely seemed to me like the hobby interest is there. IMO, sellers just have to figure out who you’re selling to at shows vs. online.

Captain1302 · 12-08-2022, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Spot on.

I go to every Chantilly show and this was my first Philly show last week.

Recently I have been very methodical at shows and may only buy 2-3 cards all weekend.

I'm spending, but much more intelligently. I will pick up buying in bulk for COMC submissions again soon, but my target for all of next year is realistically 2-4 cards for the entire year (big boys).

Talking to a long term dealer, he said the same thing, that people were just not spending, and that he was down 50-75% per weekend compared to just a year ago. His entire showcase is high grade, colored, bowman chrome autos of all the top 100 prospects you can name. He has $10-15k Trout, Ohtani, and Soto cards and they are just not moving anymore. People are being much more intelligent with their $

Probably the biggest reason the dealer isn't moving higher end is because they bought in high. Most of those cards are down quite a bit now from where they were 12-16 months ago. Most dealers just can't accept reality and refuse to take a loss on certain cards.

notfast · 12-08-2022, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObanMontecristo

I think this is it- a lot of dealers have the really big graded stuff on display, and they’re looking to get a premium for it - several dealers I encountered at the Philly Show didn’t have their prices marked and when I asked what the prices were, they looked up comps on eBay or 130point, and then wanted full value (or more). They’re trying to bring the online market (high end graded cards) to shows were people are looking to get deals (with cash). If you’re a buyer/investor looking for bigger graded cards, it might make more sense to try your luck online. I suspect that sellers with raw cards and more flexibility are making out better at these shows, because that’s what a lot of buyers are still looking for.

The Philly show moved to a bigger venue- more dealers, more buyers, more space to move around. I thought it was great, and it definitely seemed to me like the hobby interest is there. IMO, sellers just have to figure out who you’re selling to at shows vs. online.

I think the difference is WHAT you are selling.

I’m not going to give much of a discount on my t206 Cobbs just because it’s cash in person but I would do so on a Trout patch auto or some Bowman Chrome PSA 10.

Buyers have to learn this too. People need to stop asking for discounts on the stuff that doesn’t warrant it.

The issue is deciding what is what.

KhalDrogo · 12-08-2022, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfast

I think the difference is WHAT you are selling.

I’m not going to give much of a discount on my t206 Cobbs just because it’s cash in person but I would do so on a Trout patch auto or some Bowman Chrome PSA 10.

Buyers have to learn this too. People need to stop asking for discounts on the stuff that doesn’t warrant it.

The issue is deciding what is what.

Posted this last night on IG.

Total Trout Update Black sales the last three years: 4
Total Brady Contenders Champ Ticket sales in November: 4

Were the money to be made long term is in cards that are heavily collected. Those Champ Tickets sat in collections for 10+ years without moving. Until prices became too much. Then they moved into weak handed investors who didn’t care for the card itself, and didn’t have the wealth backing them that could justify watching paper losses of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

notfast · 12-08-2022, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Posted this last night on IG.

Total Trout Update Black sales the last three years: 4
Total Brady Contenders Champ Ticket sales in November: 4

Were the money to be made long term is in cards that are heavily collected. Those Champ Tickets sat in collections for 10+ years without moving. Until prices became too much. Then they moved into weak handed investors who didn’t care for the card itself, and didn’t have the wealth backing them that could justify watching paper losses of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Very true.

I think the issue is so much stuff that was “rare” has become easily accessible over the last few years.

A champ ticket 3 years ago was never up for sale. Now they’re in every auction.

Just because something is worth a lot doesn’t make it something that is “rare” IMO. I can go buy an exquisite Lebron, Champ ticket Brady and Curry NT easily within a few weeks if I wanted.

If I wanted a black update trout or a rare back Cobb….it wouldn’t be so easy even though those arent worth as much.

eastbayak · 12-08-2022, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfast

My dealer friend said he did great at the Philly show. It always comes down to how you price your stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solt0131

I had a great show as well along with my buddies but there were a lot of people in that room who did not have a great show.

Price is an important factor.

People who have “bad” shows likely have bad prices and/or PSA 10s of second-year base cards, parallels of lesser desired sets, lesser desired players, etc. Some also might have super high-end that, though priced right relative to today’s prices, few can comfortably afford.

SupermanBrandon · 12-08-2022, 10:49 AM

Quote: