LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

LOL

It was actually #87! I was using PWCC to search initially.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ames-421674949

Eric told me he acquired his first Lebron card for 14k around 5 years ago, which lines up perfectly with that auction. I.E. he bought 87/99 off ebay for 14k raw in 2013. He was the original owner.

Seems like nail in the coffin, right? Is there any universe where Eric isn't the one who trimmed it?

[thenwhatjk]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I can almost envision Adam's coming reply, verbatim.


"Guys. I took a step back for awhile just to reevaluate the situation. I know, I know. It looks bad. It really does. I'll take it on the cheek. But hear me out.

My internet was screwy at the time. Mind, body and spirit fatigued. I was going through a lot in my personal life. You know, building a wooden deck and organizing my next major shipment to PWCC. Life stuff. I was confused and scared. I'm not used to receiving random messages from Korean people. Ya know?

A lot of you have seen me at shows. Heck, we've shared drinks at the hotel. I hope you can see me for what I truly am. Yes. I made a mistake. A lot of them.

But I'm only human.

Haha. Now that I've been crucified like JC, let's get back to the matter at hand.

I talked to Eric........."

Lol you really nailed the cadence

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Eric told me he acquired his first Lebron card for 14k around 5 years ago, which lines up perfectly with that auction. I.E. he bought 87/99 off ebay for 14k raw in 2013. He was the original owner.

Seems like nail in the coffin, right? Is there any universe where Eric isn't the one who trimmed it?

Yeah, the universe soleternity comes from lmao.

It's possible he has a 'guy' that trims cards for him, but either way, he is well aware. I think it's done, barring a miracle from BNC or some unknown, it's game over.

[Soleternity]

@rogermaris, yes, that looks really bad. But what about Sohrob listing the card for sale on 7/20/13? How does that factor in?

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

This is confusing actually. If the dates are correct:

7/19/13: buybuymj saves pic of #87 with buynicecards logo

7/20/13: Sohrob starts a for sale thread for a Lebron RPA Exq /99. The number isnt specified.

7/24/13: Sohrob edits original post saying the card has sold to a good home.

So Sohrob was using buynicecards logo? Then sold it to Eric? Or are these dates just a coincidence.

All I can tell is that Eric didnt acquire #87 like he said he did. I doubt he's misinformed.

I think it's also important to note that the arrow is moving away from Sohrob. If you read buybuymjs message to the27guy he says Sohrob isnt the magician everyone thinks he is. Yes, he says he's seen two reputable peoples dark side but he wasn't referring to Sohrob. He was referring to obviously Eric but the other person is a PBM he did not name.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

Lol, I knew that little zing was gonna get to ya, Abra. Yes, it was aimed at you, and I'm glad you realized it.

You and the Puritanical mob are constantly looking for witches to burn. Once in a while, you find one. Looks like you're getting your scalp today. The evidence against BNC is bad. I've got zero affiliation to BNC. I'd just like to know the truth.

But anyone with a shred of objectivity left will be curious to hear the full story behind #87's grading and provenance, which is nowhere near fully disclosed at this moment. There are still pieces left to be filled in, as theLUCKYshow has been indicating. In that sense, I do appreciate Abra and the mob (although I don't recommend reading 90% of their self-righteous garbage) because they pressure the accused to defend themselves.

There are no pieces left to be filled in that would alter the basic fact at hand - that BNC owned the untrimmed copy, then the trimmed BGS 9 copy. Look at the post above.

1. BNC buys #87 raw in March 2013 from eBay. The card has a noticeably damaged right edge.

2. BNC is hosting the image of #87 on his website in the summer of 2013.

3. BNC claims himself, in this very thread, that he purchased #87 from sohrob as part of a collection, sometime in 2014.

4. BNC claims himself, in this very thread, that he then promptly grades #87.

5. #87 is graded a BGS 9 on April 24, 2015. The card no longer has the damaged right edge, and the left edge is cleaned up also.

Now, #3 doesn't make sense unless the card changed hands after #2. And #4 is clearly a lie, unless "promptly" to BNC means 4 months or more. But none of that matters. All some of you have done this entire thread is continually demand more evidence to somehow try to discredit the facts.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

@rogermaris, yes, that looks really bad. But what about Sohrob listing the card for sale on 7/20/13? How does that factor in?

We don't know that's #87. That's 100% speculation. It is more likely that it is NOT #87.

Here is the OP. Bold my additions:

The first attachment is 87/99. It was owned by a collector for a long time then sold in March 2013 (on eBay) to someone (BNC) on the forums. It reappeared with much nicer edges!!! See the damage on the black border on the left/right ungraded, then nice and clean on the BGS 9 grade.

We have PWCC and Worthpoint showing this card selling for $14k in March 2013.

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There are no pieces left to be filled in that would alter the basic fact at hand - that BNC owned the untrimmed copy, then the trimmed BGS 9 copy. Look at the post above.

1. BNC buys #87 raw in March 2013 from eBay. The card has a noticeably damaged right edge.

2. BNC is hosting the image of #87 on his website in the summer of 2013.

3. BNC claims himself, in this very thread, that he purchased #87 from sohrob as part of a collection, sometime in 2014.

4. BNC claims himself, in this very thread, that he then promptly grades #87.

5. #87 is graded a BGS 9 on April 24, 2015. The card no longer has the damaged right edge, and the left edge is cleaned up also.

Now, #3 doesn't make sense unless the card changed hands after #2. And #4 is clearly a lie, unless "promptly" to BNC means 4 months or more. But none of that matters. All some of you have done this entire thread is continually demand more evidence to somehow try to discredit the facts.

Settle down. I'm with you. The evidence is weighing heavily against BNC.

I totally agree with you on #1-#5. I don't see what could possibly explain the discrepancy between the facts you stated and BNC's claims. Seems like BNC was lying.

But there's an open question, and I'd like to know what you think about it. Look at this timeline (below) that theLUCKYshow crafted. How does Sohrob have the card and sell it in 2013 via BO, if the card was acquired by BNC in March via eBay? Did they sell/trade it back and forth to each other? Co-owners? That part isn't adding up, and leaves open the small possibility that Sohrob or someone else did the trimming.

This is confusing actually. If the dates are correct:

7/19/13: buybuymj saves pic of #87 with buynicecards logo

7/20/13: Sohrob starts a for sale thread for a Lebron RPA Exq /99. The number isnt specified.

7/24/13: Sohrob edits original post saying the card has sold to a good home.

So Sohrob was using buynicecards logo? Then sold it to Eric? Or are these dates just a coincidence.

All I can tell is that Eric didnt acquire #87 like he said he did. I doubt he's misinformed.

I think it's also important to note that the arrow is moving away from Sohrob. If you read buybuymjs message to the27guy he says Sohrob isnt the magician everyone thinks he is. Yes, he says he's seen two reputable peoples dark side but he wasn't referring to Sohrob. He was referring to obviously Eric but the other person is a PBM he did not name.

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

We don't know that's #87. That's 100% speculation. It is more likely that it is NOT #87.

OK, thank you for clarifying that.

[RYBOWSKI97]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There are no pieces left to be filled in that would alter the basic fact at hand - that BNC owned the untrimmed copy, then the trimmed BGS 9 copy. Look at the post above.

1. BNC buys #87 raw in March 2013 from eBay. The card has a noticeably damaged right edge.

2. BNC is hosting the image of #87 on his website in the summer of 2013.

3. BNC claims himself, in this very thread, that he purchased #87 from sohrob as part of a collection, sometime in 2014.

4. BNC claims himself, in this very thread, that he then promptly grades #87.

5. #87 is graded a BGS 9 on April 24, 2015. The card no longer has the damaged right edge, and the left edge is cleaned up also.

Now, #3 doesn't make sense unless the card changed hands after #2. And #4 is clearly a lie, unless "promptly" to BNC means 4 months or more. But none of that matters. All some of you have done this entire thread is continually demand more evidence to somehow try to discredit the facts.

why keep go over and over it, bnc trimmed card to make more money plain and simple. there is nothing left to say, everyone defending him is either delusional or on his payroll. i dont see how there is any other conclusion here. this hobby has always been full of scammers since some people will sell their soul for the almighty dollar. just stop going back and forth with this...its over.

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There are no pieces left to be filled in that would alter the basic fact at hand - that BNC owned the untrimmed copy, then the trimmed BGS 9 copy. Look at the post above.

Look, if I'm being too much of a skeptic / devil's advocate here, then please ignore what I'm about to write. I don't want to lend cover to BNC. I think this looks real bad for him and he should come defend himself if he cares.

I read your post a few times over, and your point about the card being sold on BO in summer not being #87 is what I was overlooking. I'm with you. It likely wasn't the same card. So, that point is moot.

But aren't the real issues here: who trimmed the card, when it was trimmed, and who knew it was trimmed when they acquired it?

If so, then we still haven't answered that question 100%, have we? You said the basic unalterable facts are that (1) BNC owned it untrimmed, and then (2) BNC owned it trimmed as a BGS9. Got it, agreed, there is no disputing that. Here's the question I'm interested in: Is it possible that in between BNC acquiring it on eBay, and it being graded in 2015, that someone else had it and trimmed it and then sold it back to BNC, without BNC's knowledge of the trimming? If that's possible, what's the likelihood that it happened? I'm thinking very small, since he would've said that in his original post. But I'd feel better about this if we could get a straight answer from BNC or elsewhere.

Like I said, sorry if I'm being overly skeptical here.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

Look, if I'm being too much of a skeptic / devil's advocate here, then please ignore what I'm about to write. I don't want to lend cover to BNC. I think this looks real bad for him and he should come defend himself if he cares.

I read your post a few times over, and your point about the card being sold on BO in summer not being #87 is what I was overlooking. I'm with you. It likely wasn't the same card. So, that point is moot.

But aren't the real issues here: who trimmed the card, when it was trimmed, and who knew it was trimmed when they acquired it?

If so, then we still haven't answered that question 100%, have we? You said the basic unalterable facts are that (1) BNC owned it untrimmed, and then (2) BNC owned it trimmed as a BGS9. Got it, agreed, there is no disputing that. Here's the question I'm interested in: Is it possible that in between BNC acquiring it on eBay, and it being graded in 2015, that someone else had it and trimmed it and then sold it back to BNC, without BNC's knowledge of the trimming? If that's possible, what's the likelihood that it happened? I'm thinking very small, since he would've said that in his original post. But I'd feel better about this if we could get a straight answer from BNC or elsewhere.

Like I said, sorry if I'm being overly skeptical here.

I think the problem is you aren't using Occam's Razor. We know Eric bought the card in 2013 untrimmed. We know when he got it graded in 2015 it was trimmed. He has lied about nearly every detail regarding the provenance of the card. In my conversations with him, he showed no interest in trying to find who trimmed the card.

The amount of assumptions you have to make to conclude he did not trim the card is vastly higher than the amount of assumptions you need to conclude he did. I'm having a hard time even crafting any sort of narrative that wouldn't implicate Eric in the trimming of the card. If you can build a plausible narrative, I would love to hear it.

[Jasondr91]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

Look, if I'm being too much of a skeptic / devil's advocate here, then please ignore what I'm about to write. I don't want to lend cover to BNC. I think this looks real bad for him and he should come defend himself if he cares.

I read your post a few times over, and your point about the card being sold on BO in summer not being #87 is what I was overlooking. I'm with you. It likely wasn't the same card. So, that point is moot.

But aren't the real issues here: who trimmed the card, when it was trimmed, and who knew it was trimmed when they acquired it?

If so, then we still haven't answered that question 100%, have we? You said the basic unalterable facts are that (1) BNC owned it untrimmed, and then (2) BNC owned it trimmed as a BGS9. Got it, agreed, there is no disputing that. Here's the question I'm interested in: Is it possible that in between BNC acquiring it on eBay, and it being graded in 2015, that someone else had it and trimmed it and then sold it back to BNC, without BNC's knowledge of the trimming? If that's possible, what's the likelihood that it happened? I'm thinking very small, since he would've said that in his original post. But I'd feel better about this if we could get a straight answer from BNC or elsewhere.

Like I said, sorry if I'm being overly skeptical here.

Dude, just stop. Seriously. There's 99 copies of the card. If Eric once owned it with chipping along the edge...then sold it accordingly. But now there's a chance he bought the exact same serial numbered Lebron down the road, magically now a BGS 9? And he wouldn't recognize the serial number? The boring patch? Are you seriously this obtuse? Is it deliberate?

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

I think the problem is you aren't using Occam's Razor. We know Eric bought the card in 2013 untrimmed. We know when he got it graded in 2015 it was trimmed. He has lied about nearly every detail about the provenance of the card. In my conversations with him, he showed no interest in trying to find who trimmed the card.

The amount of assumptions you have to make to conclude he did not trim the card is vastly higher than the amount of assumptions you need to conclude he did.

Agreed. Guess I've just seen these type of threads twist and turn so many times, I'm hesitant to commit, even when the evidence is overwhelming.

[AbraCalabro]

He's just in here with his nose in the air trying to dish out red herrings, it's like asking what kind of underwear OJ Simpson was wearing when he stabbed Nicole.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

Look, if I'm being too much of a skeptic / devil's advocate here, then please ignore what I'm about to write. I don't want to lend cover to BNC. I think this looks real bad for him and he should come defend himself if he cares.

I read your post a few times over, and your point about the card being sold on BO in summer not being #87 is what I was overlooking. I'm with you. It likely wasn't the same card. So, that point is moot.

But aren't the real issues here: who trimmed the card, when it was trimmed, and who knew it was trimmed when they acquired it?

If so, then we still haven't answered that question 100%, have we? You said the basic unalterable facts are that (1) BNC owned it untrimmed, and then (2) BNC owned it trimmed as a BGS9. Got it, agreed, there is no disputing that. Here's the question I'm interested in: Is it possible that in between BNC acquiring it on eBay, and it being graded in 2015, that someone else had it and trimmed it and then sold it back to BNC, without BNC's knowledge of the trimming? If that's possible, what's the likelihood that it happened? I'm thinking very small, since he would've said that in his original post. But I'd feel better about this if we could get a straight answer from BNC or elsewhere.

Like I said, sorry if I'm being overly skeptical here.

Dude, get a grip. This is ridiculous.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

Agreed. Guess I've just seen these type of threads twist and turn so many times, I'm hesitant to commit, even when the evidence is overwhelming.

I understand; I've seen it too. Not just with cards but with any form of mob justice. And if you read my previous posts in this thread you'll see that I've tried to give Eric the benefit of the doubt wherever possible. But I think we've reached a point where the pitchforks are justified.

[rats60]

It is possible that BNC didn't trim it, but it is not possible that he didn't know it and submit a known trimmed card for grading. He knew he bought a damaged card that wasn't damaged when it sent it to BGS. Whether he trimmed or not is irrelevant, he is part of the alteration and deception on the hobby.

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by Jasondr91

Dude, just stop. Seriously. There's 99 copies of the card. If Eric once owned it with chipping along the edge...then sold it accordingly. But now there's a chance he bought the exact same serial numbered Lebron down the road, magically now a BGS 9? And he wouldn't recognize the serial number? The boring patch? Are you seriously this obtuse? Is it deliberate?

love the joke inside a serious response

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by Jasondr91

Dude, just stop. Seriously. There's 99 copies of the card. If Eric once owned it with chipping along the edge...then sold it accordingly. But now there's a chance he bought the exact same serial numbered Lebron down the road, magically now a BGS 9? And he wouldn't recognize the serial number? The boring patch? Are you seriously this obtuse? Is it deliberate?

Lol, look man, we had a little spat above, I got my jabs in, you got yours in. It was fun. I gave you the last word, where you grilled me, and then finished me off with the edited in Luka gif. You got me.

Here, you've misunderstood (or I've failed to properly convey) my point. I'm not saying he bought the same card later as a BGS 9. I'm saying he had it raw, sold it to someone for, say, 6 months, and then bought it back again (still raw), and it had been trimmed while away from his possession without his knowledge. He then decides to grade it, and it gets a 9. This is clearly a possible outcome, but it's not a likely one. It's worth 100% discrediting, if possible. It's like 90% discredited now, but it is still an escape valve that BNC could use, and it should be addressed. Collector circles like to trade around cards. They make a deal for a few months, send it around to each other, sometimes it ends up back in the first guy's hands. It happens.

[theLUCKYshow]

How much longer before the magical powers that be put the hammer down on ebitz?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

I understand; I've seen it too. Not just with cards but with any form of mob justice. And if you read my previous posts in this thread you'll see that I've tried to give Eric the benefit of the doubt wherever possible. But I think we've reached a point where the pitchforks are justified.

Fair enough. I respect your deliberation. I've come to largely the same conclusion. For you to put it like that nudges me even further. Ideally, I'd like to hear from the accused once more before I grab my pitchfork. A ton of new revelations have come out. But I don't think he's gonna reply. And if he doesn't within a reasonable time frame, then I'm ready to pass judgment.

Abra had the stake ready to burn before the thread was started.

[Jasondr91]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

love the joke inside a serious response

Anytime sir! Now, what are you jimmy's starring at!? Get back to work!

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

How much longer before the magical powers that be put the hammer down on ebitz?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I think it is going to take them time to read and go through this whole thing first.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

Lol, look man, we had a little spat above, I got my jabs in, you got yours in. It was fun. I gave you the last word, where you grilled me, and then finished me off with the edited in Luka gif. You got me.

Here, you've misunderstood (or I've failed to properly convey) my point. I'm not saying he bought the same card later as a BGS 9. I'm saying he had it raw, sold it to someone for, say, 6 months, and then bought it back again (still raw), and it had been trimmed while away from his possession without his knowledge. He then decides to grade it, and it gets a 9. This is clearly a possible outcome, but it's not a likely one. It's worth 100% discrediting, if possible. It's like 90% discredited now, but it is still an escape valve that BNC could use, and it should be addressed. Collector circles like to trade around cards. They make a deal for a few months, send it around to each other, sometimes it ends up back in the first guy's hands. It happens.

No. It's not a possible outcome. Unless you believe the guy with a multi-million dollar inventory of cards was too stupid to realize the card was in better condition than when he previously owned it.

Moving on... this hobby is obviously very dirty. I think that stems from how easy it is to defraud. Ebay makes it too easy to shill. PSA and BGS make it too easy to trim and touch up. High-end dealers create buyer groups to manipulate sales, leaving unsuspecting buyers the ones holding the bag when it's all over. That's why threads like this are so important. A handful of individuals have been exposed as unsavory at best, and easy to avoid in the future.

[splum]

I feel like the mysterious OP is going to show up any minute now and just drop a huge info bomb of all of us.