Vegas Dave lists Orange Trout thru Proxy, Buys Own Card to Prop Up Market

[KB81]

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

I am danjess..I log onto other accounts and comment on my own arguements to manipulate the "not smart" people into buying into them

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

I am danjess..I log onto other accounts and comment on my own arguements to manipulate the "not smart" people into buying into them

I don't get your logic. Smart people use previous sale prices for their assessment of value all the time.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

I am actually Vegas Dave too.. all make sense now?

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

I am danjess..I log onto other accounts and comment on my own arguements to manipulate the "not smart" people into buying into them.. is that shady?

It is peculiar how someone who doesn't comment in this forum for years finds this thread and posts in it quickly.

Surely, someone alerted DJ to the thread. It's not as if he came here today and stumbled upon it.

[splitrockgamer]

Originally Posted by adamsbetter

I don't play a lot of tourneys. I have a wife, 4 kids and a few other properties/businesses that take most of my time here in Georgia. I play in the biggest cash games in Atlanta 2-3 times a week though and go to Vegas 6-7 times a year.

To answer your question though, lol, you're probably better off waiting on a more premium hand within the next orbit to shove since you've only got 5 bb left. If you shove there, you're getting called almost every time unless the button and blinds are super tight or it's getting close to the bubble, etc...

Congrats on the sex bro, I am so envious of your amazing life.. golly g wilikers if I do some book learning can I grow up to be a big successful poker player and afford a trout card like you some day sir?

[splitrockgamer]

Originally Posted by pgisback

I don't get your logic. Smart people use previous sale prices for their assessment of value all the time.

So is it my fault you waste your time arguing with an idiot like me or yours?

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

I don't want to hear any stories about Dave. I just want to know how to play suited connectors in the cut off against an aggro with an effective stack of 10000 and blinds at 1K-2K. LMK

SHOVE. You only have 5bb

[LVDan]

Feels like an episode of American Greed I won't wanna miss in a few years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jjeanius]

Originally Posted by danjess33

Was this once Daves card? Looks that way! Is it his card again now? Yes, he bought it!!! What happened in between is no ones business and why would anyone care??? How in the world does him buying his own card push up the price, lol? Why would he want to show the world such a thing??? He looks to be a rich man that has a mind for business. I got a Trout off him and he got it back plain and simple!!! I'm sure if he wanted to sell his own card he could of had a friend buy it instead of himself? Also who schills a card with a best offer in which no one can see the sale price unless they take the time to research it on a different site? Several people have asked me what it sold for I never put that information out because some buyers would not want it known! Please stop this non sense!!!! I will not post anything again I stay off of these sites because of this kind of crap!!! Anyone that knows me personally knows exactly what kind of person I am and that I wouldn't take part in any BS!!! Please buy cards with your own mind stop paying attention to comps and letting others tell you what things are worth!!!

OMG this is just the gift that keeps on giving...!

So...VD posted a pic of this card in his possession on May 11th...he sells it to you...you then turn around and list it on eBay exactly one week later...and VD buys it back from you via eBay, and without just going to you directly...?!? Well, of course...! That makes *PERFECT* sense...!

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

It is peculiar how someone who doesn't comment in this forum for years finds this thread and posts in it quickly.

Surely, someone alerted DJ to the thread. It's not as if he came here today and stumbled upon it.

Guilty as charged! I first sent a message through eBay: "Hope you got paid for allowing VD to shill his own orange Trout..!"

His response: "I don't tune in to the house wife baseball card network, take you gossip elsewhere!!!"

My response: "Very mature response from a very ethical seller. Thanks so much for validating my already poor opinion of your business practices.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1213666"

My goodness, the only thing that could make this better would be for VD to join the discussion in person...!

If only this could get as much internet coverage as the actual Super "sale" itself! VD would be more infamous than ever. We really do need to get the word out about VD, right...? Too many people are being hurt by it...err, him.

[seabass97166]

Here is the part I don't understand - and I actually would totally believe DanJess about buying the card back.

BUT....he made the video very recently...so when exactly did he sell the card. I would assume he would have sold it months ago, and now trying to get them all back and corner the market or whatever....but it was clearly in his possession last week.

Unless...the picture on Instagram was old, but I was assuming that was taken from the recent video

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

Again, whatever someone pays for it is what it is worth. How can you say something isnt worth that much if someone ELSE pays that much for it. If I buy a dollar bill and say it is worth 10 dollars and everyone else in the world is like no bud that thing is only worth 1 dollar, but I find 1 that is right 1 person to buy it for 10 dollars then that 1 dollar bill is now worth 10 dollars because that person paid for it. Not an apples to apples comparison, but if someone buys a trout from him that is 2.5x what he paid for it, good for him, that is not his problem and he is not a bad person for doing that, the person who bought it is the idiot who over paid for it, but that is not ol VDs fault everyone would do the same exact thing in his shoes.. how is he manipulating anything, how is he falsly making anything he owns "worth" more.. that is just buying and selling at its purest.. if you dont think it is worth that then dont buy it, but he is not doing anything shaddy or illegal..

This is basic Market Manipulation 101. Pumping up false price history for future gain. Has nothing to do with pure supply/demand pricing.

Originally Posted by Links242

This is similar to stock market manipulation.
If there is such things as SEC for sports cards he would be hammered down now.

Exactly

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

I guess I view things differently, If I am spending FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS to buy something I would not let a previous sale on Ebay by a guy named Vegas Dave influence my decision, I and most of the people on here are smarter than that. I would have to make sure that it fits into my own financials and that I would know just because I bought it for 50k doesnt mean I can turn around and sell it to the next person for 50k, but yes if I bought it for 50k and then couldnt sell it for that and took a loss.. YES THAT IS MY FAULT not old vegas dave.. that is just what I believe but w.e

If you were spending $50k to buy something that does not have intrinsic value (like a boat, car, etc), then what exactly would you use to price it? A crystal ball? It's different than stock because you don't have financial models that tell you what it should be worth outside of player performance and historical sales. Creating fake history is price manipulation.

Originally Posted by danjess33

Was this once Daves card? Looks that way! Is it his card again now? Yes, he bought it!!! What happened in between is no ones business and why would anyone care??? How in the world does him buying his own card push up the price, lol? Why would he want to show the world such a thing??? He looks to be a rich man that has a mind for business. I got a Trout off him and he got it back plain and simple!!! I'm sure if he wanted to sell his own card he could of had a friend buy it instead of himself? Also who schills a card with a best offer in which no one can see the sale price unless they take the time to research it on a different site? Several people have asked me what it sold for I never put that information out because some buyers would not want it known! Please stop this non sense!!!! I will not post anything again I stay off of these sites because of this kind of crap!!! Anyone that knows me personally knows exactly what kind of person I am and that I wouldn't take part in any BS!!! Please buy cards with your own mind stop paying attention to comps and letting others tell you what things are worth!!!

Do I ask and then answer my own questions? Sometimes. Does it make my rant any more valid? Meh...

[splitrockgamer]

Wow taking my quote out of context! Love it now I know what it is like to be famous! Think I can run for president some day and win because of Twitter?

[jswest18]

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

Well If I want to buy a card for my PC, then I try and find the cheapest I can get it. I dont buy and sell cards because I dont see the value there, If I want to make money there are FAR easier ways to do it than cards. So I guess if I sell a card I get from opening a box, I put it up for what I think is a bit over a fair price and do OBO and if someone buys it from me then I sell it.. am I bad for doing that?

And how do you determine what a "fair price" is? Do you have a magic 8-ball that spits out prices for cards? An algorithm you've created that generates a "fair price"? Or do you see what other prices are listed for and/or have sold for then make your price determination on that? Let me ask you this, (and for the sake of argument, you didn't want it as part of your PC) if you pulled a 2009 Bowman Chrome Trout base auto from a box today and I offered you $500 for it would you sell it to me? Would that be a "fair price" to you? If not then what would be? What do you consider when putting a "fair price" on a card?

[mcgahee21nfl]

scam artist thief belongs in jail

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by mcgahee21nfl

scam artist thief belongs in jail

Well, I disagree there a bit. I can see an argument for labeling/outing him as a scammer. But I sure don't want my tax money paying for his room and board.

[splitrockgamer]

Originally Posted by jswest18

And how do you determine what a "fair price" is? Do you have a magic 8-ball that spits out prices for cards? An algorithm you've created that generates a "fair price"? Or do you see what other prices are listed for and/or have sold for then make your price determination on that? Let me ask you this, (and for the sake of argument, you didn't want it as part of your PC) if you pulled a 2009 Bowman Chrome Trout base auto from a box today and I offered you $500 for it would you sell it to me? Would that be a "fair price" to you? If not then what would be? What do you consider when putting a "fair price" on a card?

I would know that is not a fair price because trout is argueably the best player in baseball and I know the rarity of the card. Let me ask you this if you offered me 50k for the card did you overpay? What did you base it on recent sales? And so your saying if you bought it for that and were mad that you bought it from me you would be mad at VD for making the recent sales false or is the blame on you for using that recent sale as your only source of what to value it at? .. again it is worth what someone will pay for it..all I am saying.. wether it was a good buy or not is based on that person's interpretation of value

[mcgahee21nfl]

Originally Posted by danjess33

Was this once Daves card? Looks that way! Is it his card again now? Yes, he bought it!!! What happened in between is no ones business and why would anyone care??? How in the world does him buying his own card push up the price, lol? Why would he want to show the world such a thing??? He looks to be a rich man that has a mind for business. I got a Trout off him and he got it back plain and simple!!! I'm sure if he wanted to sell his own card he could of had a friend buy it instead of himself? Also who schills a card with a best offer in which no one can see the sale price unless they take the time to research it on a different site? Several people have asked me what it sold for I never put that information out because some buyers would not want it known! Please stop this non sense!!!! I will not post anything again I stay off of these sites because of this kind of crap!!! Anyone that knows me personally knows exactly what kind of person I am and that I wouldn't take part in any BS!!! Please buy cards with your own mind stop paying attention to comps and letting others tell you what things are worth!!!

post makes me want to puke. belong in jail with him and all of the other criminals that pull this BS. the list is endless sadly.

[Boo]

How long until we get a banned member from this thread? My guess is less than 12 hours.

[splitrockgamer]

Originally Posted by jswest18

And how do you determine what a "fair price" is? Do you have a magic 8-ball that spits out prices for cards? An algorithm you've created that generates a "fair price"? Or do you see what other prices are listed for and/or have sold for then make your price determination on that? Let me ask you this, (and for the sake of argument, you didn't want it as part of your PC) if you pulled a 2009 Bowman Chrome Trout base auto from a box today and I offered you $500 for it would you sell it to me? Would that be a "fair price" to you? If not then what would be? What do you consider when putting a "fair price" on a card?

Like ok take a different example if you went to the recent eBay sales of an orange trout and see it is 400k 400k and 350k.. would YOU go buy 1 for 400k if you had that money? No, right? Because we all know that is not it's true value. Let's say you did that though and came here and said you got scammed into paying 400k for an orange trout, would people on here be like yep VD scammed you by manipulation of the market or would they be like sorry bud you're an idiot?

[seabass97166]

Originally Posted by Boo

How long until we get a banned member from this thread? My guess is less than 12 hours.

Where can I get in on the under?

[splitrockgamer]

Originally Posted by Boo

How long until we get a banned member from this thread? My guess is less than 12 hours.

What's bannable, just a discussion of morality and an unregulated market

[jjeanius]

Originally Posted by seabass97166

Where can I get in on the under?

VD would be the expert on that one. I go to him for all of my gambling advice.

[Bowman1951]

Over/under on 300 pages of this?

[Bowman1951]

Originally Posted by BestRCs

LOL. I know right?

The self touting good guy, comes on name calling and with exclamations points every where right off the bat.

Always a good sign.

I'm surprised he was able to keep his grammar and spelling intact when writing that. I've seen this countless times on the many message boards I've been a part of the past two decades. When backed into a corner, always put as many question marks and exclamation points as possible to make yourself look less guilty.

It never turns out well after that...

[splitrockgamer]

I guess in the end I look at more than recent Ebay sales when I decide the value of something to me or to resell. I would hope that someone who is going to drop $50k + would do the same. You guys all think I am wrong when I say I dont think that is shady and that the "victim" is just as much at blame as the seller.

That is the beauty of all of this, we can disagree, We live in a country where over half the people think we have the wrong person running it, and we cant decide whether a sound clip says Yanny or Laurel, but at least everyone gets to display their opinion and give people a chuckle. At the end of the day this probably doesn't affect anyone in this thread because no one is forced to buy a manipulated orange trout from VD or his manipulated market, I know I sure wont and I am sorry if you want to but can't. Hope yall have an amazing Memorial Day weekend, happy hunting and selling and buying may everything be at its true price with no ebay 1/1s and no price fixing!!

Edit: It is all entertainment: Baseball, Card Collecting, arguing about VD and sports and collecting, please don't forget that

[jswest18]

Originally Posted by splitrockgamer

I would know that is not a fair price because trout is argueably the best player in baseball and I know the rarity of the card. Let me ask you this if you offered me 50k for the card did you overpay? What did you base it on recent sales? And so your saying if you bought it for that and were mad that you bought it from me you would be mad at VD for making the recent sales false or is the blame on you for using that recent sale as your only source of what to value it at? .. again it is worth what someone will pay for it..all I am saying.. wether it was a good buy or not is based on that person's interpretation of value

You're jumping around an answer. Again how do you know that's not a fair price? It can't be simply because he's the best player in baseball or even the rarity of the card. His 2010 Bowman Platinum Refractor Auto (considered a prospect auto/rookie auto as well) can be bought for less that $500. I haven't done the math on the odds but I'd be willing to bet it's as rare if not rarer than his 2009 Bowman Chrome base auto. His #175 2011 Bowman Chrome blue refractor can be bought for close to $500 and it's definitely rarer than his 09 base auto. But, you know that his 09 is more highly sought after right? You know that because the market dictates that. Sales price dictates that market.

Comps in a market are very relevant and often used to determine value. Just look at the housing market. Of course it is incumbent on a buyer to always do their research but in many markets that research is based on recent comparative sales. The card market is no different.

To answer your question, there's no way I'd offer you $50,000 for a 2009 Bowman Chrome base auto because I know what the current market value is of that card based on recent sales. I don't have a problem saying that I look at recent sales as an indicator of market value because 99% of people who deal cards use this. We don't just have some phantom valuation in our minds.