LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[the27guy]

My last post of the night on this.

Thanks to the five of you who I've PM'd with or had conversations with about this today..... I think 4 of you referred to me as a glutton for punishment. Thanks.

This thread was fun and largely prevented me from getting to stuff I needed to. But in all seriousness, this is really important to our community. Trimming is an issue and the graders need to take measures to make sure that this does not happen. They are culpable.

But to the issue at hand, figuring out who trimmed this card is vital. And again, I actually think there should be legal action if that person ever sold (sells) the card. Will anyone take legal action? No, because even trimmed it's worth a lot more than it sold for back in 2014.

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I PM'd Rookies earlier today..... I use to have his cell, but can't find that now. I have not heard back. I think he knows that he shouldn't have said that he sold it to Eric. I think he'd like to take that back. But I'm just guessing. It's weird that Eric will answer any question that I ask him but I can't get Jack to. I understand that all of you don't care because you can't see my conversations with Eric.... you can take my word for it, or not - whatever.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from.... and I agree with Abra that both of those guys should out the guy who trimmed it.... but that's for them to do.

Last thing from me. This is what I'm guessing happened. This is a summation list. This is just a guess via a really rough timeline.

1. The card originally graded a 9 back before 2007.
2. At some point an owner broke it out of the BGS case. This was either Jack, or before Jack owned it (another reason why he might not want to continue to post about this). Somewhere along the way, either before Jack got it or once it was in his possession, it graded a 7.5 as he stated earlier. There's no reason for Jack to state this if it's not true. Then, I'd guess he cracked it back out and sold it to Guy X.
3. Guy X or another guy he sold it to trims the card, grades it a 9 and then sells it to Eric. Or sells it to the guy who sold it to Eric.
4. We (everybody including Eric) finds out today that the card is trimmed.


Am I crazy? Yep, probably. That's what I think happened. Go Blowout go. I still hope Eric and Jack come on in and have some fun telling us what happened so we can figure this out.

Trimming is evil and bad and if you do it, you should go to jail. The end.

[starvela]

Originally Posted by the27guy

My last post of the night on this.

Thanks to the five of you who I've PM'd with or had conversations with about this today..... I think 4 of you referred to me as a glutton for punishment. Thanks.

This thread was fun and largely prevented me from getting to stuff I needed to. But in all seriousness, this is really important to our community. Trimming is an issue and the graders need to take measures to make sure that this does not happen. They are culpable.

But to the issue at hand, figuring out who trimmed this card is vital. And again, I actually think there should be legal action if that person ever sold (sells) the card. Will anyone take legal action? No, because even trimmed it's worth a lot more than it sold for back in 2014.

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I PM'd Rookies earlier today..... I use to have his cell, but can't find that now. I have not heard back. I think he knows that he shouldn't have said that he sold it to Eric. I think he'd like to take that back. But I'm just guessing. It's weird that Eric will answer any question that I ask him but I can't get Jack to. I understand that all of you don't care because you can't see my conversations with Eric.... you can take my word for it, or not - whatever.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from.... and I agree with Abra that both of those guys should out the guy who trimmed it.... but that's for them to do.

Last thing from me. This is what I'm guessing happened. This is a summation list. This is just a guess via a really rough timeline.

1. The card originally graded a 9 back before 2007.
2. At some point an owner broke it out of the BGS case. This was either Jack, or before Jack owned it (another reason why he might not want to continue to post about this). Somewhere along the way, either before Jack got it or once it was in his possession, it graded a 7.5 as he stated earlier. There's no reason for Jack to state this if it's not true. Then, I'd guess he cracked it back out and sold it to Guy X.
3. Guy X or another guy he sold it to trims the card, grades it a 9 and then sells it to Eric. Or sells it to the guy who sold it to Eric.
4. We (everybody including Eric) finds out today that the card is trimmed.


Am I crazy? Yep, probably. That's what I think happened. Go Blowout go. I still hope Eric and Jack come on in and have some fun telling us what happened so we can figure this out.

Trimming is evil and bad and if you do it, you should go to jail. The end.

Great detailed info and all that could and likely be true but you keep bringing up the 74/99 mentioned by rookies, but what about about the other trimmed BGS 9 87/99, Remember, 2 are being questioned and you are only discussing one.. The other 87/99 is actually showing it got graded with 3 other cards that some or all were sold or listed (excluding the Lebron) by BNC...Whats the info on that one...

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by starvela

Great detailed info and all that could and likely be true but you keep bringing up the 74/99 mentioned by rookies, but what about about the other trimmed card 87/99, Remember, 2 are being questioned and you are only discussing one.. The other 87/99 is actually showing it got graded with 3 other cards that some or all were sold or listed (excluding the Lebron) by BNC...Whats the info on that one...

I’m trying to solve one at a time. I haven’t even looked at the second. But I agree that we should get to that. Just gets convoluted. Trying to keep it simple for now.

[cardsdownunder]

Rookies, thanks so much for the valuable and constructive information you provided the community!! That was my goal with this thread! Def not trying to roast these poor schmucks, but hoping everyone is aware of these issues.

[cardsdownunder]

The 74/99 issue is settled --- once a nice BGS 9, then got damaged, then got trimmed, now a clean 9 again! Thanks mates for contributing the pictures proofing it!

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by cardsdownunder

The 74/99 issue is settled --- once a nice BGS 9, then got damaged, then got trimmed, now a clean 9 again! Thanks mates for contributing the pictures proofing it!

That was solved hours ago.

Finding out who did it is what matters.

[cardsdownunder]

Originally Posted by the27guy

That was solved hours ago.

Finding out who did it is what matters.

Absolutely! Hopefully Eric will explain this!

[starvela]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I’m trying to solve one at a time. I haven’t even looked at the second. But I agree that we should get to that. Just gets convoluted. Trying to keep it simple for now.

I understand and I'm sure everyone wants to hear about the 87/99 considering the serial # and results of that...

[jmscoggin]

If someone was impugning my integrity and inferring that I had trimmed a card let alone a six figure card, you'd better damn well bet that I'd be here posting, professing my innocence and outing any damn fool that owned the card before me who might be the actual culprit. I have to question anyone that wouldn't do the same.

The fact that one person owns not one but two such cards and refuses to talk or explain how the cards came into their possession? Sorry, I'm a very loyal guy but I don't risk my reputation and/or integrity for anyone and the fact that the person in question here is willing to makes me seriously wonder as to why.

[the27guy]

Sorry, I'm a very loyal guy but I don't risk my reputation and/or integrity for anyone and the fact that the person in question here is willing to makes me seriously wonder as to why.

This is a good question.

There are many reasons - though I don’t know anything specific.

1. Because you honestly believe they didn’t do anything wrong and it was the person before them.
2. Because you believe there will be no end to the questions regardless of what you say.
3. Because the card is not for sale anyways.
4. Because outting that person could result in other cards being brought into question.

There’s a lot of reasons why. I am just thinking out loud. Nothing in this hobby happens in a vacuum.

[Siberian13]

My last post of the night on this...then keeps posting. You don’t have to defend anyone. They need to defend themselves. Eric and Rookies both look bad until they provide the evidence to clear themselves. It’s that simple.

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Sorry, I'm a very loyal guy but I don't risk my reputation and/or integrity for anyone and the fact that the person in question here is willing to makes me seriously wonder as to why.

This is a good question.

There are many reasons - though I don’t know anything specific.

1. Because you honestly believe they didn’t do anything wrong and it was the person before them.
2. Because you believe there will be no end to the questions regardless of what you say.
3. Because the card is not for sale anyways.
4. Because outting that person could result in other cards being brought into question.

There’s a lot of reasons why. I am just thinking out loud. Nothing in this hobby happens in a vacuum.

I was referring to the current owner of the Lebrons in question but since you brought it up, yes, I seriously question why you are continuing to be his mouthpiece. Does it not concern you in the slightest that he is hiding out and refusing to defend his own honor? An innocent man would be screaming from the rooftops that the charges against him are incorrect.

1.) Let him do the reasoning. Unless you are hired counsel, I'm not sure why you are the one fighting this fight.

2.) This isn't going to fly, not at this point. A card of this magnitude likely has a very clear and provable lineage. Name the previous owners, narrow down the guilty party and the questions cease.

3.) Really? This is a massive cop out.

4.) Good. If someone did shady things to one card they probably did them to many. This is probably the closest thing to the truth we've heard all day though. I bet that there are a bunch of altered cards and someone would rather one be publicly outed and devalued than many. Again, it begs the question, why would one person have so many cards where scrutiny would be an issue?

Putting yourself in harms way to defend a friend can be noble to a point but I think that point has long since passed. You are now risking your own integrity and reputation and the person in question needs to put on his big boy pants and speak for himself.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

My last post of the night on this...then keeps posting. You don’t have to defend anyone. They need to defend themselves. Eric and Rookies both look bad until they provide the evidence to clear themselves. It’s that simple.

Can’t help myself. But whenever I feel like the judgments come too fast and without context, I typically suspend judgment and share why. It’s probably a character flaw.

We’ve got a mob mentality here sometimes. It’s not exactly the best learning environment.

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Can’t help myself. But whenever I feel like the judgments come too fast and without context, I typically suspend judgment and share why. It’s probably a character flaw.

We’ve got a mob mentality here sometimes. It’s not exactly the best learning environment.

I respect what you've been trying to do and have the very same character flaw. Having said that, at some point it gets to the point where you are so caught up that people start to believe you are involved. Like I said before, I'm all for defending a friend but if that friend is a grown man and is refusing to speak for himself, I'd be forced to question why.

Yes, the mob can be rough here sometimes but I have yet to see it in this thread, quite the opposite in fact, I think people have been pretty patient and reasonable.

[jmscoggin]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Nothing in this hobby happens in a vacuum.

I can't seem to shake this line, care to elaborate?

[alias21]

Originally Posted by the27guy

My last post of the night on this.

Thanks to the five of you who I've PM'd with or had conversations with about this today..... I think 4 of you referred to me as a glutton for punishment. Thanks.

This thread was fun and largely prevented me from getting to stuff I needed to. But in all seriousness, this is really important to our community. Trimming is an issue and the graders need to take measures to make sure that this does not happen. They are culpable.

But to the issue at hand, figuring out who trimmed this card is vital. And again, I actually think there should be legal action if that person ever sold (sells) the card. Will anyone take legal action? No, because even trimmed it's worth a lot more than it sold for back in 2014.

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I PM'd Rookies earlier today..... I use to have his cell, but can't find that now. I have not heard back. I think he knows that he shouldn't have said that he sold it to Eric. I think he'd like to take that back. But I'm just guessing. It's weird that Eric will answer any question that I ask him but I can't get Jack to. I understand that all of you don't care because you can't see my conversations with Eric.... you can take my word for it, or not - whatever.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from.... and I agree with Abra that both of those guys should out the guy who trimmed it.... but that's for them to do.

Last thing from me. This is what I'm guessing happened. This is a summation list. This is just a guess via a really rough timeline.

1. The card originally graded a 9 back before 2007.
2. At some point an owner broke it out of the BGS case. This was either Jack, or before Jack owned it (another reason why he might not want to continue to post about this). Somewhere along the way, either before Jack got it or once it was in his possession, it graded a 7.5 as he stated earlier. There's no reason for Jack to state this if it's not true. Then, I'd guess he cracked it back out and sold it to Guy X.
3. Guy X or another guy he sold it to trims the card, grades it a 9 and then sells it to Eric. Or sells it to the guy who sold it to Eric.
4. We (everybody including Eric) finds out today that the card is trimmed.


Am I crazy? Yep, probably. That's what I think happened. Go Blowout go. I still hope Eric and Jack come on in and have some fun telling us what happened so we can figure this out.

Trimming is evil and bad and if you do it, you should go to jail. The end.

You say Eric will answer any question you ask him. Well maybe ask him if he bought it directly from jack? That’s the only question left...if I got the names right. I’m assuming jack (rookies/op) didn’t trim this otherwise why start this thread? So the person who trimmed this is Eric (your boy) or whoever he bought it from. So who did he buy it from since he’ll answer any question.

[KhalDrogo]

Note to self: don’t buy from BNC!

Silence speaks. It’s silly to not comment personally to defend your business at this point.

[chuckerrrr]

I feel for the27guy. Hes now taking all the load on this matter. Please guys give him a break. The way he has dealt with this has been with open mind and like all of us trying to get down to the bottom of it with out making accusations before we get more evidence. In saying that instead of us going through the27guy for information from especially Eric, can we just somehow get Rookies and Eric to please come forward on here with more information/evidences as to clear themselves and expose any fraud done. We can talk all we want. Only those guys can clear themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by chuckerrrr

I feel for the27guy. Hes now taking all the load on this matter. Please guys give him a break. The way he has dealt with this has been with open mind and like all of us trying to get down to the bottom of it with out making accusations before we get more evidence. In saying that instead of us going through the27guy for information from especially Eric, can we just somehow get Rookies and Eric to please come forward on here with more information/evidences as to clear themselves and expose any fraud done. We can talk all we want. Only those guys can clear themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really appreciate this sentiment. Thank you. I fundamentally believe people should be encouraged to say what they think and believe and discouraging those things is detrimental to the greater good. In business and all places in communities we are better when this is the accepted policy.....

But I’ve been on blowout long enough to know this is how this thread would go eventually. Still, I’d rather call it as I see it and let people decide for themselves. My reputation will be fine. I’m not involved. Heck, I actually called out Rookies to give us more data in the first place. Lol. And if there are people who think less of me for having an open mind and not immediately casting judgment at a hobby friend (with far from perfect evidence) then I probably don’t really want to be associated with those people in the first place.

Eric? Jack? Crickets.

[jjeanius]

Originally Posted by the27guy

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from....

Sorry, but this absolutely does NOT wash. In his very first post in this thread, rookies made it abundantly clear that he traded the card directly to Eric. That was the whole point of his post. So, if that’s not true (and he’s protecting some mysterious third party), why bother to incriminate Eric at all? Or, to your point: If he is trying to protect someone else, how does he accomplish this goal by incriminating Eric? The easiest way to protect a guilty third party is to not post in this thread to begin with.

The fact remains: There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence here, AND ALL OF IT POINTS TO ERIC. I am all for “innocent until proven guilty”, but his silence in the face of such accusations is damning.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by jjeanius

Sorry, but this absolutely does NOT wash. In his very first post in this thread, rookies made it abundantly clear that he traded the card directly to Eric. That was the whole point of his post. So, if that’s not true (and he’s protecting some mysterious third party), why bother to incriminate Eric at all? Or, to your point: If he is trying to protect someone else, how does he accomplish this goal by incriminating Eric? The easiest way to protect a guilty third party is to not post in this thread to begin with.

The fact remains: There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence here, AND ALL OF IT POINTS TO ERIC. I am all for “innocent until proven guilty”, but his silence in the face of such accusations is damning.

I agree Eric should come here. I have told him that.

And maybe all the circumstantial evidence is pointing the right way. Maybe he did trim it.

But isn’t it a little curious that jack hasn’t come back yet? I just want one firm confirmation that the deal was just between he and Eric.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I agree Eric should come here. I have told him that.

And maybe all the circumstantial evidence is pointing the right way. Maybe he did trim it.

But isn’t it a little curious that jack hasn’t come back yet? I just want one firm confirmation that the deal was just between he and Eric.

If both guys were protecting some 3rd party then what does that say about their character. Just man up and speak the truth.

[jjeanius]

Originally Posted by the27guy

But isn’t it a little curious that jack hasn’t come back yet? I just want one firm confirmation that the deal was just between he and Eric.

Jack stated this in post #9, and confirmed it again in post #26, where he also said he would not be posting again in this thread. How many more confirmations do you need..?

Jack has stated his case - twice - while Eric still hasn’t bothered to make a single post to clear the air.

[smalltown]

These are the points i take issue with and i'm quoting you because you say this is what Eric (BNC) said:

Originally Posted by the27guy

Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

Originally Posted by the27guy

4. Because outting that person could result in other cards being brought into question.

He knows where the card came from. He "now" knows it's trimmed. To me what this says is he hopes it will all blow over so he doesn't have to deal with taking a hit on one or more high end cards. The card is altered. There is no question of this.

Originally Posted by the27guy

3. Because the card is not for sale anyways.

He sells high end cards. Let's not kid ourselves he had plans to try and move it eventually and probably still does. I'm sure this will put that on the back burner. But i hope people who are looking to buy a lebron of that caliber see this and or other threads that show that the card is altered.

How he deals with that card going forward will be the true test of what kind of guy he is in this hobby. If he obtained it unknowingly altered i feel for him - it's a potential loss of multiple thousands of dollars in value. But it doesn't change the fact that it's his problem to deal with now.

[starvela]

Why does everybody only discuss the one that involves rookies, there is another one at question..So, let's pretend rookies never posted anything, there is still another at question that is even more alarming considering the details that have been found...