Fanatic's impact on football card market

[k13]

They will use Prizm/NT/etc. In soccer/ufc.
Their expanses already lowered by not having nfl/mlb/nba.

Extra people get fired.

UD is chugging along with basically hockey.

They can easily do 40 sets with other sports.

Soccer sells better than nfl/mlb anyway.

[tnvolfan16]

Originally Posted by k13

They will use Prizm/NT/etc. In soccer/ufc.
Their expanses already lowered by not having nfl/mlb/nba.

Extra people get fired.

UD is chugging along with basically hockey.

They can easily do 40 sets with other sports.

Soccer sells better than nfl/mlb anyway.

actually i think upper deck will lose the nhl, and panini and topps will lose soccer, nascar and F1 eventually to fanatics. but upper deck might be the ones to benefit IF topps were to sell. they might be able to go after WWE, star wars (since they already have marvel), and goudy might be a beneficiary of A&G going away. UD has two entities that i will be most interested in keeping an eye on..Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. Will fanatics make a play for either or both? I am guessing they will.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by k13

If the value is gone then there's no point in selling it at all.
Soccer is the future anyway and topps/panini still have that.

Why sell a supposed worthless company that's not costing you anything anymore.
Just spite fanatics and keep it.

If a $1000 card goes to $14...I'd rather keep it then sell it.

If panini only does 30 million a year what is fanatics going to do?
Market will never be hotter than recently.

The value being diminished and the value being gone are two different things. If anyone thinks the likes of Topps/UD/Panini America are the same today, as they were last month when each could still produced licensed goods, you are nuts.

The reason they all still hold "some" value, is because Fanatics can acquire all, part, or maybe just lease their brands to make cards.

Make no mistake, the value that is still there pretty much only applies to Fanatics, being the one company that can actually do something big with their properties.

Fanatics doesn't have a deal with all the soccer clubs. Topps, Panini or you can strike a deal to make those cards. You don't need the 50 brands in your stable to make soccer cards. Pull a couple titles, use those, and sell the rest. Just like Panini did when it sold the name and rights to Leaf years ago.

[itsinusall]

This deal should open people’s eyes that (most) cards are not investments. They are collectibles that people buy and sell as a derivative of the players hype, expectations, and performance.

The landscape in 5 years from now is gonna be so different from now. Likely a third of the people currently “collecting” will not be even interested.

[k13]

They still have 5 years of nfl/nba, soccer, ufc.

That's an eternity in this hobby.
All the 90s collecters/investors were all gone in 5 years or less.

This will happen here.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by k13

They still have 5 years of nfl/nba, soccer, ufc.

That's an eternity in this hobby.
All the 90s collecters/investors were all gone in 5 years or less.

This will happen here.

That is the magic of corporate America. Which is most likely, that Panini will keep making product, as they go down with the ship and sink completely in a few years when their rights are up?

Or, Panini sells their Panini America division to Fanatics sooner, since they will still have an operating company for a few more years, and Panini America is able to exit the market with a buyout, VS just going defunct, or running a much, much smaller version of itself.

In other words, do you sell your company while your company still holds some value? Or do you continue to run your company for a few more years, until it has little to no value.

My money is on Fanatics entering the card game a LOT sooner, than just waiting for these existing rights to run out. And that entry will be way of mergers and acquisitions. And they will do so the same way Panini got in, and that was to buyout DLP, gain their brands and staff, and slowly inject their own brand into the mix over the next few years. That is why it went from Leaf Certified, to Donruss Certified to eventually Panini Certified once they got established.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by k13

They still have 5 years of nfl/nba, soccer, ufc.

That's an eternity in this hobby.
All the 90s collecters/investors were all gone in 5 years or less.

This will happen here.

I kind of agree here. I can't help but think that a lot of the new faces around the hobby will melt away. I saw it in the 90s as well. That's not to say the Blue Chip cards won't retain their gains from this period, but Zion Prizm PSA 10s and similar stuff holding value? It's just unlikely. Maybe like Rubies, PMG, certain subsets (Kaboom, Color Blast, and the like) hold value?

I feel like a lot of people , including Wall Street (with no institutional history of card collecting) maybe jumped the gun here.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I kind of agree here. I can't help but think that a lot of the new faces around the hobby will melt away. I saw it in the 90s as well. That's not to say the Blue Chip cards won't retain their gains from this period, but Zion Prizm PSA 10s and similar stuff holding value? It's just unlikely. Maybe like Rubies, PMG, certain subsets (Kaboom, Color Blast, and the like) hold value?

I feel like a lot of people , including Wall Street (with no institutional history of card collecting) maybe jumped the gun here.

Yup, I collected in the 90's. Going from the 80's into the 90's boom, was night and day with who was collecting, and where you could find cards.

In the 80's, the Toy Stores had some cards, not that there was a lot of different cards to chose from. You also could get some from the big box stores, and dime stores at the time. I remember buying a lot from Woolworth, McCorys and Jupiter. The only other places to go, where some hobby shops that sold RC cars, model trains and coins/stamps.

Once the boom hit in the 90's, every drug store sold cards, as well as everyone above. You had the advent of actual card shops, and not just hobby shops that also had cards. You could walk into a Sam's club, or other Warehouse type stores, and see skids of them stacked up.

You went from having to go to mostly hobby shows, to having full blown card shows at a bunch of places each weekend.

Enter the 00's, and all reports were on LCS going away, and the hobby slowing to a crawl. If not for the internet, and the ability to track down and collect exactly what you want, 24/7, the hobby would be almost dead, but a lot of those tire kickers were long gone by then.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Overall I think competition is great and leads to innovation.
From the 70's till 1988 Topps had a stranglehold on Football cards and basically kept putting out the same set every year.
Then 1989 happened and Pro Set and Score produced football cards and blew Topps out of the water. In 1990 Action Packed and Fleer entered the fray and yet Topps kept the same old boring set. It wasn't till 1991 Topps Stadium Club that Topps produced something truly monumental at the time. So competition to me is always better in the card market.
As far as everyone hoping Fanatics buys Upper Deck, Topps and Panini and brings back the favorite sets whose to say they won't water them down like Panini did? I mean look at National Treasures the first few years when Playoff owned it and look at it now.
The one cool thing if they bought Upper Deck would be getting Jordan cards/autos back in a Bulls uniform instead of the endless stream of Tar Heel cards.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

Overall I think competition is great and leads to innovation.
From the 70's till 1988 Topps had a stranglehold on Football cards and basically kept putting out the same set every year.
Then 1989 happened and Pro Set and Score produced football cards and blew Topps out of the water. In 1990 Action Packed and Fleer entered the fray and yet Topps kept the same old boring set. It wasn't till 1991 Topps Stadium Club that Topps produced something truly monumental at the time. So competition to me is always better in the card market.
As far as everyone hoping Fanatics buys Upper Deck, Topps and Panini and brings back the favorite sets whose to say they won't water them down like Panini did? I mean look at National Treasures the first few years when Playoff owned it and look at it now.
The one cool thing if they bought Upper Deck would be getting Jordan cards/autos back in a Bulls uniform instead of the endless stream of Tar Heel cards.

I do agree that competition can lead to innovation. But I wouldn't say that is the end all to get new ideas to market.

If a town just has one casino, and that casino never changes their machines, offer promos or otherwise gives you a reason to come back, they will lose customers. Its the same reason why Disney opens new shows, parades, restaurants or rides all the time.

Even with Panini being the lone supplier of licensed NBA & NFL cards for all this time, they still have to keep coming up with reasons for us to come back for more.

Since they took over, we have seen the advent of points, which went from people hating them to stock piling them. The use of said points for exclusive content on their website. The launch of FOTL products, with additional content. The advent of the blockchain for digital assets. And a retail offering, that would have been unheard of 10+ years ago.

I remember when retail was all trash. Most of it was just hit-less versions of hobby packs. The best you could hope for, was to get your hands on some Excel or Fairfield repacks, that actually had hobby packs in them.

Now, you have retail exclusive content. You have Mega boxes and special blasters. You have Fanatics, Walmart & Target exclusive versions of product.

Really, if Panini just said we make cards, so lets keep just doing that, they would have left money on the table. Them wanting to continue to get your money, or better yet, them wanting even more of your money, has lead them to innovate without any competition.

[Seahawks fan]

Originally Posted by Grid

I do agree that competition can lead to innovation. But I wouldn't say that is the end all to get new ideas to market.
.

Worst case scenario would be like Madden. Bought the exclusive rights back in 06 because they had their biggest competition in 05. Then they released some solid games here and there but when they lost the rights to make college games and import your college draft into your Madden game..sales and quality slipped. In order to keep up the new ideas we got Ultimate Madden... let's make a ton of money off of degenerate gamblers and sell them digital packs of cards so sneaker heads can show off what they have in the now/new trend. They make a ton of money off of that and don't really have to improve their games because there is no other competition. I realize as a business aspect that is smart but the ones that actually enjoyed playing the game either play older versions, long for competition to come back, or just don't play it at all. What you have left is a popular entity that still makes lots of money but is garbage and with some actual effort they could do so much more but they don't have to.

I feel the card market could go in the same direction (especially if digital releases count in their 50 releases a year mandate) Lots more NFTs, digital cards/currency, manufactured memorabilia, etc. It is all easier to do so the company saves millions. As a collector you either adapt, leave, or just like Madden play the older versions/buy vintage because the product was better.

[letsgoredwings9]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Worst case scenario would be like Madden. Bought the exclusive rights back in 06 because they had their biggest competition in 05. Then they released some solid games here and there but when they lost the rights to make college games and import your college draft into your Madden game..sales and quality slipped. In order to keep up the new ideas we got Ultimate Madden... let's make a ton of money off of degenerate gamblers and sell them digital packs of cards so sneaker heads can show off what they have in the now/new trend. They make a ton of money off of that and don't really have to improve their games because there is no other competition. I realize as a business aspect that is smart but the ones that actually enjoyed playing the game either play older versions, long for competition to come back, or just don't play it at all. What you have left is a popular entity that still makes lots of money but is garbage and with some actual effort they could do so much more but they don't have to.

I feel the card market could go in the same direction (especially if digital releases count in their 50 releases a year mandate) Lots more NFTs, digital cards/currency, manufactured memorabilia, etc. It is all easier to do so the company saves millions. As a collector you either adapt, leave, or just like Madden play the older versions/buy vintage because the product was better.

Man, same thoughts here.

[whoshotjr]

I'm concerned they will get rid of the kid reporter cards

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[nera20]

i think the Fanatics deal could end up being a good thingfor the hobby they can go to topps, upper deck, and panini and say you work for us and produce the products since we have all the rights and for each sport they are required to produce 15 products a year for each sport and and all products contain team logos and names.

This way as a hobby the collectors get more choices and no non licensed products.

Football and basketball get Topps Chrome, Topps Flagship, Definitive

Basketball, Baseball and Football get Exquisite, Sp Authentic again

Baseball gets Flawless, National Treasures

All with Logos again

Could be great for the Hobby and Collectors

Only flippers may have a issue with somethings

Overall if handled the right way this could be fantastic but only time will tell.

[CapMarvelous]

Originally Posted by nera20

i think the Fanatics deal could end up being a good thingfor the hobby they can go to topps, upper deck, and panini and say you work for us and produce the products since we have all the rights and for each sport they are required to produce 15 products a year for each sport and and all products contain team logos and names.

This way as a hobby the collectors get more choices and no non licensed products.

Football and basketball get Topps Chrome, Topps Flagship, Definitive

Basketball, Baseball and Football get Exquisite, Sp Authentic again

Baseball gets Flawless, National Treasures

All with Logos again

Could be great for the Hobby and Collectors

Only flippers may have a issue with somethings

Overall if handled the right way this could be fantastic but only time will tell.

Seeing football gets Topps flagship and Topps chrome again would make me smile. And I'm talking classic white border, not that 2015 hot garbage type design.

A return to Upper Deck base for football is also super intriguing too.

Would be like a buffet for card collectors to have all three major manufacturers still operating even if under the same banner.

[WallyatJCCards]

Originally Posted by tnvolfan16

panini and topps will lose soccer

Why is that? Who would produce Soccer? Seems like less and less options for us all in the future if/when different licensing shakes out

[tnvolfan16]

Originally Posted by WallyatJCCards

Why is that? Who would produce Soccer? Seems like less and less options for us all in the future if/when different licensing shakes out

fanatics will have soccer. i cant believe it has not already been said because it is so simple, all you have to do is look at the front page of fanatics website where it says "SHOP YOUR FAVORITE LEAGUE". If you see an icon for a league, then fanatics will be doing their cards before it is over. Fanatics already has a lot stronger relationship with these leagues that any card company ever could. before it is over, they will produce cards for these leagues and it will be an easy sell for them to get the licenses. it will just be a part of their overall merchandising deals with them. ;ess and less options appears to be what all these leagues want. my guess is it gives them a better control grip on what is produced

[PrimeTimeScott]

Originally Posted by whoshotjr

I'm concerned they will get rid of the kid reporter cards

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Won't they think of the children!!!