Joe Montana’s best QB of all time

[jhssketchcards]

I like Aikman too, but he had the fortune of playing with the most stellar offensive weaponry we’ve seen in a long time, maybe ever. Novacek and Johnston were excellent at TE and FB and both had great hands, devastating blocking, Irving was as good a WR as you could find, and of course Emmitt Smith was arguably the best RB for that period with Sanders topping many lists. Aikman also had the protection of the most dominate OL in history and didn’t have to do too much as far as taking the game over. He didn’t have to pass for 400+ while Emmitt was carrying for 100+ and 2 TDs a game it seemed.
Brady never had an All Pro RB, Montana had Craig (underrated dual threat weapon ala Marshall Faulk).
Bradshaw had probably as close to what Aikman had as far as talent with Bradshaw having superior WR with Swann and Stallworth.


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[Dallas Cowboys]

Troy Aikman:
Let's talk about him.
He played in a very heavy run first offense. Emmitt had 4 rushing titles and is the all time rushing touchdown leader. There are only so many offensive stats to go around in an NFL game. If your ground game is eating up most of your yards and touchdowns it's just understandable that your Quarterback is not going to have huge stats. If face anytime the Cowboys got in the red zone Emmitt was automatic.
Aikman had great accuracy and precision. He had a command of the offense, worked hard and could read defenses. He had a strong arm and could easily make the long bombs with a tight spiral. It's not like he was throwing ducks out there.
What gets me is we want to tear down quarterbacks that were chokers in the playoffs. We expect them to come through in the playoffs and praise those that do. Except Aikman. Aikman played his best when it mattered most but all people want to point out is "he had great teams." Yes and he was a big reason those teams were great. Watching him I never expected him to mess up like I did watching Romo or now with Dak.
I have no doubt that if you put Aikman in today's passing era or had he played in his era on a pass first offense he would have put up huge stats. You want to see how Aikman would have done get on YouTube and watch his Super Bowl XXVII MVP performance.
And that offensive line was really good but not as good as you guys think it was. It has gotten overrated as the years have gone by. And that's coming from a Cowboys fan that was there.
Finally if you Cowboy haters are always going to bring up the great teams they had whenever Aikman or Emmitt are discussed then let's lose the hypocrisy and double standard. I expect whenever Jerry Rice is discussed that it's brought up that he had great teams as well. In fact the year he was drafted his team was far better than the Cowboys of Aikman(1989) and Emmitt's(1990) drafts.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

Troy Aikman:
Let's talk about him.
He played in a very heavy run first offense. Emmitt had 4 rushing titles and is the all time rushing touchdown leader. There are only so many offensive stats to go around in an NFL game. If your ground game is eating up most of your yards and touchdowns it's just understandable that your Quarterback is not going to have huge stats. If face anytime the Cowboys got in the red zone Emmitt was automatic.
Aikman had great accuracy and precision. He had a command of the offense, worked hard and could read defenses. He had a strong arm and could easily make the long bombs with a tight spiral. It's not like he was throwing ducks out there.
What gets me is we want to tear down quarterbacks that were chokers in the playoffs. We expect them to come through in the playoffs and praise those that do. Except Aikman. Aikman played his best when it mattered most but all people want to point out is "he had great teams." Yes and he was a big reason those teams were great. Watching him I never expected him to mess up like I did watching Romo or now with Dak.
I have no doubt that if you put Aikman in today's passing era or had he played in his era on a pass first offense he would have put up huge stats. You want to see how Aikman would have done get on YouTube and watch his Super Bowl XXVII MVP performance.
And that offensive line was really good but not as good as you guys think it was. It has gotten overrated as the years have gone by. And that's coming from a Cowboys fan that was there.
Finally if you Cowboy haters are always going to bring up the great teams they had whenever Aikman or Emmitt are discussed then let's lose the hypocrisy and double standard. I expect whenever Jerry Rice is discussed that it's brought up that he had great teams as well. In fact the year he was drafted his team was far better than the Cowboys of Aikman(1989) and Emmitt's(1990) drafts.

If you want to talk about Aikman as a solid HOFer, go ahead. He earned it.

But the fact that he only received and MVP vote once in his career, and that he was washed by the time he hit age 31, means that he just wasn't on the same level as the top tier all time guys.

And before we get into the whole "that era was tougher on QBs argument", guys like Montana, Elway, Marino, Young, and Moon all played some great football well into their 30s.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by tjforce

If you want to talk about Aikman as a solid HOFer, go ahead. He earned it.

But the fact that he only received and MVP vote once in his career, and that he was washed by the time he hit age 31, means that he just wasn't on the same level as the top tier all time guys.

And before we get into the whole "that era was tougher on QBs argument", guys like Montana, Elway, Marino, Young, and Moon all played some great football well into their 30s.

He also wasn’t a choker in the playoffs and Super Bowls. Played his best when it mattered most. He didn’t get MVP votes because he had Emmitt. He had to retire early due to major back issues and not concussions like most people think. Had he been healthy he could have kept playing. And my argument stands put him on a pass first offense he would have had huge numbers.


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[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Brady had spare parts for receivers minus a year with Moss,Montana literally had the GOAT receiver this is such a silly discussion! Bring on the new season!

Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon for two rings

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Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

I like Aikman too, but he had the fortune of playing with the most stellar offensive weaponry we’ve seen in a long time, maybe ever. Novacek and Johnston were excellent at TE and FB and both had great hands, devastating blocking, Irving was as good a WR as you could find, and of course Emmitt Smith was arguably the best RB for that period with Sanders topping many lists. Aikman also had the protection of the most dominate OL in history and didn’t have to do too much as far as taking the game over. He didn’t have to pass for 400+ while Emmitt was carrying for 100+ and 2 TDs a game it seemed.
Brady never had an All Pro RB, Montana had Craig (underrated dual threat weapon ala Marshall Faulk).
Bradshaw had probably as close to what Aikman had as far as talent with Bradshaw having superior WR with Swann and Stallworth.


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Montana won his first ring throwing to Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and handing off to Earl Cooper and Levnil Elliott.

Craig didn't show up until a few years later, and even then, he wasn't even a RB, he was a FB. Wendall Tyler was the RB.

Brady had Corey Dillon in 2004, when he won his 3rd ring. Dillon ran for over 1500 yards and made the Pro Bowl.

both Montana and Brady won rings with non-HOF pass catchers and runners, in the old school NFL era.

then the game changed for one of them, and he went off with some crazy fantasy football stats.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

He also wasn’t a choker in the playoffs and Super Bowls. Played his best when it mattered most. He didn’t get MVP votes because he had Emmitt. He had to retire early due to major back issues and not concussions like most people think. Had he been healthy he could have kept playing. And my argument stands put him on a pass first offense he would have had huge numbers.


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until Favre showed up, i thought Aikman was the toughest QB in the league. i was never a Cowboys fan (go Niners!), but i respected the crap out of that Dallas squad. i grew up in South Texas, so all the Cowboy games were on tv, and i really grew up with Aikman. he was a tough SOB, and everybody remembers that 11-sack game beating he took against Philly.

after 1995, his career really went downhill fast, and i think a lot of that was because of the beatings he took early in his career.

he's not from Texas, but we like to claim him as one of our own.

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Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Montana vs. Brady in their Super Bowl-winning years *before the rule change(s)*


Brady

9 games (3 SB wins)
11 TD's/3 INT's
63.1% completion rate
216.8 yds/game

Montana

12 games (4 SB wins)
32 TD's/10 INT's
66.5% completion rate
270.3 yds/game

Interpret it how you will.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by tjforce

*Also. Why do so many people think that other folks are getting mad because they have a different take then them? Isn't this the point of an online forum, to discuss and debate?

Do people actually get mad about this kind of stuff?

because for some people, any criticism or healthy debate that knocks down Tom Brady in any way, or questions his rankings on the all-time greats list, is a no-no.

nobody is questioning how great of a player he was, but i do agree with Montana as far as each player should be ranked in terms of how great they were per generation.

Montana's greatness is very different from Brady's. Favre's greatness can't be compared to that of Aaron Rodgers for example. Brees's stats can't be compared rightfully to that of Marino's.

[Dallas Cowboys]

Originally Posted by oplum29

until Favre showed up, i thought Aikman was the toughest QB in the league. i was never a Cowboys fan (go Niners!), but i respected the crap out of that Dallas squad. i grew up in South Texas, so all the Cowboy games were on tv, and i really grew up with Aikman. he was a tough SOB, and everybody remembers that 11-sack game beating he took against Philly.

after 1995, his career really went downhill fast, and i think a lot of that was because of the beatings he took early in his career.

he's not from Texas, but we like to claim him as one of our own.

I appreciate your response. Lifelong Cowboys fan but I've always been a big Montana fan. Heck if you grew up in the 80's you couldn't help but love Joe Cool.

As far as Aikman after 1995 - well for one thing the drafting got really bad for years after Jimmy left. So Aikman had to deal with bad drafting with the exception of Larry Allen. Heck imagine how his career had went had they drafted Randy Moss in 1998.
And what people forget is the bad coaches he had after Jimmy left - Barry Switzer, yes a he won a Super Bowl but face it he was in over his head in the NFL, then Chan Gailey and finally Dave Campo. Yikes. People never bring this up about Aikman.
Compare that to:
Bart Starr - Vince Lombardi his whole career.
Terry Bradshaw - Chuck Noll his whole career.
Joe Montana - Bill Walsh for most of his career.
Tom Brady - Bill Belichick most of his career.
Drew Brees - Sean Payton most of his career.

Aikman had to deal with Johnson leaving just as things were going great, and then Jerry Jones meddling and drafting, plus a carousel of bad coaches. That makes a difference in a career.

[Skipscards]

From a pure ability standpoint, I can see why Montana picks Marino.

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Originally Posted by Skipscards

From a pure ability standpoint, I can see why Montana picks Marino.

i think Marino was the best passer in NFL history. Moon to me might be #2.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Dallas Cowboys

I appreciate your response. Lifelong Cowboys fan but I've always been a big Montana fan. Heck if you grew up in the 80's you couldn't help but love Joe Cool.

As far as Aikman after 1995 - well for one thing the drafting got really bad for years after Jimmy left. So Aikman had to deal with bad drafting with the exception of Larry Allen. Heck imagine how his career had went had they drafted Randy Moss in 1998.
And what people forget is the bad coaches he had after Jimmy left - Barry Switzer, yes a he won a Super Bowl but face it he was in over his head in the NFL, then Chan Gailey and finally Dave Campo. Yikes. People never bring this up about Aikman.
Compare that to:
Bart Starr - Vince Lombardi his whole career.
Terry Bradshaw - Chuck Noll his whole career.
Joe Montana - Bill Walsh for most of his career.
Tom Brady - Bill Belichick most of his career.
Drew Brees - Sean Payton most of his career.

Aikman had to deal with Johnson leaving just as things were going great, and then Jerry Jones meddling and drafting, plus a carousel of bad coaches. That makes a difference in a career.

good points about Aikman. imagine Brady after winning #3, if he was coached by guys like Jim Tomsula and Hue Jackson, so yeah that makes sense.

i just think the pounding that Aikman took early in his career, even Emmitt, led to their quick decline. they took a lot of shots, maybe a few unnecessary stuff, and it came back later on.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by oplum29

i think Marino was the best passer in NFL history. Moon to me might be #2.

Maybe. Unitas is up there. Picking a QB with that level of ability is tough.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Maybe. Unitas is up there. Picking a QB with that level of ability is tough.

you're right, Unitas was doing Dan Marino things before Dan Marino.

[marinocollector]

Originally Posted by oplum29

Montana won his first ring throwing to Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and handing off to Earl Cooper and Levnil Elliott.

Craig didn't show up until a few years later, and even then, he wasn't even a RB, he was a FB. Wendall Tyler was the RB.

Brady had Corey Dillon in 2004, when he won his 3rd ring. Dillon ran for over 1500 yards and made the Pro Bowl.

both Montana and Brady won rings with non-HOF pass catchers and runners, in the old school NFL era.

then the game changed for one of them, and he went off with some crazy fantasy football stats.

And Montana could do all that and win BECAUSE OF RONNIE LOTT.

[marinocollector]

Originally Posted by oplum29

you're right, Unitas was doing Dan Marino things before Dan Marino.

Don Shula disagrees. LOL

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by marinocollector

Don Shula disagrees. LOL

hahahahaha

[Melagoo]

Of course he is ... Joe Montana in my mind was always the best ... his peers knew too!