More Historic? Ohtani’s 50/50 or Judges 62 HR AL record?

[rms13]

Originally Posted by Absknicks

Just glad Ohtani is such a great pitcher otherwise he wouldn't even belong in the same sentence as Judge.

Judge has lapped the field as far as offensive talent goes.

That's great. But That doesn't make him more historic. Judge did something that several guys already did before. Ohtani did something nobody has done before. Outside of Yankees fans nobody cared about Judge's "record". When McGwire, Sosa and Bonds were actually breaking the HR record everyone was following the story. If Judge gets to 74 HR in a season then it will be a be historic.

[espnfanco]

Bring back PED's... records are made to be broken

[kyle1707]

Judge 62. Because with out the steal change rules or clock or what ever happened

Ohtani would have stole 18 bases.

Both are historic seasons though. And Ohtani is headed into the goat conversation because of pitching and hitting combo..

Judge will have a bizarre resume for the hof. He’s going to have more strikeouts than hits. And Ohtani numbers probably will never be very high because of late start

But both these guys deserve to be first ballot hof imo

[rms13]

Originally Posted by espnfanco

Bring back PED's... records are made to be broken

They haven't gone anywhere

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by rms13

That's great. But That doesn't make him more historic. Judge did something that several guys already did before. Ohtani did something nobody has done before. Outside of Yankees fans nobody cared about Judge's "record". When McGwire, Sosa and Bonds were actually breaking the HR record everyone was following the story. If Judge gets to 74 HR in a season then it will be a be historic.

Are you delusional? MLB and sports media interrupted games to show every Judge at bat leading up to and including 62. They interrupted football games. If they felt no one cared outside of Yankees fans who would already be watching the Yankees game, they would never have done any of this. Do you think Topps chose to create tons of cards for Judge celebrating the lead-up and breaking of it too if they only thought a handful of Yankees fans would buy it? No.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by kyle1707

Judge 62. Because with out the steal change rules or clock or what ever happened

Ohtani would have stole 18 bases.

Both are historic seasons though. And Ohtani is headed into the goat conversation because of pitching and hitting combo..

Judge will have a bizarre resume for the hof. He’s going to have more strikeouts than hits. And Ohtani numbers probably will never be very high because of late start

But both these guys deserve to be first ballot hof imo

Ohtani is in the goat conversation even without pitching. The 4 full seasons he's had as a hitter are on pace with any of the all time greats. He'll win his 3rd MVP this year and there is no reason to think he won't add to that if he can stay healthy.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Are you delusional? MLB and sports media interrupted games to show every Judge at bat leading up to and including 62. They interrupted football games. If they felt no one cared outside of Yankees fans who would already be watching the Yankees game, they would never have done any of this. Do you think Topps chose to create tons of cards for Judge celebrating the lead-up and breaking of it too if they only thought a handful of Yankees fans would buy it? No.

I don't remember any football games being interrupted. The media coverage you are talking about is baseball media that baseball fans are watching. McGwire/Bonds was covered in in the non sports media and was being talked about on national news, late night talk shows etc. Another issue is nobody watches traditional TV anymore so even if Judge had as much coverage most people wouldn't know unless they were a baseball fan watching baseball.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by rms13

I don't remember any football games being interrupted. The media coverage you are talking about is baseball media that baseball fans are watching. McGwire/Bonds was covered in in the non sports media and was being talked about on national news, late night talk shows etc. Another issue is nobody watches traditional TV anymore so even if Judge had as much coverage most people wouldn't know unless they were a baseball fan watching baseball.

Someone complained about football games being interrupted the other day on here. Fox News had numerous articles on the front page of their website about his chase to beat 61 but I gues they aren't national news.

Meanwhile nothing was interrupted, even in the only baseball media you keep crying about for Ohtani 50/50. Doesn't make it any less historical, just not viewed as historical as Judges chase by MLB and those who cover it.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Someone complained about football games being interrupted the other day on here. Fox News had numerous articles on the front page of their website about his chase to beat 61 but I gues they aren't national news.

Meanwhile nothing was interrupted, even in the only baseball media you keep crying about for Ohtani 50/50. Doesn't make it any less historical, just not viewed as historical as Judges chase by MLB and those who cover it.

Nothing was interrupted because he did it in the first at bat that he had a chance to become a member of the 50-50.

Seriously you keep bringing this up like it means something. It took Judge multiple games to finally hit #62. And he #61 in his final AB of the game, but I doubt all of the national stations would have cut in had he had another AB.

BTW, if you're going to talk about batting averages in the comparison, Judge is only a .288 career hitter. Since you want to talk about a .280 (Ohtani) to an "all time great hitter"

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Someone complained about football games being interrupted the other day on here. Fox News had numerous articles on the front page of their website about his chase to beat 61 but I gues they aren't national news.

Meanwhile nothing was interrupted, even in the only baseball media you keep crying about for Ohtani 50/50. Doesn't make it any less historical, just not viewed as historical as Judges chase by MLB and those who cover it.

Originally Posted by whitmm

Nothing was interrupted because he did it in the first at bat that he had a chance to become a member of the 50-50.

Seriously you keep bringing this up like it means something. It took Judge multiple games to finally hit #62. And he #61 in his final AB of the game, but I doubt all of the national stations would have cut in had he had another AB.

Yeah, FT, the national media didn’t know the Dodgers were playing otherwise they would have broken in.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Someone complained about football games being interrupted the other day on here. Fox News had numerous articles on the front page of their website about his chase to beat 61 but I gues they aren't national news.

Meanwhile nothing was interrupted, even in the only baseball media you keep crying about for Ohtani 50/50. Doesn't make it any less historical, just not viewed as historical as Judges chase by MLB and those who cover it.

That's true. The cultural relevance of baseball is at an all time low. Non sports fans and casual sports fans care a lot more about Caitlin Clark right now then they do about Judge or Ohtani. But in Judge's case, sorry I don't see anything historic about breaking the AL HR record. League HR records and other records were never a thing before Judge. I've been a baseball fan for 40 years and I've never heard anyone making a huge deal about someone breaking the AL or NL record for anything. It would be mentioned in passing as an item of note but there was no real fanfare involved in any record ever unless it was an MLB record. I don't remember anyone talking about McGwire and Sosa chasing the NL HR record.

[oldgoldy97]

Would Ohtani be closer to Judge’s WAR if he was pitching? Or would playing defense be a potentially big enough boost?

[SaveMeTheGum]

One has happened a bunch of times. One was considered impossible and has only happened once.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Nothing was interrupted because he did it in the first at bat that he had a chance to become a member of the 50-50.

Seriously you keep bringing this up like it means something. It took Judge multiple games to finally hit #62. And he #61 in his final AB of the game, but I doubt all of the national stations would have cut in had he had another AB.

BTW, if you're going to talk about batting averages in the comparison, Judge is only a .288 career hitter. Since you want to talk about a .280 (Ohtani) to an "all time great hitter"

The point is no one in the media cared about Ohtani getting close to being the first to do it enough to interrupt other games to see if he could do it. It wasn't as exciting to anyone obviously other than Dodgers fans and Ohtani fan boyz. People care about home run records. It's why the McGwire/Sosa chase was non-stop TV and it's why Judge's chase was non-stop TV.

I have never been dumb enough to say Judge is an all-time great, much less compare him to all-time greats, with a .288 batting average. Thanks for pointing out another stat though in which Judges offensive career is better than Ohtani's.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by rms13

That's true. The cultural relevance of baseball is at an all time low. Non sports fans and casual sports fans care a lot more about Caitlin Clark right now then they do about Judge or Ohtani. But in Judge's case, sorry I don't see anything historic about breaking the AL HR record. League HR records and other records were never a thing before Judge. I've been a baseball fan for 40 years and I've never heard anyone making a huge deal about someone breaking the AL or NL record for anything. It would be mentioned in passing as an item of note but there was no real fanfare involved in any record ever unless it was an MLB record. I don't remember anyone talking about McGwire and Sosa chasing the NL HR record.

And in the past, I agree with you. I never remember growing up hearing anything about league records. Honestly, I think it's baseball needing to have heroes again since like you said, everyone is out talking about Caitlin Clarke or Patrick Mahomes. It's also a much different game than when I grew up. Everything is stats generated (probably because of gambling). The Orioles announcers were talking about Clarke Schmidt last night and how he had a 16 game streak of allowing 3 runs or less and what the league and Yankee record was. Do we really care about that record? You can't watch a baseball game without being inundated with stats and some sort of record.

[oldgoldy97]

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I admittedly haven't followed baseball closely in the last 10-15 years or so but are stolen bases worth so much more than everything else these days? Maybe my Vince Coleman cards will finally see a bump!

https://stathead.com/tiny/aB5J9

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

[oldgoldy97]

There are probably some made up, oops, sabre metrics to dispute that.

[hche]

They are actually 2 different types of records.

50/50 is a milestone. People will mention Ohtani being the first to achieve it. Just like we still mention Canseco is the 1st 40/40.

62 is a home run record that is meant to be broken. Now we will mention Judge broke Maris' record. When someone breaks Judge's, we will say he broke Judge's and Maris will begin to be pushed down the list but we will still say Ruth is the 1st one to hit 60.

[chilly55]

Judge is more important and more impressive. It took 61 years to break 61 home runs.

While 50/50 is a milestone, Ohtani needed help from the rules changes to do 50/50. Without them, no one is talking about 50/50 because Ohtani wouldn't have 50 SB. Everyone can make excuses why all of a sudden Ohtani can steal bases at a 93% success rate. But the fact is, prior to this year, he was at 72% success. Rule changes have inflated his numbers.

So while the milestone is impressive, not as impressive as beating 61. If Ohtani, or anyone else had done this prior to 2023, it would be more impressive. I have a feeling we will see more players do 40/40 and 50/50 in the next 10 years than in the last 35 years and it become more common place with the new rules.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

The point is no one in the media cared about Ohtani getting close to being the first to do it enough to interrupt other games to see if he could do it. It wasn't as exciting to anyone obviously other than Dodgers fans and Ohtani fan boyz. People care about home run records. It's why the McGwire/Sosa chase was non-stop TV and it's why Judge's chase was non-stop TV.

I have never been dumb enough to say Judge is an all-time great, much less compare him to all-time greats, with a .288 batting average. Thanks for pointing out another stat though in which Judges offensive career is better than Ohtani's.

The point is that Ohtani did it in his first at bat, during the same game. You don't know if stations would have interrupted other games had it been the next game.

They weren't cutting in on Judge's chase. They cut in when he had a chance to break it. They weren't showing all of his at bats when he was multiple home runs short.

You made a comment about others talking up a career .280 hitter, yet all you do is talk up a career .288 hitter. Just pointing out that they aren't that far apart in average.

Exciting doesn't equal historic. Elly De La Cruz is exciting, he's not historic. And all of them are good for the game.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by chilly55

Judge is more important and more impressive. It took 61 years to break 61 home runs.

While 50/50 is a milestone, Ohtani needed help from the rules changes to do 50/50. Without them, no one is talking about 50/50 because Ohtani wouldn't have 50 SB. Everyone can make excuses why all of a sudden Ohtani can steal bases at a 93% success rate. But the fact is, prior to this year, he was at 72% success. Rule changes have inflated his numbers.

So while the milestone is impressive, not as impressive as beating 61. If Ohtani, or anyone else had done this prior to 2023, it would be more impressive. I have a feeling we will see more players do 40/40 and 50/50 in the next 10 years than in the last 35 years and it become more common place with the new rules.

73 > 62

[Wade Mulroy]

Would be fun to see these guys face off in the World Series.

I'm a Cardinals fan, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be extremely interested in tuning in.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

Would be fun to see these guys face off in the World Series.

I'm a Cardinals fan, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be extremely interested in tuning in.

that would be the best thing for the hobby, no doubt