I swear Peyton cannot win the BIG games, thank God for Andrew Luck!!!

[HBMC]

Originally Posted by wingah

No Debate: Facts Show Tom Brady Better Than Peyton Manning

/END THREAD

I was enjoying that article until the very end, good lord, the author made it like the rest of the Broncos offense did anything against the Seahawks Defense. The ball was snapped right over Manning's head (which is pretty amazing considering how tall he is) and it was gangbusters from then on. Their O-Line got no push and couldn't pass protect at all.

I'm usually fairly even on these two guys (Brady and Manning), but Manning wasn't the reason the Broncos lost the Super Bowl.

[howethegreat]

Originally Posted by rseve43

Peyton Manning has a Super Bowl ring.


I get really tired of hearing how he can't win big games so I will say it again: Peyton Manning has a Super Bowl ring.



Say what you want about other big games that he didn't win. He has a ring. That's all that matters. He also threw for 400 yards in the cold and wind yesterday FWIW. The INTs were tipped balls that could have/should have been caught. Tough to win when your defense gets shredded for 40+ points.



Not that this post needs any further explanation, but I'm not much of a Peyton fan either. Just someone who gets tired of people falling into the traps the media sets of buying into their blown-out-of-proportion story lines, like the 'Peyton can't win big games' one.

yes manning has a ring because rex grossman, not really because manning was on.

[BoxBreaker72]

I have a feeling this thread is going to be like the Gruden one and haunt this forum for years to come.

[wingah]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Hahahaha, oh wow. Kerry Byrne? Really? You put a link on here to a Boston-based writer and you think that ends the argument? I guess 'ol Kerry from The Boston Herald probably has no bias at all, right?

Originally Posted by bigzig

What he said below.





Except He's beat Seahawks, 9ers, Denver, came from 21 points behind to beat the Chiefs, etc...

I'm a homer, but this has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. Even when he's being knocked on his ass all game and losing he is still throwing for 350 and 3 TD easily.

Maybe you guys should have actually read the article. Its 99% FACT and STATS based so it doesn't matter who writes it or where they are from.

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by howethegreat

yes manning has a ring because rex grossman, not really because manning was on.

If you say so man.

Originally Posted by wingah

Maybe you guys should have actually read the article. Its 99% FACT and STATS based so it doesn't matter who writes it or where they are from.

I can find FACTS and STATS to support any argument. FACT is, there is no end all be all STAT that proves anything between these two. Both will go down as 2 of the greatest of all time and this debate could continue forever.

/THREAD!!!!!!!!

[Pot Roast]

Originally Posted by wingah

Maybe you guys should have actually read the article. Its 99% FACT and STATS based so it doesn't matter who writes it or where they are from.

Manning takes shitting the bed to new levels in Super Bowl XLVIII. Hell, he #@#@#@#@ all over the floor and the walls, too. Wide-eyed Manning muffs the first snap of the game, handing the Seahawks a gift 2-0 lead. He's picked off in Seattle territory later in the first quarter, and throws a pick-six at the end of the first half.




So there you have it, folks: Brady produces similar stats, more points and more victories. He's won more playoff games and more Super Bowls. And he doesn't #@#@#@#@ the bed every year in the playoffs. Brady, in other words, is better by every meaningful empirical measure.



Hmm sounds like he's not biased at all.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by wingah

Maybe you guys should have actually read the article. Its 99% FACT and STATS based so it doesn't matter who writes it or where they are from.

This is the part where I spew a bunch of actual FACTS that are STATS based but make no real connection to TRUTH.

Or, perhaps I'll just save my breath.

[wingah]

Originally Posted by Pot Roast

Manning takes shitting the bed to new levels in Super Bowl XLVIII. Hell, he #@#@#@#@ all over the floor and the walls, too. Wide-eyed Manning muffs the first snap of the game, handing the Seahawks a gift 2-0 lead. He's picked off in Seattle territory later in the first quarter, and throws a pick-six at the end of the first half.



So there you have it, folks: Brady produces similar stats, more points and more victories. He's won more playoff games and more Super Bowls. And he doesn't #@#@#@#@ the bed every year in the playoffs. Brady, in other words, is better by every meaningful empirical measure.



Hmm sounds like he's not biased at all.

That was the 1% it was also the end of the post where he states his opinions based on the facts given.

Ultimately winning is the only stat that really matters.....and brady owns manning in EVERY aspect of that.

[bigzig]

So I went back and actually read the article instead of just skimming. The bias was so obvious I was chuckling until I read this gem.. "But Manning has played with Super Bowl-caliber defenses throughout his career," and I flat out lost it.

What a #@#@#@#@ing crock.

[wingah]

Originally Posted by bigzig

So I went back and actually read the article instead of just skimming. The bias was so obvious I was chuckling until I read this gem.. "But Manning has played with Super Bowl-caliber defenses throughout his career," and I flat out lost it.

What a #@#@#@#@ing crock.

Fact manning has played with 7 teams that had top 8 defense....brady has played with 8

"Including this season, Manning has played with seven different defenses that ranked in the Top 8 in scoring. Brady has played with eight different defenses that ranked in the Top 8 in scoring.

Manning's teams have surrendered an average of 21.4 PPG; Brady's teams 18.8 PPG. But Manning has played with Super Bowl-caliber defenses throughout his career, nearly as often as Brady.

Each quarterback has played once with the best defense in football. Brady rode that defense to 15 straight victories and a Super Bowl title during the 2003 season; Manning #@#@#@#@ the bed with that defense and went one-and-done in the playoffs during the 2007 season. "

[coltsnsox07]

You know the guy who wrote that article is a Boston Herald writer, he also likes the term '$h!tting the bed' a whole lot, I think he may be a closet scatophiliac.

[rj.cataldo]

Everyone loves to compare Manning and Brady, rightfully so. What I don't get is why the love comes so heavily on the Brady side. Brady is 18-8 in the post season, but only 8-8 since starting his career 10-0. You can say what you want but short of one game his first three Super Bowls were largely won thanks to his D which gave up 15.8 PTs a game over that run. That is consistent and prolonged dominance over the course of 4 years, which is hard to do (just look at the seahawks)

That's roughly equal to the 2006 Bears, considered dominant by many. Brady has had the fortune of playing in a great system with the same coach his ENTIRE career. That is extremely rare. After the patriots D slipped they tried to build a super team and failed twice against what many would call an outmatched Giants team. The years brady did win superbowls he had rather pedestrian numbers during the season, and never put up more than 30 tds until afte their last SB victory.

In the end they are both great, but the point is Brady has been the benefactor of some good luck (tuck rule) and good defense just as much as he's been good.

[coureymarshall]

During Peyton Manning's time with Indianapolis (1998 to 2010 - excluding the 2011 season), the NFL has been 48-5 (.906) in the playoffs when committing zero (0) turnovers. During the same time period, the Indianapolis Colts were 1-5 (.167) in the playoffs when committing zero (0) turnovers.

No quarterback has lost more playoff games (minimum 15 attempts) when throwing zero interceptions than Peyton Manning (5 games).

Peyton Manning is the only quarterback in NFL history with two (2) "lost comebacks" in the playoffs. A lost comeback is a game where the quarterback met all the requirements for a fourth quarter comeback, except the team still lost the game because they lost the lead again. Manning had lost comebacks against the 2007 Chargers and 2010 Jets.

Of Peyton Manning's eight (8) "one and done" playoff losses, his teams have led in the final 0:40 of fourth quarter four (4) times.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by coureymarshall

During Peyton Manning's time with Indianapolis (1998 to 2010 - excluding the 2011 season), the NFL has been 48-5 (.906) in the playoffs when committing zero (0) turnovers. During the same time period, the Indianapolis Colts were 1-5 (.167) in the playoffs when committing zero (0) turnovers.

No quarterback has lost more playoff games (minimum 15 attempts) when throwing zero interceptions than Peyton Manning (5 games).

Peyton Manning is the only quarterback in NFL history with two (2) "lost comebacks" in the playoffs. A lost comeback is a game where the quarterback met all the requirements for a fourth quarter comeback, except the team still lost the game because they lost the lead again. Manning had lost comebacks against the 2007 Chargers and 2010 Jets.

Of Peyton Manning's eight (8) "one and done" playoff losses, his teams have led in the final 0:40 of fourth quarter four (4) times.

Isn't it funny how these facts are overlooked so often when people call Peyton a "choke artists" or something to that effect? It's ridiculous how many times he played well or did enough on his end to lead the team downfield and win only to watch as his defense screwed everything up. The Ravens playoff game from 2012 comes to mind.

[BostonNut]

I heard a stat today that Tom Brady is .500 OR BETTER against EVERY SINGLE TEAM in the NFL in his career. Peyton is .500 OR WORSE against (I think) six or seven teams.

That is mind-boggling.

[indyguy]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

I heard a stat today that Tom Brady is .500 OR BETTER against EVERY SINGLE TEAM in the NFL in his career. Peyton is .500 OR WORSE against (I think) six or seven teams.

That is mind-boggling.

Neat stat. I think Peyton's is five teams though. Not that it really matters.

Patriots for sure (6-13). Colts always had trouble with Miami (5-7) for some reason. Bears (1-2). Seahawks (2-3) and Packers (1-2).

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Isn't it funny how these facts are overlooked so often when people call Peyton a "choke artists" or something to that effect? It's ridiculous how many times he played well or did enough on his end to lead the team downfield and win only to watch as his defense screwed everything up. The Ravens playoff game from 2012 comes to mind.

So Tom Brady is 5-0 in Super Bowls! Cool...never knew that!

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

I heard a stat today that Tom Brady is .500 OR BETTER against EVERY SINGLE TEAM in the NFL in his career. Peyton is .500 OR WORSE against (I think) six or seven teams.

That is mind-boggling.

Yeah, isn't it just mind-boggling. Did you know that football is a team game? Just curious if you figured that out. Having said that, perhaps we can correct what you just wrote:

Originally Posted by BostonNut

I heard a stat today that the Patriots, when Tom Brady starts at quarterback, are .500 OR BETTER against EVERY SINGLE TEAM in the NFL in his career. The Colts and Broncos, when Peyton starts at quarterback, are .500 OR WORSE against (I think) six or seven teams.

That is mind-boggling.

There you go, champ. Now we can have a conversation about this mind-boggling stat.

He's 1-1 against Indy, big shock. They've played twice. BTW, in that loss to Indy, Peyton threw for nearly 400 yards and 3 scores with one pick.

He has losing records to Seattle, New England and Miami (with a minimum of five games played against each.) Against the Seahawks he has a career passer rating of 95.8, including the Super Bowl. Against the Pats, including the playoffs, he has 43 touchdowns and 26 picks with a quarterback rating of 90. Against the Fins, he has his worst TD to INT ratio of 18-18 (1:1) of the teams listed.

He's 1-2 against the Packers. In those three games, Peyton has a quarterback rating of 93 with 8 touchdowns and 3 picks, averaging over 300 yards passing per game.

He's 3-3 against the Saints. In those three games he has 14 touchdowns and 4 picks with a QB Rating of 121!

He's 2-2 against Carolina. In those games he has 5 touchdowns and 3 picks. Not a very large sample size.

He's 2-2 against the Bears. In those games he has 7 touchdowns and 2 picks.

So, shall we talk more about this mind-boggling stat you heard today so we can dissect it a bit more? Do some research.

[BostonNut]

Holy Cow...obviously you take this way more seriously than I do.

...:slowly backs out of thread with head on swivel:

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Yeah, isn't it just mind-boggling. Did you know that football is a team game? Just curious if you figured that out. Having said that, perhaps we can correct what you just wrote:



There you go, champ. Now we can have a conversation about this mind-boggling stat.

He's 1-1 against Indy, big shock. They've played twice. BTW, in that loss to Indy, Peyton threw for nearly 400 yards and 3 scores with one pick.

He has losing records to Seattle, New England and Miami ( with a minimum of five games played against each. Against the Seahawks he has a career passer rating of 95.8, including the Super Bowl. Against the Pats, including the playoffs, he has 43 touchdowns and 26 picks with a quarterback rating of 90. Against the Fins, he has his worst TD to INT ratio of 18-18 (1:1) of the teams listed.

He's 1-2 against the Packers. In those three games, Peyton has a quarterback rating of 93 with 8 touchdowns and 3 picks, averaging over 300 yards passing per game.

He's 3-3 against the Saints. In those three games he has 14 touchdowns and 4 picks with a QB Rating of 121!

He's 2-2 against Carolina. In those games he has 5 touchdowns and 3 picks. No a very large sample size.

He's 2-2 against the Bears. In those games he has 7 touchdowns and 2 picks.

So, shall we talk more about this mind-boggling stat you heard today so we can dissect it a bit more? Do some research.

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

So Tom Brady is 5-0 in Super Bowls! Cool...never knew that!

I don't recall anyone saying Brady choked.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Holy Cow...obviously you take this way more seriously than I do.

...:slowly backs out of thread with tail between his legs

Corrected it for you.

[BirdLaw]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Isn't it funny how these facts are overlooked so often when people call Peyton a "choke artists" or something to that effect? It's ridiculous how many times he played well or did enough on his end to lead the team downfield and win only to watch as his defense screwed everything up. The Ravens playoff game from 2012 comes to mind.

It's not that Peyton Manning is a choker. It's just that he doesn't step up and play better than he does in the regular season. You look at Rodgers, Brees, Eli and Flacco and you see four historically dominant playoff runs. You're much more likely to need a performance like that these days if you want to go all the way. Peyton isn't paying poorly, but he certainly isn't playing well enough either.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by BirdLaw

It's not that Peyton Manning is a choker. It's just that he doesn't step up and play better than he does in the regular season. You look at Rodgers, Brees, Eli and Flacco and you see four historically dominant playoff runs. You're much more likely to need a performance like that these days if you want to go all the way. Peyton isn't paying poorly, but he certainly isn't playing well enough either.

Yet, Peyton has a slightly higher postseason quarterback rating than Brady and still gets labeled as being a disappointment, whereas Brady often gets exhalted.

[MLH]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Yet, Peyton has a slightly higher postseason quarterback rating than Brady and still gets labeled as being a disappointment, whereas Brady often gets exhalted.

Not saying this is necessarily the case with Peyton, but it is pretty easy to do everything right most of the time, and screw up when it's most costly. QB rating doesn't take the actual effect on the game into account.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

Everyone loves to compare Manning and Brady, rightfully so. What I don't get is why the love comes so heavily on the Brady side. Brady is 18-8 in the post season, but only 8-8 since starting his career 10-0. You can say what you want but short of one game his first three Super Bowls were largely won thanks to his D which gave up 15.8 PTs a game over that run. That is consistent and prolonged dominance over the course of 4 years, which is hard to do (just look at the seahawks)

That's roughly equal to the 2006 Bears, considered dominant by many. Brady has had the fortune of playing in a great system with the same coach his ENTIRE career. That is extremely rare. After the patriots D slipped they tried to build a super team and failed twice against what many would call an outmatched Giants team. The years brady did win superbowls he had rather pedestrian numbers during the season, and never put up more than 30 tds until afte their last SB victory.

In the end they are both great, but the point is Brady has been the benefactor of some good luck (tuck rule) and good defense just as much as he's been good.

Silly post. The breaks even out. I could go on about how Manning "won" his super bowl by pointing out that Dominic Rhodes was the true MVP of the SB, how Manning threw three picks at home against a bad KC team in the first round of the playoffs that year (defense bailed him out), and how they beat Baltimore with defense and a terrible McNair interception that cost Balt the game. In other words, the Colts won those three games IN SPITE of Manning, not because of him. See? You can state anything based on facts that you want to support your own argument.