LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[thenwhatjk]

Originally Posted by DajuanWagner

Well, that makes one of us...……...

It’s going to be a work of art Randy. It will be to messageboard posts what the Gala /8 is to rookie cards: the rarest and the best

[jrfillini]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I would've gone with Buy Narrow Cards, but yours works too.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Eric has emailed me who he bought the card from and when. I do not know that individual, but I do know of him.

Originally Posted by the27guy

He’s told me who he bought it from. I’m sorry, you’re not going to like this, but I’m not going to do the job that is Jack’s and Eric’s. They need to say who they sold and purchased the card from. That’s on them.

Originally Posted by the27guy

I have said at least ten times that Eric should come in. I believe that.

I don’t know how many stops it made. But I do know FOR CERTAIN that Jack has done multiple big deals with the guy who Eric told me he bought the cards from. So.... yeah.....

Originally Posted by the27guy

Thank you, jack. I appreciate you taking the time to post.

Sohrob was who Eric told me sold him the card.

I have no other info.

Here are the times Adam mentioned he had info on the 3rd party in this thread, but wouldn't out that 3rd party. I thought it was disingenuous of him not to just spit the name out at that time, even if I can understand a person's intentions behind not outing someone.

In this case, and who Adam is to this board, and all the context prior. He should have outed that person.

Same with the eBay messages. Even something as short as "Hey guys I got these eBay messages, do with them what you wish." would have sufficed.

It seems like Adam wanted to stay out of the fray, which is understandable. He also kept inserting himself into this thread and speculating (like we all did) so he was already in it. He should have spoken up if he had more info (which he admitted to having about Sohrob, but remained mum on the whole thing.

We can speculate as to why Adam did all that until we're blue in the face. I don't believe it to be for ill intentions, but it's just a belief. I believe Adam said it was a character flaw of his early on to see the best in people. Judging by his interactions with members on here, it seems to be. Adam has been cordial with many members when most of us wouldn't have been, so I just view Adam as a genuinely nice guy.

The fact remains, if you have some dirt on somebody in regards to nefarious hobby dealings, drop it IMMEDIATELY. To not do so mean's you don't REALLY CARE about the hobby the way you say you do, even if your intentions are pure.

It's not just Adam (though he 100% should be the focus in this instance), this should be a PSA (great pun on my end) for the board and a prerequisite for membership. If you know something, say something. Don't protect a parties name or obfuscate details of shadiness on this board. Just don't. This hobby is EXTREMELY shady and corrupt and it takes people like Adam who have "inside" knowledge to police some of the corrupt dealings.

It doesn't appear Adam is in anyway connected to any of this, short of knowing those involved better than most in the forum. Still, if you know something then say something. Worst case is you're wrong, and the post can be edited later.

Originally Posted by Siberian13

The fact that the27guy knows who the third party is and won’t say anything is also alarming.

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

I agree. I understand that he feels that he was told something in confidence so he doesn't want to betray that confidence. Normally I feel the same way but when it comes to crime, that goes out the window.

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Maybe if you drop the 3rd party name .

Siberian and jmscoggin aptly called this out early on, I should have as well when I read it as well as others who commented. At the time, Adam knew an extra piece of info and was holding it from the forum. Not cool.

Originally Posted by rogermaris

This sounds like an outlandish conspiracy theory until you learn that PSA knew the Wagner card was trimmed before they graded it:

https://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/it...ntry-1.1632554

The relevant passage:

PSA grader Bill Hughes, a member of the team that inspected the Gretzky T206 Wagner, admitted he knew the card had been cut from a sheet when he graded the card. "We were aware of that when the card came to PSA," he is quoted as saying in "The Card." "This particular card was obviously cut...The card is so outstanding, it would have been sacreligious to call that card trimmed and completely devalue it."

I've never read that passage, but it makes sense. I'm not a conspiracy guy, but it's not some great leap to understand that these companies (BGS, PSA, SGC) have tons of equity in their word and it's not hard to believe that they would potentially (likely) leverage that equity.

When the potential difference in a PSA 9 1952 Mantle vs. a PSA 10 1952 Mantle is something in the realm of $5-$7M, it's not that hard to imagine what people would succumb to for that type of money. Especially in a completely unregulated industry where grades are subjective to the grader.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by DajuanWagner

elaborate...…….

they are all dirty

i feel that going forward, it will be "business as usual", but on IG not here

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I've agreed with you guys on a lot of things and I've also disagreed. On this one I disagree.

And I'll explain it again since you wanted me to stay quiet. I just can't look past Adam's responses. He seems to genuinely think buybuymj is the one thats confused. Heck by the end of their messages buybuymj IS totally confused but that's because Adam just doesnt get it.

First off, Adam gets it and always has. He's not confused about anything.

No one wants you to stay quiet. You are "entitled" to whatever you want to say on a internet forum. I just thought it was in your best interest to stop defending sketchy people.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by chezball

Something smells

I assume all Glen sees in this photo are those nice sweatpants

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

they are all dirty

i feel that going forward, it will be "business as usual", but on IG not here

Hopefully those defending BNC in this thread just go away and never come back. There’s enough shady characters here I’m sure. We don’t need any more.

[BoardsNDimes]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

LOL funny as hell ninjacookies... Very creative!

[mglevy125]

All jokes aside, is anyone else here worried about the big picture? This is the exact type of behavior that could cause the entire industry to collapse. And if Beckett (and potentially PSA) is grading trimmed cards, who can we trust? I love the industry, and have ever since I was 9 years old, but it seems like it might be a good time to get out of this altogether.

If the allegations are true, I certainly do blame BNC for his inexcusable actions, but shouldn’t more of the blame be shifted towards the grading companies, for not doing their one job? They’re quick to knock off a point for dull corners, but don’t look to compare and contrast specifications outside of corners, surface, edges and centering?

What a shame that a small few could eventually be solely responsible for the collapse of the entire market, it makes me sick.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

All jokes aside, is anyone else here worried about the big picture? This is the exact type of behavior that could cause the entire industry to collapse. And if Beckett (and potentially PSA) is grading trimmed cards, who can we trust? I love the industry, and have ever since I was 9 years old, but it seems like it might be a good time to get out of this altogether.

If the allegations are true, I certainly do blame BNC for his inexcusable actions, but shouldn’t more of the blame be shifted towards the grading companies, for not doing their one job? They’re quick to knock off a point for dull corners, but don’t look to compare and contrast specifications outside of corners, surface, edges and centering?

What a shame that a small few could eventually be solely responsible for the collapse of the entire market, it makes me sick.

No, this type of behavior is just one of any 100's of schemes concocted in the unregulated card market over the past 30 years.

The hobby and market will sustain.

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

but shouldn’t more of the blame be shifted towards the grading companies, for not doing their one job? They’re quick to knock off a point for dull corners, but don’t look to compare and contrast specifications outside of corners, surface, edges and centering?

Not "more" of the blame. It's kinda two separate issues.

1. What BNC is doing is trying to game/cheat the system and people in the hobby.

2. BGS/PSA/SGC need to start tracking what they grade. Especially for cards which are known to sell above a certain threshold. It needs to be Photographed and details recorded. After all they charge more for those cards. If a card comes through their system a second time they should have record of it and be aware of any defects and reasons for the grade at the time.

[mglevy125]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

No, this type of behavior is just one of any 100's of schemes concocted in the unregulated card market over the past 30 years.

The hobby and market will sustain.

I hope you’re right

[IronMonkey415]

Well Well Well....Some people with fancy and high end cards owner are usually scum and cheat, just as I predicted.


I know you people get mad wen I say this...WELL I"M POPPING IN AND SAYING THE SAME THING <Blows raspberry>

[jbarnett83]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Here are the times Adam mentioned he had info on the 3rd party in this thread, but wouldn't out that 3rd party. I thought it was disingenuous of him not to just spit the name out at that time, even if I can understand a person's intentions behind not outing someone.

In this case, and who Adam is to this board, and all the context prior. He should have outed that person.

Same with the eBay messages. Even something as short as "Hey guys I got these eBay messages, do with them what you wish." would have sufficed.

It seems like Adam wanted to stay out of the fray, which is understandable. He also kept inserting himself into this thread and speculating (like we all did) so he was already in it. He should have spoken up if he had more info (which he admitted to having about Sohrob, but remained mum on the whole thing.

We can speculate as to why Adam did all that until we're blue in the face. I don't believe it to be for ill intentions, but it's just a belief. I believe Adam said it was a character flaw of his early on to see the best in people. Judging by his interactions with members on here, it seems to be. Adam has been cordial with many members when most of us wouldn't have been, so I just view Adam as a genuinely nice guy.

The fact remains, if you have some dirt on somebody in regards to nefarious hobby dealings, drop it IMMEDIATELY. To not do so mean's you don't REALLY CARE about the hobby the way you say you do, even if your intentions are pure.

It's not just Adam (though he 100% should be the focus in this instance), this should be a PSA (great pun on my end) for the board and a prerequisite for membership. If you know something, say something. Don't protect a parties name or obfuscate details of shadiness on this board. Just don't. This hobby is EXTREMELY shady and corrupt and it takes people like Adam who have "inside" knowledge to police some of the corrupt dealings.

It doesn't appear Adam is in anyway connected to any of this, short of knowing those involved better than most in the forum. Still, if you know something then say something. Worst case is you're wrong, and the post can be edited later.

.

Agreed with this Adam made some crucial mistakes by not showing evidence that would’ve proven his friend is involved in the trimmings. Adam, to my knowledge and belief, has no involvement with the trimming of cards. The issue is with the cards being questioned and the scum behind it all.

There has been a ton of progress in this epic blowout investigation. I still am not sure who has cut the cards though? Completely a theory but maybe BNC would send cards to Sohrob (aka Card doctor) to get a bump in grade. Then Sohrob would get a % based on the grades returned, (as mentioned by rookies early on). - again this is just a theory but maybe explains how Sohrob had the #87 in his possession and then was eventually returned to BNC when he sold his collection to him.

This whole thing is sickening to learn about but hope the blowout detectives can keep digging because I don’t think we are done yet.

[Siberian13]

At the very least, shouldn't someone with a Lebron James Exquisite RPA database on their website (link below) update the notes on the cards he knows are trimmed with something to warn others? He's known for weeks and nothing has been changed there.

https://buynicecards.com/lebron-exquisite-database

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

At the very least, shouldn't someone with a Lebron James Exquisite RPA database on their website (link below) update the notes on the cards he knows are trimmed with something to warn others? He's known for weeks and nothing has been changed there.

https://buynicecards.com/lebron-exquisite-database

I said the same earlier.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

At the very least, shouldn't someone with a Lebron James Exquisite RPA database on their website (link below) update the notes on the cards he knows are trimmed with something to warn others? He's known for weeks and nothing has been changed there.

https://buynicecards.com/lebron-exquisite-database

We all know he won't.

It's kind of inconsequential (in my eyes) who actually trimmed the cards. The fact is:

1) BNC knows they're trimmed and has done nothing other than state "I don't even know what I'm going to do with the cards".

2) BNC has not been completely honest and open about when said cards were purchased, when he has no reason not to be honest about this.

BNC could have trimmed him, he could not have. It doesn't matter. The dude is just as shady as all the other types that have seeped in and out of the hobby over the years. Point blank, that's what it is. No need to sugar coat it. There doesn't need to be an ebitz rebuttal to try and save face.

He posted once and it was enough for a rational person to go "Wait, what? "What is the forum" is a bigger question than altered Lebron EXQ RPAs?"

The hobby will survive and move on. Hopefully others won't fall victim to the fraud that is wrought within our hobby and this thread serves as a reminder to many. That's the best we can hope for. Nobody should have to endure like the member below:

Originally Posted by elee712

I recall a couple years ago there was a one color LBJ that was in pretty bad condition, could have been a bgs 6..then sold for relatively cheap and resurrected as a bgs 8 or something.

I was into the high end market for a while and then I essentially lost 100k on a card that that turned out being trimmed. Pretty much ruined the hobby for me. Met quite a few people in the high end market during that time and they were all pleasant and the nicest people you can meet. Came to realize they are just buttering you up to get a good deal on your cards. If you don't have what they want anymore, they could care less about you.

I'm interested to know how good a friend can you be after just a few conversations about cards... Enough to have their backs when they are obviously in the wrong? I dont know, reminds me of when I was a kid and people were only your friend because you always had the newest toys.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by smalltown

I said the same earlier.

I wonder how many cards on his site are altered? Has to be quite a bit. I’m not just talking about the Lebron’s. What a sad joke this all is.

[splum]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

I wonder how many cards on his site are altered? Has to be quite a bit. I’m not just talking about the Lebron’s. What a sad joke this all is.

Yeah. I am not at all surprised to see at least one high end collector trying to ditch their Exquisites on Instagram while not making a peep here.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

We all know he won't.

It's kind of inconsequential (in my eyes) who actually trimmed the cards. The fact is:

1) BNC knows they're trimmed and has done nothing other than state "I don't even know what I'm going to do with the cards".

2) BNC has not been completely honest and open about when said cards were purchased, when he has no reason not to be honest about this.

BNC could have trimmed him, he could not have. It doesn't matter. The dude is just as shady as all the other types that have seeped in and out of the hobby over the years. Point blank, that's what it is. No need to sugar coat it. There doesn't need to be an ebitz rebuttal to try and save face.

He posted once and it was enough for a rational person to go "Wait, what? "What is the forum" is a bigger question than altered Lebron EXQ RPAs?"

The hobby will survive and move on. Hopefully others won't fall victim to the fraud that is wrought within our hobby and this thread serves as a reminder to many. That's the best we can hope for. Nobody should have to endure like the member below:

Yeah it doesn’t matter if he trimmed or not. The fact that he’s done nothing to protect others about these altered cards and lied should be enough to at least be banned from this forum. But I’m sure he has multiple accounts on here anyways like most scammers. If this high end member and his buddies are something this community/forum wants in their group and is allowed to stick around, then I’m sure this place will be looked down on as well. I would think this forum would want to protect it’s reputation by removing people like this.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by smalltown

2. BGS/PSA/SGC need to start tracking what they grade. Especially for cards which are known to sell above a certain threshold. It needs to be Photographed and details recorded. After all they charge more for those cards. If a card comes through their system a second time they should have record of it and be aware of any defects and reasons for the grade at the time.

100% this.
Yes, grading is subjective, but it's absurd that the exact same card can be graded multiple times like they do. Pop reports greater than the production number of a card exist, which is just ridiculous.

As for this whole situation, every single high end card that could have come via BNC is now in question. Is anybody worried about what they own? How do you track the history of your card that may have changed hands at least 5 times since? It won't be the downfall of the hobby, but it could have a huge impact.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by splum

Yeah. I am not at all surprised to see at least one high end collector trying to ditch their Exquisites on Instagram while not making a peep here.

Wouldn’t surprise me if some contacted each other privately and they all start dumping their cards. Can’t be the last guy holding the altered cards. That might be why there’s so much stalling and people misleading others in here.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Yeah it doesn’t matter if he trimmed or not. The fact that he’s done nothing to protect others about these altered cards and lied should be enough to at least be banned from this forum. But I’m sure he has multiple accounts on here anyways like most scammers. If this high end member and his buddies are something this community/forum wants in their group and is allowed to stick around, then I’m sure this place will be looked down on as well. I would think this forum would want to protect it’s reputation by removing people like this.

I doubt they ban ebitz.

Interesting question though, and I think jmscoggins (could be wrong) posted this earlier. Since cards are technically the property of the owner, should the owner be allowed to alter the cards?

It's been asked 100 times over, but if I'm being completely unbiased and objective, EVEN IF Eric trimmed them personally himself using DevinKurants nail clippers, should he be allowed to do so? Does the harm come from the alteration, or only when you go to sell and don't disclose?

I try to see things from all sides, and I'm not sure where I stand. Obviously Eric will sell this card eventually and should disclose the altered state. Assuming he never does and he actually is being buried with these RPAs, should he be allowed to keep his trim to himself? I can see both sides to the argument.

[SteveO21]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

At the very least, shouldn't someone with a Lebron James Exquisite RPA database on their website (link below) update the notes on the cards he knows are trimmed with something to warn others? He's known for weeks and nothing has been changed there.

https://buynicecards.com/lebron-exquisite-database

Originally Posted by smalltown

I said the same earlier.

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

We all know he won't.

It's kind of inconsequential (in my eyes) who actually trimmed the cards. The fact is:

1) BNC knows they're trimmed and has done nothing other than state "I don't even know what I'm going to do with the cards".

2) BNC has not been completely honest and open about when said cards were purchased, when he has no reason not to be honest about this.

BNC could have trimmed him, he could not have. It doesn't matter. The dude is just as shady as all the other types that have seeped in and out of the hobby over the years. Point blank, that's what it is. No need to sugar coat it. There doesn't need to be an ebitz rebuttal to try and save face.

He posted once and it was enough for a rational person to go "Wait, what? "What is the forum" is a bigger question than altered Lebron EXQ RPAs?"

The hobby will survive and move on. Hopefully others won't fall victim to the fraud that is wrought within our hobby and this thread serves as a reminder to many. That's the best we can hope for. Nobody should have to endure like the member below:

Back when Eric popped in and posted in this thread I asked him via PM if he had any intentions of being upfront and honest about the trimmed Lebrons...

Me - "So, now that you do know the 74/99 and 87/99 Lebron Exquisite RPAs have been trimmed, will you be sending them to BGS to re-slab them with the "ALTERED" label so that in the future if you do decide to sell either of them any potential buyers will know 100% that they have been altered in some way and would be making the purchase with full knowledge that the cards had been trimmed in the past? I think that would be the most honest way to go about selling them in the future, should you decide to sell."

Eric - "i think i addressed you question in the thread but to focus on it more I don't really plan on doing anything immediately. If I was offering them for sale in the market then I would give some thought to it but I'm not and I have no plans of doing so. If it comes to the point where I want to sell them I will consult
some other experts and form my own opinion of the best way to handle it properly"

[darscards35kd]

Does somebody care to summarize the juice for somebody like me who hasn't been following? Seems like some members have been implicated but can't figure out who and don't feel like reading 50 pages lol.