NBA Top Shot - High Risk, High Reward?

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Wildcat55

I don’t disagree but platforms also evolve as does the overall hobby. I know you lost like half your purchase price on your Brogdon moments, have had issues buying packs like most, and have trouble withdrawing, so maybe this is not part of the hobby that’s for you. You joined Dibbs as well and nothing wrong with another hobby within a hobby if you are interested in fractional collecting. If you are in it just to make money, flip, and for the gambling aspect of it, then roll with it and when the easy money dries up you (and I) are going to be left with little option but to move on. I think many of us long time physical card collectors are at that crossroads now. I’m priced out, by choice, from most wax and hobby boxes. I buy mostly vintage singles now but even those are starting to look unappealing.

Not trying to argue with you at all but I was simply pointing out that while they are targeting collectors, you currently don’t meet their definition. I do today, but likely won’t soon if they keep raising the moment count limits or require something like a challenge to be completed. Cheers and hopefully we end up with a TS platform that gets better for all.

Because they're not "targeting collectors."

They are leveraging tactics that they have deemed the best tactic to maximize their revenue. Which means they have to maximize the window that their platform is still relevant. Which means forcing people to stay in the "collection" game if they want to be in the "profit" game.

[Wizkid]

Originally Posted by ovrcollect

In between all that, you have the botters eating up every decent serial at low ask, with no low ask appreciation..

I noticed this happening as well and wondered why they aren't banning these accounts. They seem easy enough for them to identify since the same accounts snap up low serials so quickly. I remember the account that got the mispriced Lebron at $2800 like 2 weeks ago, and initially I thought it was just luck that this account got it. But then I saw the same account got a really low serial for cheap of the same moment that I had purchased (the same day) and at that point I assumed it wasn't a coincidence.

[TFCNB]

A lot of interesting takes here for sure.

TS definitely has issues, but I don't think the current ask for a PREMIUM pack is that big of a hurdle. Yes it excludes some new collectors, but otherwise many of those same new collectors would be in a queue with 500K "accounts" for 19K packs, so still outside looking in. They need to do something so bots don't take over the marketplace and premium pack drops. KYC on sign up would be ideal, but TS doesn't want to go that way, $$$ matters, they like that 5% rake.

[Wildcat55]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

Because they're not "targeting collectors."

They are leveraging tactics that they have deemed the best tactic to maximize their revenue. Which means they have to maximize the window that their platform is still relevant. Which means forcing people to stay in the "collection" game if they want to be in the "profit" game.

Yep..”Collector’s” is a term they are forcing people into but the alternative at the moment is to have a queue with 500,000 people in it for 50,000 or less packs. I’ve been on TS since Mid January and made a decent amount of money (withdrawn a good amount already too) and it was very frustrating to join a drop and be #190,000 in line with no chance at a pack, week after week. Then I’d read this thread and read a post about “my friend or I just joined and got #8000 so I’m getting this pack...how much am I going to make? This platform is awesome”.
This platform actually needs that but at the same time there can’t be queues with 100’s of thousands of people who simply just wait for their lucky number to be called to buy a pack and are only sellers. I hate this manipulation like everyone else but the alternative with no requirements was worse in my opinion.

[omega145]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

You had to have the moments before they made the announcement. They're not letting people react after the announcement to make the cutoff.. They want people being more proactive so that when the next one is announced, they'll feel like they're covered.

I understand this and actually don't have a problem with Top Shot doing this but is it proven? Does it not let you join the drop or you can join but just not buy if you are given a chance?

[rysportguy]

Topshot will make a ton more money on that 5% if they can grow this 10x bigger. They have way more incentive to grow the company than to get short term profits (they already raised over $300 million in the last month so don't need cash). They just aren't ready yet for new collectors. Like others said if they join a queue with 500k people and have under a 5% chance at a pack that would turn off a ton of new users also. If they can't withdraw for a month that turns off new collectors. This isn't ready to bring in new collectors yet, this was never meant to get this big this fast and they need to catch up on backlogs. I think they are targeting playoffs for when they want to start bringing in tons of new users and unfortunately new users that find the site now might be turned off to it.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

Topshot will make a ton more money on that 5% if they can grow this 10x bigger. They have way more incentive to grow the company than to get short term profits (they already raised over $300 million in the last month so don't need cash). They just aren't ready yet for new collectors. Like others said if they join a queue with 500k people and have under a 5% chance at a pack that would turn off a ton of new users also. If they can't withdraw for a month that turns off new collectors. This isn't ready to bring in new collectors yet, this was never meant to get this big this fast and they need to catch up on backlogs. I think they are targeting playoffs for when they want to start bringing in tons of new users and unfortunately new users that find the site now might be turned off to it.

The $300m is not for TopShot. It's for Dapper. They will and probably already are in process of building something new.

You're acting like Topshot is an independent company when it's just a piece of the whole and will be a smaller piece of a larger whole as Dapper expands.

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

The $300m is not for TopShot. It's for Dapper. They'll and probably already are in process of building something new.

You're acting like Topshot is an independent company when it's just a piece of the whole and will be a smaller piece of a larger whole as Dapper expands.

The 5% fee is for Dapper also...so change my first word to Dapper instead if that makes you feel better. Unless you are trying to insinuate that they are literally doing this because they need those extra 5% transaction fees right now to survive.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Wildcat55

Yep..”Collector’s” is a term there are forcing people into but the alternative at the moment is to have a queue with 500,000 people in it for 50,000 or less packs. I’ve been on TS since Mid January and made a decent amount of money (withdrawn a good amount already too) and it was very frustrating to join a drop and be #190,000 in line with no chance at a pack, week after week. Then I’d read this thread and read a post about “my friend or I just joined and got #8000 so I’m getting this pack...how much am I going to make? This platform is awesome”.
This platform actually needs that but at the same there can’t be queues with 100’s of thousands of people who simply just wait for their lucky number to be called to buy a pack and are only sellers. I hate this manipulation like everyone else but the alternative with no requirements was worse in my opinion.

Same here. I've already withdrawn triple my initial investment in Dapper. I've got some balance to play with and I have my 15 moments, mostly of the team I PC (Celtics) and a few other players I got cheap with upside.

Gives me something to do. I don't like the way Dapper does things either, so I'll sit here and gripe about it from time to time. But buying whatever amount of $6-$7 moments I needed to hit the minimum after the announcement a couple weeks ago was easy.

My first foray into TS was buying a Trae Young moment that I paid over $100 for, so I hit that minimum the day I started on the platform.

Hopefully I get lucky today. I'll see what I get, might pull out some more $$$ and buy some cardboard that I really collect.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by omega145

I understand this and actually don't have a problem with Top Shot doing this but is it proven? Does it not let you join the drop or you can join but just not buy if you are given a chance?

If you go to the site now, it will tell you if you're eligible or not.

If you're not, they won't let you in the drop.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

The 5% fee is for Dapper also...so change my first word to Dapper instead if that makes you feel better. Unless you are trying to insinuate that they are literally doing this because they need those extra 5% transaction fees right now to survive.

He’s just pointing out that those investment dollars weren’t specifically for TS anymore than they were for the kitties.

There’s a reason the investment money went to the company instead of buying moments on the marketplace.

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

He’s just pointing out that those investment dollars weren’t specifically for TS anymore than they were for the kitties.

There’s a reason the investment money went to the company instead of buying moments on the marketplace.

Yeah I'll try this again.


Dapper will make a ton more money on that 5% if they can grow this 10x bigger. They have way more incentive to grow the company than to get short term profits (they already raised over $300 million in the last month so they aren't starving for cash). They just aren't ready yet for new collectors. Like others said if they join a queue with 500k people and have under a 5% chance at a pack that would turn off a ton of new users also. If they can't withdraw for a month that turns off new collectors. This isn't ready to bring in new collectors yet, this was never meant to get this big this fast and they need to catch up on backlogs. I think they are targeting playoffs for when they want to start bringing in tons of new users and unfortunately new users that find the site now might be turned off to it.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

Yeah I'll try this again.


Dapper will make a ton more money on that 5% if they can grow this 10x bigger. They have way more incentive to grow the company than to get short term profits (they already raised over $300 million in the last month so they aren't starving for cash). They just aren't ready yet for new collectors. Like others said if they join a queue with 500k people and have under a 5% chance at a pack that would turn off a ton of new users also. If they can't withdraw for a month that turns off new collectors. This isn't ready to bring in new collectors yet, this was never meant to get this big this fast and they need to catch up on backlogs. I think they are targeting playoffs for when they want to start bringing in tons of new users and unfortunately new users that find the site now might be turned off to it.

You can't just change topshot to dapper because ultimately everything you typed means the exact same thing.

Everything for you is focused entirely on topshot and you can't or won't see the forest for the trees.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

Yeah I'll try this again.


Dapper will make a ton more money on that 5% if they can grow this 10x bigger. They have way more incentive to grow the company than to get short term profits (they already raised over $300 million in the last month so they aren't starving for cash). They just aren't ready yet for new collectors. Like others said if they join a queue with 500k people and have under a 5% chance at a pack that would turn off a ton of new users also. If they can't withdraw for a month that turns off new collectors. This isn't ready to bring in new collectors yet, this was never meant to get this big this fast and they need to catch up on backlogs. I think they are targeting playoffs for when they want to start bringing in tons of new users and unfortunately new users that find the site now might be turned off to it.

I agree with you about growing it bigger and that being Dapper's goal, I just think that everything they've done up to this point is the antithesis of growing a new platform. They caught lightning in a bottle organically, and instead of letting things organically play out immediately went on to try and manipulate the secondary market for a desired outcome. No legitimate business does this.

If this was a public company investors would be calling for Roham's head right now.

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I agree with you about growing it bigger and that being Dapper's goal, I just think that everything they've done up to this point is the antithesis of growing a new platform. They caught lightning in a bottle organically, and instead of letting things organically play out immediately went on to try and manipulate the secondary market for a desired outcome. No legitimate business does this.

If this was a public company investors would be calling for Roham's head right now.

The desired outcome is to avoid bots and multi accouters. If you think they are trying to manipulate the market to make prices higher they sure have done a terrible job with that. People love free money and this company gave away a ton of free money. The only major thing they need to fix is the +EV from packs and then the rest will sort itself out.

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

You can't just change topshot to dapper because ultimately everything you typed means the exact same thing.

Everything for you is focused entirely on topshot and you can't or won't see the forest for the trees.

I still don't know what you are trying to say. Are you countering my point that they have more incentive to grow the company and make 5% of a larger market rather than make quick cash now? Or is it a different part you are talking about.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

The desired outcome is to avoid bots and multi accouters. If you think they are trying to manipulate the market to make prices higher they sure have done a terrible job with that. People love free money and this company gave away a ton of free money. The only major thing they need to fix is the +EV from packs and then the rest will sort itself out.

I do think that’s what they’ve done and continue to do and I do think they’re doing a terrible job.

I could also be wrong. I’m a moron.

They were always going to have a supply issue. They’re unintentionally causing a demand issue IMO. Recipe for disaster.

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I do think that’s what they’ve done and continue to do and I do think they’re doing a terrible job.

I could also be wrong. I’m a moron.

They were always going to have a supply issue. They’re unintentionally causing a demand issue IMO. Recipe for disaster.

This is why they are trying to do the snapshot scenario. The first time they did requirements they announced it before and it caused a huge rush of people buying 3 moments. If they didn't have the snapshot and instead let people qualify until the drop think of how much more insane demand they would create.

[Satan]

Edit: nvm posted to TS Discord and got 20 in seconds lmao

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

I still don't know what you are trying to say. Are you countering my point that they have more incentive to grow the company and make 5% of a larger market rather than make quick cash now? Or is it a different part you are talking about.

Originally Posted by rysportguy

They have way more incentive to grow the company than to get short term profits (they already raised over $300 million in the last month so don't need cash)

You act as if Dapper is solely invested in topshot, all that money is exclusive and they're doing everything for that marketplace. When in reality the seed money was a big bet on the gold standard in NFT development.

They're trying to squeeze as much as possible out of topshot, call it manipulation, call it whatever you want. Every single move they've made it to squeeze money out of the userbase.

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Putting requirements and eligibility stipulations on who can even attempt to purchase packs is a horrendous business decision when you’re trying to grow a company.

It seems like almost everything Dapper does is short sighted and leads to negative sentiment.

It's not short-sighted from their point of view. The 5% keeps the lights on!

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

Not many people mean it when they say "LOL" but I legit laughed out loud when I read that post.

You've looked down your nose at people here who have been singing that same song for weeks/months. Calling everyone a negative nancy if they have gripes about the way TS is doing things.

Now TopShot bit YOU in the ass, it's your turn to be negative, since you're doing it for the right reasons?

It's ironic, don't you think?

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

The 5% fee is for Dapper also...so change my first word to Dapper instead if that makes you feel better. Unless you are trying to insinuate that they are literally doing this because they need those extra 5% transaction fees right now to survive.

They do need those 5% fees to pay the bills, the $300MM doesn't have anything to do with this.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

Not many people mean it when they say "LOL" but I legit laughed out loud when I read that post.

You've looked down your nose at people here who have been singing that same song for weeks/months. Calling everyone a negative nancy if they have gripes about the way TS is doing things.

Now TopShot bit YOU in the ass, it's your turn to be negative, since you're doing it for the right reasons?

Vinny has not been calling out anyone for being negative as far as I can remember. He's been one of the most even keel and transparent posters in this thread.

It's really mainly just one guy that calls out "all da haterzzzzzzzzz" (not ryguy)

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

You act as if Dapper is solely invested in topshot, all that money is exclusive and they're doing everything for that marketplace. When in reality the seed money was a big bet on the gold standard in NFT development.

They're trying to squeeze as much as possible out of topshot, call it manipulation, call it whatever you want. Every single move they've made it to squeeze money out of the userbase.

Okay so you really are trying to say what I thought you were trying to say. So you think this is a short term money grab that they can just do over and over again with other NFT's. I am starting to get curious how many people are out there that actually do genuinely enjoy these moments. I'm starting to think I may be on a pretty small island here lol