PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 53

superdan49 · 05-20-2019, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

So can we start looking at every rough cut card sold by PWCC for trimmed cards?

It is one of the things I now look for. Ironically, it used to be how I thought you could more easily spot unaltered cards.

corndog · 05-20-2019, 08:16 PM

Ted Williams 1948 Leaf #76

Card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-4 from seller uiwsupply for $599.95 on June 09, 2017. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ton-1871524519
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-5 for $1403.78 on Sept. 28, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1554402

Green circles are fiber identifiers.
Red areas show pre and post trim border.

Card was trimmed on the right side.

metsandweezer · 05-20-2019, 08:19 PM

How does PSA miss that one? ^^

hxcmilkshake · 05-20-2019, 08:24 PM

Was that one shilled? He was probably expecting a 7.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Keyser Soze · 05-20-2019, 08:26 PM

So, to sum all of this up, this effing a-hole has been doing this for years and making a crap ton of money and, apparently, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. If PWCC stops dealing with him, they're be 50 other integrity-less jerkoffs fighting over the right to make money hand-over-fist selling his crap. Coming to an American Greed episode near you..... starring the former and fallen hobby titans PWCC and PSA. Hope the money was worth it.

MoreToppsPlease · 05-20-2019, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

So, to sum all of this up, this effing a-hole has been doing this for years and making a crap ton of money and, apparently, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. If PWCC stops dealing with him, they're be 50 other integrity-less jerkoffs fighting over the right to make money hand-over-fist selling his crap. Coming to an American Greed episode near you..... starring the former and fallen hobby titans PWCC and PSA. Hope the money was worth it.

It’s not just the money...so many great cards are now ruined.

Not to mention grading is in absolute shambles.

jasonm2121 · 05-20-2019, 08:29 PM

Think they know when his orders come in?

hxcmilkshake · 05-20-2019, 08:33 PM

Figure he can "modify" 100 cards a year, 25 yrs...and he's just one guy....

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Wiseguy917 · 05-20-2019, 08:58 PM

If PSA can’t figure out that this guy is trimming cards, you’d have to believe that there around 100s, if not 1000s of other subbers that are trimming cards. There’s probably 100s of thousands of trimmed cards in slabs. PSA is a joke.

ThoseBackPages · 05-20-2019, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

If PSA can’t figure out that this guy is trimming cards, you’d have to believe that there around 100s, if not 1000s of other subbers that are trimming cards. There’s probably 100s of thousands of trimmed cards in slabs. PSA is a joke.

they are all trimmed!

grading is a scam!

Wiseguy917 · 05-20-2019, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

they are all trimmed!

grading is a scam!

I offered you a nice Mantle on your BST thread. LMK if you’re interested...

ThoseBackPages · 05-20-2019, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

I offered you a nice Mantle on your BST thread. LMK if you’re interested...

saw that. just a few years off though

superdan49 · 05-20-2019, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

they are all trimmed!

grading is a scam!

Wait, aren't you a Long Island guy? Maybe you can visit Moser's barber shop in Melville and get yourself a discount on a nice trimmed Mantle.

ThoseBackPages · 05-20-2019, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Wait, aren't you a Long Island guy? Maybe you can visit Moser's barber shop in Melville and get yourself a discount on a nice trimmed Mantle.

NICE!

rcmb3220 · 05-20-2019, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandweezer

How does PSA miss that one? ^^

That might have started off life slightly oversized. It fills up the entire holder in the 4. But he really took a chunk out of it.

The number I’ve always heard was that tolerance was +/- 1/64 inch. But that theory is out the window now.

I had an 87 Fleer MJ which is notoriously cut short from the factory that was 1/32 short. 1/32 is noticeably short to the naked eye. And comically short when compared to a normal card. I don’t see how they can miss something like this even without a ruler.

corndog · 05-20-2019, 09:34 PM

Jackie Robinson 1948 Leaf #79

Card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a SGC-4 from Heritage Auction on May 14, 2017 and was included in the same submission as the Ted Williams above. Numerically it is the next card after the Williams. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-50-1878304237
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-5 for $4,300.00 on Dec. 10, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1598465

Yellow circles are fiber identifiers.
Red square on back shows pre and post trim edge using the fiber spot for reference.

Split images provide conclusive proof that the card has been trimmed on the left and possibly the right.

gg.

shagrotn77 · 05-20-2019, 09:46 PM

I applaud all of you who are working to uncover all of the fraud and corruption that's been unearthed in this thread. It's nice to know that are people out there like you who care about collectors and the pieces of history they collect that are constantly being destroyed. My question is, are there any plans to bring this information further into the public eye? As in, to the masses? I'm fearful that this latest scandal could go the way soooooooo many have gone before that were (seemingly) quickly forgotten about.

As someone mentioned earlier, the percentage of collectors who read message boards is actually very small. Thus, the vast majority of people putting money into these bad cards have NO IDEA what's going on. I personally bought some cards from WIWAG back in the day and did not even hear out about that scandal until years after it occurred - when I first joined a message board. Pretty scary.

Thank you again for your terrific detective work. It is much appreciated.

superdan49 · 05-20-2019, 09:51 PM

Corndog you are killing it tonight. Nice work, my friend.

MoreToppsPlease · 05-20-2019, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

I applaud all of you who are working to uncover all of the fraud and corruption that's been unearthed in this thread. It's nice to know that are people out there like you who care about collectors and the pieces of history they collect that are constantly being destroyed. My question is, are there any plans to bring this information further into the public eye? As in, to the masses? I'm fearful that this latest scandal could go the way soooooooo many have gone before that were (seemingly) quickly forgotten about.

As someone mentioned earlier, the percentage of collectors who read message boards is actually very small. Thus, the vast majority of people putting money into these bad cards have NO IDEA what's going on. I personally bought some cards from WIWAG back in the day and did not even hear out about that scandal until years after it occurred - when I first joined a message board. Pretty scary.

Thank you again for your terrific detective work. It is much appreciated.

Good idea. I’d hate to see the informed dump everything as fast as they can before the little guys/the uninformed find out.

I’d suggest contacting eBay and Beckett magazine. Frankly, shouldn’t PSA be leading the communication effort...? They’re a publicly traded corporation.

corndog · 05-20-2019, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Corndog you are killing it tonight. Nice work, my friend.

As you know, there is so much more.

SCR · 05-20-2019, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Good idea. I’d hate to see the informed dump everything as fast as they can before the little guys/the uninformed find out.

I’d suggest contacting eBay and Beckett magazine. Frankly, shouldn’t PSA be leading the communication effort...? They’re a publicly traded corporation.

I'm sure Beckett will write an article on trimmed & fake BGS cards

MoreToppsPlease · 05-20-2019, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCR

I'm sure Beckett will write an article on trimmed & fake BGS cards

Yeah, I know...

Our hobby is so easy to be taken advantage of, so much shadiness!

superdan49 · 05-20-2019, 11:04 PM

1951 Parkhurst #105 Jim Conacher PSA 5 to PSA 8

Sold on 10/20/2018 as a PSA 5 by eBay seller scu316 to whitman111 (Gary Moser) for $70
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 3/25/2019 as a PSA 8 for $661
Value gain of $591

Here's a quick hockey one from Moser. The left edge has been definitely been trimmed, and perhaps all four edges. The corners have been sharpened too. The PSA 5 photo was blurry, so I had to keep the provided photos large to see the detail, but you can see the common paper fibers on the front and print marks on the back match up perfectly (see the green circles).

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...105-1957019607

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1934542

irv · 05-21-2019, 05:21 AM

I could maybe give PSA an occasionally out sometime if they are missing some of this/these doctor's practices like adding color, fixing a corner, etc, but when cards are short and/or narrow that clearly don't fit properly in their slabs, that is inexcusable, imo.
This should definitely not be happening with any grading company, let alone the "Never get cheated" company.

corndog · 05-21-2019, 05:54 AM

Just noticed after viewing on my phone that the split images on some of my posts don't line up correctly.
On my home PC they do. I don't think that there anything I can do.

05-20-2019, 08:16 PM	#1302
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,621	Ted Williams 1948 Leaf #76 Card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-4 from seller uiwsupply for $599.95 on June 09, 2017. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ton-1871524519 Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-5 for $1403.78 on Sept. 28, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1554402 Green circles are fiber identifiers. Red areas show pre and post trim border. Card was trimmed on the right side. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

05-20-2019, 08:26 PM	#1305
Keyser Soze Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Close enough to Houston to say Houston Posts: 9,549	So, to sum all of this up, this effing a-hole has been doing this for years and making a crap ton of money and, apparently, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. If PWCC stops dealing with him, they're be 50 other integrity-less jerkoffs fighting over the right to make money hand-over-fist selling his crap. Coming to an American Greed episode near you..... starring the former and fallen hobby titans PWCC and PSA. Hope the money was worth it. __________________ Every post you can hitch your faith on is a pie in the sky, chock full of lies a tool we devise to make sinking stones fly

05-20-2019, 08:58 PM	#1309
Wiseguy917 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 3,558	If PSA can’t figure out that this guy is trimming cards, you’d have to believe that there around 100s, if not 1000s of other subbers that are trimming cards. There’s probably 100s of thousands of trimmed cards in slabs. PSA is a joke. __________________ PSA is like a 70s Porn Star...They don’t care if it’s trimmed or not. Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets

05-20-2019, 09:34 PM	#1316
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,621	Jackie Robinson 1948 Leaf #79 Card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a SGC-4 from Heritage Auction on May 14, 2017 and was included in the same submission as the Ted Williams above. Numerically it is the next card after the Williams. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-50-1878304237 Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-5 for $4,300.00 on Dec. 10, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1598465 Yellow circles are fiber identifiers. Red square on back shows pre and post trim edge using the fiber spot for reference. Split images provide conclusive proof that the card has been trimmed on the left and possibly the right. gg. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal. Last edited by corndog; 05-20-2019 at 09:49 PM.

05-20-2019, 09:51 PM	#1318
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	Corndog you are killing it tonight. Nice work, my friend. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

05-20-2019, 08:19 PM	#1303
metsandweezer Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 13,052 Cascardo4	How does PSA miss that one? ^^

05-20-2019, 08:24 PM	#1304
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,283 hxcmilkshake	Was that one shilled? He was probably expecting a 7. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

05-20-2019, 08:29 PM	#1307
jasonm2121 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: GOAT City Posts: 11,997	Think they know when his orders come in?

05-20-2019, 08:33 PM	#1308
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,283 hxcmilkshake	Figure he can "modify" 100 cards a year, 25 yrs...and he's just one guy.... Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

05-20-2019, 09:46 PM	#1317
shagrotn77 Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 96	I applaud all of you who are working to uncover all of the fraud and corruption that's been unearthed in this thread. It's nice to know that are people out there like you who care about collectors and the pieces of history they collect that are constantly being destroyed. My question is, are there any plans to bring this information further into the public eye? As in, to the masses? I'm fearful that this latest scandal could go the way soooooooo many have gone before that were (seemingly) quickly forgotten about. As someone mentioned earlier, the percentage of collectors who read message boards is actually very small. Thus, the vast majority of people putting money into these bad cards have NO IDEA what's going on. I personally bought some cards from WIWAG back in the day and did not even hear out about that scandal until years after it occurred - when I first joined a message board. Pretty scary. Thank you again for your terrific detective work. It is much appreciated.

05-20-2019, 11:04 PM	#1323
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	1951 Parkhurst #105 Jim Conacher PSA 5 to PSA 8 Sold on 10/20/2018 as a PSA 5 by eBay seller scu316 to whitman111 (Gary Moser) for $70 Consigned to PWCC and sold on 3/25/2019 as a PSA 8 for $661 Value gain of $591 Here's a quick hockey one from Moser. The left edge has been definitely been trimmed, and perhaps all four edges. The corners have been sharpened too. The PSA 5 photo was blurry, so I had to keep the provided photos large to see the detail, but you can see the common paper fibers on the front and print marks on the back match up perfectly (see the green circles). https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...105-1957019607 https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1934542 __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

05-21-2019, 05:21 AM	#1324
irv Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada. Posts: 1,029	I could maybe give PSA an occasionally out sometime if they are missing some of this/these doctor's practices like adding color, fixing a corner, etc, but when cards are short and/or narrow that clearly don't fit properly in their slabs, that is inexcusable, imo. This should definitely not be happening with any grading company, let alone the *"Never get cheated"* company. __________________ My 52 Topps collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/

05-21-2019, 05:54 AM	#1325
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,621	Just noticed after viewing on my phone that the split images on some of my posts don't line up correctly. On my home PC they do. I don't think that there anything I can do. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.