The Zion 'Fatboi' Williamson Career LDL/HDL Tracker | BBW Appreciation Megathread.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

ill say zion looks to be in better shape and his running form doesnt look as awkward.

One of the most glowing descriptions of an athlete ever.

This isn’t directed at you, Ping...

What exactly does he do that makes him stand out from other players?

Not his handles, shooting, passing, doesn’t rebound like you’d think he might, not a stellar defender.

He’s a big guy with hops who can score with bully ball.

Big Wigg.

[StrongandFree86]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

ill say zion looks to be in better shape and his running form doesnt look as awkward.

I thought his passing looked pretty good last night too.

[viperdays]

I have been saying Randle 2.0 for a while now. I am not sure he will be the complete player Randle is.

Randle 23.2 pts 10.5 rebs 6.7 assists
Williamson 21.8 pts 8.5 rebs 1.6 assists

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by viperdays

I have been saying Randle 2.0 for a while now. I am not sure he will be the complete player Randle is.

Randle 23.2 pts 10.5 rebs 6.7 assists
Williamson 21.8 pts 8.5 rebs 1.6 assists

Good comparison. Very good.

[StrongandFree86]

Originally Posted by viperdays

I have been saying Randle 2.0 for a while now. I am not sure he will be the complete player Randle is.

Randle 23.2 pts 10.5 rebs 6.7 assists
Williamson 21.8 pts 8.5 rebs 1.6 assists

Why are people comparing a guy with 34 NBA games under their belt, a good chunk of which were played under a minutes restriction, to guys that have played 10 times as many games. Randle averaged 11.3 pts a game as a rookie.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

One of the most glowing descriptions of an athlete ever.

This isn’t directed at you, Ping...

What exactly does he do that makes him stand out from other players?

Not his handles, shooting, passing, doesn’t rebound like you’d think he might, not a stellar defender.

He’s a big guy with hops who can score with bully ball.

Big Wigg.

the things i said were in relation to heavy criticisms from last season. regardless of bully ball, zion finishes around the rim very well and has great touch for a strong man. he has shown in games he can consistently shoot the 3 but doesnt attempt them often. he still comes across has highly unpolished but the fundamentals are there.

[viperdays]

Originally Posted by StrongandFree86

Why are people comparing a guy with 34 NBA games under their belt, a good chunk of which were played under a minutes restriction, to guys that have played 10 times as many games. Randle averaged 11.3 pts a game as a rookie.

Why? Because they are physically similar. Also, sports is about making comparisons.

Btw Randle only averaged 28 minutes a game his rookie season too after coming off a horrific season ending injury in game one of his first season.

[StrongandFree86]

Originally Posted by viperdays

Why? Because they are physically similar. Also, sports is about making comparisons.

Btw Randle only averaged 28 minutes a game his rookie season too after coming off a horrific season ending injury in game one of his first season.

Right, but the stats you compared were taking Randle's best season by far, 5 years into his career, and comparing it to Zion's first 34 games. Doesn't seem like a good comparison to make in my opinion.

[Chris P]

3 Cellos later pulled this Blue!

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by Chris P

3 Cellos later pulled this Blue!

Sweet!

[viperdays]

Originally Posted by StrongandFree86

Right, but the stats you compared were taking Randle's best season by far, 5 years into his career, and comparing it to Zion's first 34 games. Doesn't seem like a good comparison to make in my opinion.

Yet, people try to compare him to all time greats such as Barkley, Malone, Shaq etc. Those comparisons are better?! The kid has ZERO perimeter game. He has taken just 5 shots outside the paint the entire year and he has made NONE of them. People talk trash about Simmons incessantly because he doesnt shoot 3s. IMO I see an evolution of his game that might lead him to... Julius Randle 2.0 . Is that what people are paying for?

[cardsin47]

Even though I previously posted on this thread that I have been “underwhelmed” so far —— that’s in part because I have $ thousands invested in this kid, and he was so highly touted, it would be almost impossible for him to live up to the expectations set before he even touched an NBA floor board.

I have faith that every scout in the universe sees in in him “the next great one”. They sure know a lot more than any of us non-scouts, that’s for sure!

[StrongandFree86]

Comparing his rookie stats to those guys would kind of make sense. Seeing as you like comparisons, here they are.

Barkley GP: 82 MP:28.6 PTS:14.0 REB:8.6 AST:1.9 STL:1.2 BLK:1.0 (Age 21)

Malone GP: 81 MP: 30.6 PTS: 14.9 REB: 8.9 AST: 2.9 STL: 1.3 BLK 0.5 (Age 22)

Zion GP:34 MP 29.1 PTS: 22.3 REB:6.9 AST: 1.9 STL: .8 BLK: .4 (Age 20)

Shaq: GP:81 MP: 37.9 PTS: 23.4 REB: 13.9 AST: 1.9 STL: .7 BLK: 3.5 (Age 20)

and Julius Randle.....

GP: 81 MP: 28.2 PTS: 11.3 REB: 10.2 AST: 1.8 STL: .7 BLK: .4 (Age 20)


Edit: Shaq was awesome.

Also, I didn't break out Zion's rookie year from this year, I don't think it matters, but I used career to date.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Even though I previously posted on this thread that I have been “underwhelmed” so far —— that’s in part because I have $ thousands invested in this kid, and he was so highly touted, it would be almost impossible for him to live up to the expectations set before he even touched an NBA floor board.

I have faith that every scout in the universe sees in in him “the next great one”. They sure know a lot more than any of us non-scouts, that’s for sure!

Wasn't Wiggins also a 'can't miss' prospect..?
I like Zion, if he can develop more of an offensive game he should be great. But even the 'can't miss' guys don't usually tend to look like all time greats (last one I'd say was LeBron).

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Wasn't Wiggins also a 'can't miss' prospect..?
I like Zion, if he can develop more of an offensive game he should be great. But even the 'can't miss' guys don't usually tend to look like all time greats (last one I'd say was LeBron).

Wiggins Schmiggins! ( you heard it here 1st, folks )

[Akphillips86]

Breaking news...

Zion becomes the first player in the history of the NBA to reach his peak at 20 years old!

According to Blowout Forums analysts, there is no chance he will become anything more than he already is today!

That’s right! You can take his stats, right now as a 20 year old who has played 34 games and compare him against both current players and the all time greats as a finished product!

Gone are the days when you take age/experience/development/maturation into consideration and think about how they may project in the future!

Just move on, nothing to see here folks!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldgoldy97]

Buy everyone! Unlimited potential! Don’t miss out!

[TheKillers11]

The narrative in this thread shits drastically on practically a daily basis. One of the best threads in the basketball forum for sure!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spacemanspif]

so, not trying to pick any online fights or anything, just highlighting some passages to point out the "narrative" aspect of the anti-Zion movement:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

He had so much hype and admiration in College - he was a living legend. So far, his NBA career is off to a slow, “this is the guy everyone’s been talking about?” start. I have quite a bit of his cardboard, and am a little concerned based on what I’ve seen so far. Averaging about, what, 22 pts per game? I think myself and a whole buncha’ people here were expecting more..... probably him, too

I know you walked it back later, but I think this is important. We're in the instant gratification, double your money every week era, so it's kind of crazy what people were expecting (honestly what could it have been, 22ppg is pretty good for a young guy imo)

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

This is the problem. I don’t mean this as offensive towards you, because this perspective is all over Blowout. A thread was literally just created talking about the two players swapping teams.

From a player perspective, Luka is Luka. Zion is Zion. Totally different players. Were people this obsessed with comparing Shaq and MJ?

From a hobby perspective, I would say if you can buy Luka at Luka prices that’s fine, but you have to understand there is a whole lot baked in there. I’ll gladly buy Zion at Zion prices. I don’t think Zion prices will ever be Luka prices, but one is actually a bargain compared to their ceiling. For me, it’s about trajectory.

Some of the takes on this thread are so pessimistic that I just have to laugh. It could be the only player thread that has more critics commenting than fans.


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I think some of it is resentment for him being the primary reason for all the new attention to cards and consequent explosion of prices. we both know his individual pricing has stalled while everything else has caught up, but the "Zion is overhyped / overpriced" is stuck in their brains, along with "I only pay SRP, screw the flipperboiz". meanwhile, "high five for the Lukas we bought last year!" you can't have one (increase in old inventory) without the other (new ridiculous buy in costs), but most people don't think that way.

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Without a jump shot or an elite handle how much better is Zion gonna be? Do you think he can average 30ppg and be the #1 guy on a contender? Cause that’s how he’s priced.

I think Zion is gonna be a really good player, multi time allstar but Luka is light years ahead of him and only gonna get better.

Ultimately I believe Zion will not live up to the prices or the hype but we will see

he's not overpriced anymore. see my repost at the bottom.

Originally Posted by viperdays

Yet, people try to compare him to all time greats such as Barkley, Malone, Shaq etc. Those comparisons are better?! The kid has ZERO perimeter game. He has taken just 5 shots outside the paint the entire year and he has made NONE of them. People talk trash about Simmons incessantly because he doesnt shoot 3s. IMO I see an evolution of his game that might lead him to... Julius Randle 2.0 . Is that what people are paying for?

these types of takes are typical, and convenient to use now. stuff evolves, as do players. Giannis (still) can't shoot well, and neither can LeBron, but if you're otherwise dominant, you just need to take enough for the defense to not completely sell out and ignore you. Simmons is not in any way dominant on the offensive end, where Zion is already to the point where if you give him the ball 15 feet from the basket and don't double, your defender is giving up 30+ while fouling out. right now he's already figuring out how to find the open man while being doubled, and eventually can add a jumper, but it's still early, and entirely unneeded at this point.

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Even though I previously posted on this thread that I have been “underwhelmed” so far —— that’s in part because I have $ thousands invested in this kid, and he was so highly touted, it would be almost impossible for him to live up to the expectations set before he even touched an NBA floor board.

I have faith that every scout in the universe sees in in him “the next great one”. They sure know a lot more than any of us non-scouts, that’s for sure!

AFAIK, actual NBA people who do this for a living, and the good marketing people at Nike and Gatorade see something in him. that gives me confidence, as they are set to lose far more than I if he's the bust that the BO troll crew is claiming him to be



Lastly, here's my post on the "Zion is overpriced" narrative. it's only 5 days old so I don't want to bother looking up the prices again.

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

I think the "Zion is expensive / overpriced" narrative had some truth behind it initially, but while everything else has grown, he's remained relatively stable (but the narrative from the peanut gallery remains). Now, I don't buy/sell Prizm Base slabs, but here's a quick look at some comps:

Zion ~$700
Ja ~$650
Trae ~$750
Luka ~$1700

Tyler Herro ~$250
Collin Sexton ~$250
Keldon Johnson ~$250

Take a look at that list and tell me Zion's prices are overvalued compared to some of the other names, or which card on that list already has MVPs/championships baked in (hint, it's not Z). Everything is speculative, and in my opinion his ceiling is higher than either guy at his price point (Ja or Trae), and I'll take him all day over the 3 bottom guys combined.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by viperdays

Randle 23.2 pts 10.5 rebs 6.7 assists
Williamson 21.8 pts 8.5 rebs 1.6 assists

Originally Posted by StrongandFree86

Randle averaged 11.3 pts a game as a rookie.

Originally Posted by viperdays

Why? Because they are physically similar. Also, sports is about making comparisons.

Btw Randle only averaged 28 minutes a game his rookie season too after coming off a horrific season ending injury in game one of his first season.

So, if Randle would have averaged 56 minutes per game his rookie year, he’d have averaged about as many ppg as Zion is now?

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

so, not trying to pick any online fights or anything, just highlighting some passages to point out the "narrative" aspect of the anti-Zion movement:



I know you walked it back later, but I think this is important. We're in the instant gratification, double your money every week era, so it's kind of crazy what people were expecting (honestly what could it have been, 22ppg is pretty good for a young guy imo)



I think some of it is resentment for him being the primary reason for all the new attention to cards and consequent explosion of prices. we both know his individual pricing has stalled while everything else has caught up, but the "Zion is overhyped / overpriced" is stuck in their brains, along with "I only pay SRP, screw the flipperboiz". meanwhile, "high five for the Lukas we bought last year!" you can't have one (increase in old inventory) without the other (new ridiculous buy in costs), but most people don't think that way.



he's not overpriced anymore. see my repost at the bottom.



these types of takes are typical, and convenient to use now. stuff evolves, as do players. Giannis (still) can't shoot well, and neither can LeBron, but if you're otherwise dominant, you just need to take enough for the defense to not completely sell out and ignore you. Simmons is not in any way dominant on the offensive end, where Zion is already to the point where if you give him the ball 15 feet from the basket and don't double, your defender is giving up 30+ while fouling out. right now he's already figuring out how to find the open man while being doubled, and eventually can add a jumper, but it's still early, and entirely unneeded at this point.



AFAIK, actual NBA people who do this for a living, and the good marketing people at Nike and Gatorade see something in him. that gives me confidence, as they are set to lose far more than I if he's the bust that the BO troll crew is claiming him to be



Lastly, here's my post on the "Zion is overpriced" narrative. it's only 5 days old so I don't want to bother looking up the prices again.

Well done !

[viperdays]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

So, if Randle would have averaged 56 minutes per game his rookie year, he’d have averaged about as many ppg as Zion is now?

The Zion excitement hovers around his athleticism and weight. But I would much prefer watching Zach Lavine throw down thunderous dunks, rain down 3s from the perimeter, and take the ball coast to coast on a nightly basis. Why is there no love for him? At best Zion will be Randle ,and seeing that there is no love for him, I am not sure why the cult like love for Zion in this thread. Man, does this thread remind me of the Lonzo Ball threads a few years ago or the Wiggins threads. My guess is that most here praising him are dumping their positions at the same time.

[ninjacookies]

If you're coming on blowout for in actual in-depth basketball knowledge and analysis...you're most likely doinitwrong.

My mans bberns got it right eons ago.

Leave it to the ANTIFAt legoin to swarm like a Warcraft zerg rush on a night where he matched Lebron for game-high scoring and his team in rebounds, no less. I'd hate to be a BI or AD investor during that 24hr period. But wait! Not a peep.


Would love to be a Zach Lowe fly on the wall observing peoples' understanding of age : performance correlations and development projections.





Still buying at 30% under Ebay comps. HMU. Ya'll being gunshy with them pm's.

Keep us at the top, bois!

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by viperdays

The Zion excitement hovers around his athleticism and weight. But I would much prefer watching Zach Lavine throw down thunderous dunks, rain down 3s from the perimeter, and take the ball coast to coast on a nightly basis. Why is there no love for him? At best Zion will be Randle ,and seeing that there is no love for him, I am not sure why the cult like love for Zion in this thread. Man, does this thread remind me of the Lonzo Ball threads a few years ago or the Wiggins threads. My guess is that most here praising him are dumping their positions at the same time.

You have no clue if zion is at best julius randle

[cowboyzqna]

Rather you believe in him or not... your talking about him and that matters.


The young man is polarizing.