PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[JrFinest]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Anyone else notice the trimmers are now able to imitate rough cut borders?

That border on that Mays would have made me skeptical.

[Wiseguy917]

Originally Posted by JrFinest

That border on that Mays would have made me skeptical.

Perhaps you should apply to PSA??

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by tconte

That second Mays is super skinny. How in the world did that get by PSA graders?

Can anyone tell if these are the normal slab widths and bumper sizes in the slabs with trimmed cards?

I agree it looks really skinny and wondering how well it fits in these slabs.

[JrFinest]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

Perhaps you should apply to PSA??

I mean seriously. That one rough cut edge (right side). it just doesn't look natural for that issue. I have never seen a 54 bowman look like that.

I cant believe it increased in grade after that.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by JrFinest

I mean seriously. That one rough cut edge (right side). it just doesn't look natural for that issue. I have never seen a 54 bowman look like that.

I cant believe it increased in grade after that.

True,it makes me wonder who these graders are. Newbie graders doing vintage? Has QC gone out the window?When I see an O-Pee-Chee issue, I expect rough cuts.

[Wiseguy917]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

True,it makes me wonder who these graders are. Newbie graders doing vintage? Has QC gone out the window?When I see an O-Pee-Chee issue, I expect rough cuts.

It has nothing to do with newbies or QC. It has everything to do with PSA being in cahoots with this trimmer. Every single sign points to that. The fact that there are now becoming almost COUNTLESS cards tied to this same guy, graded by PSA, means only one thing. If slabheads don’t want to see this reality then I feel bad for them but grading is dead and it’s a total scam.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It has nothing to do with newbies or QC. It has everything to do with PSA being in cahoots with this trimmer. Every single sign points to that. The fact that there are now becoming almost COUNTLESS cards tied to this same guy, graded by PSA, means only one thing. If slabheads don’t want to see this reality then I feel bad for them but grading is dead and it’s a total scam.

i hope soon! Mantles to own!

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It has nothing to do with newbies or QC. It has everything to do with PSA being in cahoots with this trimmer. Every single sign points to that. The fact that there are now becoming almost COUNTLESS cards tied to this same guy, graded by PSA, means only one thing. If slabheads don’t want to see this reality then I feel bad for them but grading is dead and it’s a total scam.

Eew, you like to raw dawg it? Sounds risky, dangerous, and filthy

Always wrap your assets in plastic. Never roll with your junk rawdawg style

[Wiseguy917]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Eew, you like to raw dawg it? Sounds risky, dangerous, and filthy

Always wrap your assets in plastic. Never roll with your junk rawdawg style

It feels soooo much better raw though.......the card I mean.......you can feel every bit of it. Can’t feel anything through that plastic......again, I mean the card.

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It has nothing to do with newbies or QC. It has everything to do with PSA being in cahoots with this trimmer. Every single sign points to that. The fact that there are now becoming almost COUNTLESS cards tied to this same guy, graded by PSA, means only one thing. If slabheads don’t want to see this reality then I feel bad for them but grading is dead and it’s a total scam.

Yeesh. Almost all of your posts are anti-grading. What is your agenda, or what would you like for us to do? Vow to never grade again?

You come off as someone who's never graded a card, hated the thought of grading from the get-go, and finally have a platform to spew criticisms about grading companies and people who grade. If that's the case, you have no skin in the game and should probably just stay out of it.

The "I told you so" routine is getting old.

[Wiseguy917]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Yeesh. Almost all of your posts are anti-grading. What is your agenda, or what would you like for us to do? Vow to never grade again?

You come off as someone who's never graded a card, hated the thought of grading from the get-go, and finally have a platform to spew criticisms about grading companies and people who grade. If that's the case, you have no skin in the game and should probably just stay out of it.

The "I told you so" routine is getting old.

You should go back some years and see exactly why and how long I’ve been calling grading a scam. I’ve been saying this for a looooong time, for different reasons, and now these new and upcoming reasons are the nail in the coffin. With that said, I’ve graded plenty of cards but hold onto very very few bc grading is a scam. I just make money off slabheads.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It feels soooo much better raw though.......the card I mean.......you can feel every bit of it. Can’t feel anything through that plastic......again, I mean the card.

I hear yah, yah just gotta find the one. If your collecting multiples, you gotta protect from the dirty. Plastic isn’t 100% effective, only abstinence is. But that’s no fun! Amirite?

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

You should go back some years and see exactly why and how long I’ve been calling grading a scam. I’ve been saying this for a looooong time, for different reasons, and now these new and upcoming reasons are the nail in the coffin. With that said, I’ve graded plenty of cards but hold onto very very few bc grading is a scam. I just make money of slabheads.

This is far from the end of grading. I'd wager that this will eventually grab media attention, PSA and PWCC will name names, some people will go to prison, and the sun will come up the next day.

It's certainly disappointing, but the actions of few individuals does not constitute the entire process a sham.

It's also a little hypocritical to call something a "scam", yet profit from it.

[Bassplayah101]

Everything this guy touches gets the treatment.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[JrFinest]

Rant : Back in my day we trimmed cards with scissors ,and had to pawn them off at shows as high grade. We checked every card at card shows with a ruler! Damn those graders and their thick plastic protectors for attempting to step in. Long live cardboard in it's purest raw form

lol j/k

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy917

It has nothing to do with newbies or QC. It has everything to do with PSA being in cahoots with this trimmer. Every single sign points to that. The fact that there are now becoming almost COUNTLESS cards tied to this same guy, graded by PSA, means only one thing. If slabheads don’t want to see this reality then I feel bad for them but grading is dead and it’s a total scam.

PSA doesn’t need Moser, or any other trimmer to assign cards a particular grade.

PSA can’t detect alterations anymore, and apparently hasn’t been able to for some time now.

[ThoseBackPages]

one day closer to that 52T Mantle!

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

This is far from the end of grading. I'd wager that this will eventually grab media attention, PSA and PWCC will name names, some people will go to prison, and the sun will come up the next day.



It's certainly disappointing, but the actions of few individuals does not constitute the entire process a sham.



It's also a little hypocritical to call something a "scam", yet profit from it.

By “sham”, people really mean the value assigned to graded cards by some people. Following this logic, the more people pay for the slab label and not the card, the more of a sham it becomes.

Everyone already knows grading has always been imperfect and subjective, but it’s much more imperfect now because graders can’t detect altered cards.

Grading will be exposed as a complete sham if alterations remain undetected AND people continue to pay stupid high prices for highly graded cards.

On a different note, I’d be curious to know what would happen if this Moser guy sells a DVD or releases a YouTube video on how to alter cards.

[cking]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Yeesh. Almost all of your posts are anti-grading. What is your agenda, or what would you like for us to do? Vow to never grade again?

You come off as someone who's never graded a card, hated the thought of grading from the get-go, and finally have a platform to spew criticisms about grading companies and people who grade. If that's the case, you have no skin in the game and should probably just stay out of it.

The "I told you so" routine is getting old.

Why should he stay out of it? Because you say so.

Say what you want but he was right. He was right then and he is right now.

There is no disputing that.

I sense alot of buttsore from certin people on this forum. Especially the folks who grade.

A few people on this forum have called BS on grading a long, long time ago. And guess what? They were right.

Dont be sore losers. Its not a good look.

[corndog]

William Bruton 1954 Bowman #224

This card now has that fresh rough cut edge.
Not a pricey card - probably a practice card.

Card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-6 from seller quality*cards for $35.99 on June 8, 2018. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...xmt-1931499090
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-7 for $67.23 on March 13, 2019. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1923731

Yellow circles are unique fiber identifiers.
Red area shows pre and post trim border.

[HarryLime]

Corndog, the '54 Bowman Mays 7.5 sold for $1,085. Let me know if you need any other VCP info. Happy to help in any way.

Arthur

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by cking

Why should he stay out of it? Because you say so.

Say what you want but he was right. He was right then and he is right now.

There is no disputing that.

I sense alot of buttsore from certin people on this forum. Especially the folks who grade.

A few people on this forum have called BS on grading a long, long time ago. And guess what? They were right.

Dont be sore losers. Its not a good look.

You want it to be true so bad. Anyone that doesn't renounce grading is obviously "protecting their investment." I've seen you lob that BS at multiple people now, including me. You must be young or relatively new to the hobby. There have been worse scandals than this and the hobby (and grading) ended up fine. But you want it to be true so bad.

We've seen a handful of doctors messing with 0.000008% of PSA cards and people are ready to call the whole thing a wash. It will never happen. Because for every one scandal, there are hundreds of thousands of cards that are correctly graded providing collectors with a valuable service that beats the hell out of the days when everything was raw.

This isn't me protecting my investment. You know I don't have an investment. This is called taking a mature perspective and seeing everything that's really happening and not just what I want to happen. There are going to be some heads that roll and this will get worse before it gets better but at the end of the day the hobby is going to come out the other side better for it.

And that includes grading. But you want it to be true so bad.

Arthur

[Fudd]

PWCC has been working with Edward Scissorhands and many others just like him for many YEARS. This HAS BEEN an epidemic, IMHO.

I can't thank you guys enough for finding a way to bring the PWCC scam to light. Please don't stop scrutinizing his never ending inventory.

PSA is really no better than GAI, and I hope all those stupid plastic containers are tainted, just like GAI in the near future. Brent just filled a need for bigger numskulls than himself. If that is possible. He and his Card Doctor buddies are very slimy individuals and PSA is very incompetent, All those guys do is spin cards in and out PSA holders, doctoring them, I mean Conserving them along the way.

Anyone buying from PWCC would need their heads examined at this point.
It is very apparent Brent Mastro and Moser the Hoser should be in JAIL.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

You want it to be true so bad. Anyone that doesn't renounce grading is obviously "protecting their investment." I've seen you lob that BS at multiple people now, including me. You must be young or relatively new to the hobby. There have been worse scandals than this and the hobby (and grading) ended up fine. But you want it to be true so bad.



We've seen a handful of doctors messing with 0.000008% of PSA cards and people are ready to call the whole thing a wash. It will never happen. Because for every one scandal, there are hundreds of thousands of cards that are correctly graded providing collectors with a valuable service that beats the hell out of the days when everything was raw.



This isn't me protecting my investment. You know I don't have an investment. This is called taking a mature perspective and seeing everything that's really happening and not just what I want to happen. There are going to be some heads that roll and this will get worse before it gets better but at the end of the day the hobby is going to come out the other side better for it.



And that includes grading. But you want it to be true so bad.



Arthur

But there aren’t hundreds of thousands of correctly PSA cards for every one that has been exposed here. I believe PSA has only graded 32M cards...

I don’t think you’re seeing the entire picture. Or maybe you’re just not good at math

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by tconte

That second Mays is super skinny. How in the world did that get by PSA graders?

PWCC has been working with Edward Scissorhands and many others just like him for many YEARS. This HAS BEEN an epidemic, IMHO.

I can't thank you guys enough for finding a way to bring the PWCC scam to light. Please don't stop scrutinizing his never ending inventory. Very nice Mini Mays Bowman there. A fourth grader could catch that. What does that tell you?

PSA is really no better than GAI, and I hope all those stupid plastic containers are tainted, just like GAI in the near future. Brent just filled a need for bigger numskulls than himself. If that is possible. He and his Card Doctor buddies are very slimy individuals and PSA is very incompetent, All those guys do is spin cards in and out PSA holders, doctoring them, I mean Conserving them along the way.

Anyone buying from PWCC would need their heads examined at this point.
It is very apparent that Brent Mastro and Moser the Hoser should be in JAIL.