Former Mizzou Michael Sam comes out of the closet

[stryke3_mb]

[QUOTE=ekalbnz;6706852]How can someone find something they never knew about in the first place though? How would he know God was revealing himself? That's what I don't understand. [QUOTE]

They may never know it's God until they die. What they might figure out is that some higher power created them. They see trees and plants. They see the sun and the sky. They figure out on their own God's creation.

God also reveals the basics of what's right and wrong to them in the way they interact with others. If they live a good life...if they are good people and do the right things, then they've lived a good life and will be judged on that.

Once they hear about Jesus, then they have a choice to make. Do they accept Him or do they deny Him?

[lukeouh]

If you actually try not to twist the Bible up, homosexuality is a sin. In Leviticus it says a man shall not lay with another man as he do a female. He also destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this reason. Jesus also said Marraige is between one male and one female. I understand there are denominations that accept homosexuality but it is wrong. As for Gay Christians, I am not sure if they will get into heaven. Also, science does prove the bible, but that is off topic

[stryke3_mb]

Originally Posted by lukeouh

If you actually try not to twist the Bible up, homosexuality is a sin. In Leviticus it says a man shall not lay with another man as he do a female. He also destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this reason. Jesus also said Marraige is between one male and one female. I understand there are denominations that accept homosexuality but it is wrong. As for Gay Christians, I am not sure if they will get into heaven. Also, science does prove the bible, but that is off topic

This whole thread went off topic way way back, quite a few pages ago. lol

[codered]

Originally Posted by lukeouh

If you actually try not to twist the Bible up, homosexuality is a sin. In Leviticus it says a man shall not lay with another man as he do a female. He also destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this reason. Jesus also said Marraige is between one male and one female. I understand there are denominations that accept homosexuality but it is wrong. As for Gay Christians, I am not sure if they will get into heaven. Also, science does prove the bible, but that is off topic

In many parts if the bible, including Leviticus, it talks about giving worship to created idols (one could easily argue sports figures) and worshiping graven images (*cough* sports cards *cough*). It's not hard at all to argue that collecting sports cards is a sin according to the bible.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Wait, what? You're telling me Christians do not try to battle against or prevent same sex marriage? If not Christians who are the ones protesting against same sex marriage?

Many people VOTE as well as protest. I am not sure who they are. Politicians have much to say on this as well. Look outside of the United States and see how people around the world view Homosexuality. It is not just Christians my friend.

[stryke3_mb]

Originally Posted by codered

In many parts if the bible, including Leviticus, it talks about giving worship to created idols (one could easily argue sports figures) and worshiping graven images (*cough* sports cards *cough*). It's not hard at all to argue that collecting sports cards is a sin according to the bible.

It definitely can be if it becomes your god.

[codered]

Originally Posted by stryke3_mb

It definitely can be if it becomes your god.

If I'm not mistaken god doesn't ask you to worship him above all but to worship him only?

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

You asked for it so I am providing an answer to your question.

This is from the Hebrew Bible. Is that the Bible that you follow? This is the view of Orthodox Judaism. "On the other hand, Reconstructionist Judaism and Reform Judaism do not hold this view and allow homosexual intercourse." Do you live your life by divine law of 2,000+ years ago? Be real, and let's be honest about views. Religions, Christianity, Bibles,.........all have adapted through time, change with interpretations and also change with practice of passages. Is it just a coincidence that some choose this portion of a Bible, though it is not even a Bible that they pay much attention to at other junctions?

[lukeouh]

Yes, I think it "could become a sin". I use could very lightly. Like say all I did was sit in front of my laptop and sleep(buying sports cards and ordering wax), than yes, unless it's your job but if you're doing nothing productive, then maybe.

[lukeouh]

Originally Posted by WCTYSON

This is from the Hebrew Bible. Is that the Bible that you follow? This is the view of Orthodox Judaism. "On the other hand, Reconstructionist Judaism and Reform Judaism do not hold this view and allow homosexual intercourse." Do you live your life by divine law of 2,000+ years ago? Be real, and let's be honest about views. Religions, Christianity, Bibles,.........all have adapted through time, change with interpretations and also change with practice of passages. Is it just a coincidence that some choose this portion of a Bible, though it is not even a Bible that they pay much attention to at other junctions?

Haha yes they do. That's why I take the bible literally. If you look back there are churched that tried to make the bible mesh with modern day theories that are now rejected. The reason they do that is because they are trying to please everybody and maybe one day some churches will take murder out of their doctrine. It's the same principal.

[stryke3_mb]

Originally Posted by codered

If I'm not mistaken god doesn't ask you to worship him above all but to worship him only?

He says to worship Him only, yes.

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Christians cannot and do not try to stop them. To us it is a sin. Simple as that. No sense in fighting about this as nobody is going to change the mind of the other. Godless believe it is fine, and Christians do not. Its as simple as that.

Originally Posted by WCTYSON

"Other Christian denominations do not view monogamous same-sex relationships as sinful or immoral, and may bless such unions and consider them marriages. These include the United Church of Canada, and the United Church of Christ.,[24] all German Lutheran, reformed and united churches in EKD,[25] all Swiss reformed churches, the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, the Church of Denmark, the Church of Sweden, the Church of Iceland and the Church of Norway. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland also allows prayer for same-sex couples.[26] In particular, the Metropolitan Community Church was founded specifically to serve the Christian LGBT community. The Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals (GAAAP), traces its roots back to 1980, making it the oldest LGBT-affirming Apostolic Pentecostal denomination in existence.[27] Another such organization is the Affirming Pentecostal Church International, currently the largest affirming Pentecostal organization, with churches in the US, UK, Central and South America, Europe and Africa."

Seems you are being mislead, as the Kingdom is open for these Christians as well.

It is not as simple as that. Are these Christians 'Godless'? Regardless of your beliefs it has also been addressed numerous times that your view is not even the only Christian view. Believe what you believe and leave it to the others to decide on what to believe. Nobody benefits from one part, of one religion determining how society as a whole should be governed.

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by lukeouh

Haha yes they do. That's why I take the bible literally. If you look back there are churched that tried to make the bible mesh with modern day theories that are now rejected. The reason they do that is because they are trying to please everybody and maybe one day some churches will take murder out of their doctrine. It's the same principal.

You take the Hebrew Bible literally?

[lukeouh]

Originally Posted by WCTYSON

You take the Hebrew Bible literally?

NIV and King James. I honestly weighed the evidence and it pointed towards Christianity. I think if you believe Christianity you better take all of it, if you take stuff out like homosexuality, then I guess its ok to take out Murder, stealing, etc. See my point?

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by lukeouh

NIV and King James. I honestly weighed the evidence and it pointed towards Christianity. I think if you believe Christianity you better take all of it, if you take stuff out like homosexuality, then I guess its ok to take out Murder, stealing, etc. See my point?

No, I will never see your point. You are using passages from the Hebrew Bible, which you do not abide by, then adapting some views for one division of Christianity and then ignoring all the other divisions of Christianity that you do not agree with. Again, believe what you want to believe and we all will face judgement one day. As a citizen of this country, this discussion magnifies the need to keep church and state separate. Live and let live, with liberty and justice for all.

[aliceinpains]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Many people VOTE as well as protest. I am not sure who they are. Politicians have much to say on this as well. Look outside of the United States and see how people around the world view Homosexuality. It is not just Christians my friend.

True. In some muslim countries you could be punished by death for just being gay.

[WCTYSON]

Originally Posted by aliceinpains

True. In some muslim countries you could be punished by death for just being gay.

Yes, religious fundamentalism is destructive all over the world. We must stand against it, and stand for liberty and justice for all. This is a statement that holds true against Christian fundamentalism as well.

Christian threats force Muslim convoy to turn back in CAR exodus | World news | theguardian.com

[petesahuttt]

Well, I am may be the first here to come out but I am gay, I collect cards and I was also brought up Catholic and went to Catholic school from 1st grade to 7th grade and went to a Catholic High School. I am completely done with religion. Catholicism teaches love and compassion and caring for others except those that they deem outside of their teachings much to the detriment of homosexuals. Just look at how much pressure they put on adoption issues to gay couples. I will not step foot in a church again and have missed a few family members weddings that have taken place in a religious setting.
In my opinion, there is no higher being that created us, we are a result of biological evolution and nothing more, believing otherwise is just delusion and a way to romanticize how we came to be. That will be my only contribution.
Pete

[1eyed_jack]

Religion is such a strange and polarizing things. Someone can suffer something awful like the death of their child and turn to and find solace in god, while someone else who loses a child will see that as proof god does not exist.

I'm not religious, but I can't say for certain what forces are at work.

However, at the end of the day, I believe in the words of Kurt Vonnegut moreso than anything I've ever read or heard from the bible.

“A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved.”

I don't know if I'm going to heaven if I die, just as I don't know if I'm going to hell. I don't know if I will be reincarnated and live a completely new life. I don't know if when I die I don't simply just cease to exist.

What I do know is that while I am alive and here on this fine earth, I will be damned if I'm going to waste it by holding hatred or judgement towards others that are just trying to find happiness in a way that is not affecting anyone else. Happiness is hard enough to come by these days, that if two individuals, man and woman, man and man or woman and woman, can find it together, that is something I will ALWAYS celebrate as it is worth celebrating.

To frown upon that is nothing but petty and pathetic and hateful. I could never live my life by a set of morals and ethics that find that unacceptable. I'd rather risk spending eternity in hell, then create it on earth with those narrow minded ideals.

[NJNets24]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Religion is such a strange and polarizing things. Someone can suffer something awful like the death of their child and turn to and find solace in god, while someone else who loses a child will see that as proof god does not exist.

I'm not religious, but I can't say for certain what forces are at work.

However, at the end of the day, I believe in the words of Kurt Vonnegut moreso than anything I've ever read or heard from the bible.

“A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved.”

I don't know if I'm going to heaven if I die, just as I don't know if I'm going to hell. I don't know if I will be reincarnated and live a completely new life. I don't know if when I die I don't simply just cease to exist.

What I do know is that while I am alive and here on this fine earth, I will be damned if I'm going to waste it by holding hatred or judgement towards others that are just trying to find happiness in a way that is not affecting anyone else. Happiness is hard enough to come by these days, that if two individuals, man and woman, man and man or woman and woman, can find it together, that is something I will ALWAYS celebrate as it is worth celebrating.

To frown upon that is nothing but petty and pathetic and hateful. I could never live my life by a set of morals and ethics that find that unacceptable. I'd rather risk spending eternity in hell, then create it on earth with those narrow minded ideals.

Very good point. I don't think anyone has a problem with people practicing their religion. What I do have a problem with is someone forcing their beliefs on someone else which directly affects said person's life. You can go to sleep at night married to the person you love, while a lot of gay couples can't do the same. Literally if all gay couples that wanted to get married got married, you're life would be no different and it would have ZERO affect on your life. That's what everyone has a problem with.

[cyberpvnk]

Originally Posted by petesahuttt

Well, I am may be the first here to come out but I am gay, I collect cards and I was also brought up Catholic and went to Catholic school from 1st grade to 7th grade and went to a Catholic High School. I am completely done with religion. Catholicism teaches love and compassion and caring for others except those that they deem outside of their teachings much to the detriment of homosexuals. Just look at how much pressure they put on adoption issues to gay couples. I will not step foot in a church again and have missed a few family members weddings that have taken place in a religious setting.
In my opinion, there is no higher being that created us, we are a result of biological evolution and nothing more, believing otherwise is just delusion and a way to romanticize how we came to be. That will be my only contribution.
Pete

Thank you for your courage.

I hope it's encouraging to see all the people on this board who clearly accept all people

[cyberpvnk]

Sorry, double post

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Certain people are telling others they will go to hell if they don't follow the correct teachings and somehow I'M the rude one.

Originally Posted by Davesportscards

Read his posts about his Bible being the ONLY Bible...Period. Anyone who follows a different teaching will not enter heaven. It's not up to him to say who will or wont to go to heaven or hell.

You seem to be confused about my status. I'm an Agnostic Atheist. That means I do not believe in a God, I believe the existence of a higher power is unknowable. Hence, Agnostic Atheist. I do not believe in a Heaven or Hell. My problem is with someone who claims to be a Christian thinks he has the power to say who will and will not enter Heaven.

No one in this thread has the authority to damn some one to hell. Only God can do that. There are many different variations of the Christian bible. There are differences in what each denomination believes. The one thing that does not change is the fact the bible says you have to believe to go to heaven.

In no way have any of us "judged" someone by stating that. That's not our place to do. We are all sinners. Lord knows I'm not a great example of a good Christian. I have my issues just like everyone else, Christian or not. None of us are better than anyone else. It's just a difference in beliefs.

I haven't seen any one act "holier than thou" in this thread (may have missed a couple posts). Questions are being asked, and questions are being answered according to beliefs.

[SpastikMooss]

Originally Posted by lukeouh

NIV and King James. I honestly weighed the evidence and it pointed towards Christianity. I think if you believe Christianity you better take all of it, if you take stuff out like homosexuality, then I guess its ok to take out Murder, stealing, etc. See my point?

Edit: These are all Old Testament references, so for those who don't follow the Old Testament, you're good. But don't you be quoting Leviticus as your go to anti-homosexuality verse if you don't follow the Old Testament either...lol.

Serious question for responses like this...are you aware that rape is condoned in the Bible in many instances? In the Old Testament especially, where if people harmed Israelites it was bad but if Israelites did it it was...less bad because if you raped the opposing tribe you'd be able to increase your population and strengthen your numbers/tribe. So if you're going to take everything...you have to take that the Bible condones rape in some cases as well.

One example is Judges 10-24 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...24&version=NIV

Also Deuteronomy 20:10-14 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=NIV

And Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is problematic as well, horrifying by today's standards - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...29&version=NLT

The Bible also permits murder at times. I know 10 Commandments say thou shall not kill, but there are cases throughout the Bible where God okays it depending on the circumstances:
Fortunetellers are to be stoned to death according to Leviticus 20:27
Whoever strikes Mom or Dad will be put to death according to Exodus 21:15
Cursing at your Mom or Dad will get you death according to Proverbs 20:20 and Leviticus 20:9
Adultery...both put to death, the guy and the girl according to Leviticus 20:10
Kill nonbelievers according to 2 Chronicles 15:12

The Bible also says you can take slaves. Leviticus 25:44 covers purchase, Exocudes 21:2 covers the treatment, Exodus 21:7 contains references to sex slavery, and Exodus 21:20 is one of the weirdest - if you beat your slave to death you're punished, but if the slave survives for a day or two and then dies then you won't be punished because he's your property.

I don't believe you're pro rape, pro killing fortunetellers, and I'm sure like many you think the idea of killing the non-believers is a bit archair and insane. Yet all of that is in the Bible...I gave you the verses. And you don't follow those rules as strictly as the ones that are okay in modern society, do you?

[indyguy]

59 pages...I'm impressed.

Can we go ahead and delete it now?