$22.5k of Trimmed Harper 2012 Topps Heritage High Autos Sold via PWCC and Probstein

[vwnut13]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

One of my favorite all time movies is The Big Short. No matter what type of corruption/fraud is taking place, it's always follows a similar model. I see a lot of parallels between these situation and what happens in the movie (bascially, what happened in real life). I'll leave names out of this since we all know who is who.

Which part does ThoseBackPages play?

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by vwnut13

Which part does ThoseBackPages play?

[gradedeflator]

I find these threads so interesting.

if PSA is "accused" of being involved in nefarious activity, it seems like most folks stick up for them. and then quickly go on the offensive and attack BGS.

this whole thread started with specific PSA cards in question. Let's just focus on those cards. It gets weird when people then attack BGS, and individual people in the Dallas area. I get that people have had bad experiences with others but these types of threads can quickly turn into trolling efforts.

OP did a good job pointing out questionable PSA grades. I'm sure there are similar cards in BGS slabs. We'll get there eventually. but I for one could certainly do with less of th e "PSA is innocent but BGS is a conspirator" sentiment.

All card companies have their good and bad.

[whitesoxfan3579]

There is no such thing as a perfect card. For some time Beckett seemed to get this with their 9.5 rating. And when very large sums of money are involved and people are more than willing to pay stupid prices there will always be some level of fraud lurking around. In this case I think the grading company that assigned the grade is ultimately responsible. Will things change? I doubt it.

[waytoomanycards]

If these sellers are responsible for a lot of the gems for some of these high-end cards, seems likely that they've been bidding on a significant number of the raw cards.

Assuming they stop at some point, it will be interesting how their inactivity affects raw card prices for those cards.

I don't see the graded card market crashing, but, if it did, I doubt the higher-end slab investors would stick around. Too much work returning the occasional damaged card and unloading ungraded cards. Even consignors charged significantly more to unload raw.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

[SirTommyWinAlot]

Yup and i'm sure the people behind this present themselves as great neighbors, coworkers and friends. They just compartmentalize their fraudster way of life with everything else.

Buy low numbered rookies, /10,/25,/50 because even if every card is a PSA 10 it's still has a low production volume. Even with that bryce harper heritage, not many produced so while it sucks that it's trimmed, not many are floating out there. Now base cards on the other hand....

[pryantexas]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

I am the current owner of this card. I bought it from PWCC via ebay on 8/30/18



I have reached out to Betsy and am very confident that they will take back the card and issue me a full credit.



If they don't, I will be pursuing legal action



(FYI I'm traveling and will be away from this thread for a bit but will update when I hear back from PWCC)

Because PWCC replied so quickly and professionally I wanted to go out of my way to update

They are taking the card back and are guaranteeing full reimbursement... they will be working with PSA to take the card out of circulation and I’m assuming get it slabbed as “altered”


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[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Because PWCC replied so quickly and professionally I wanted to go out of my way to update

They are taking the card back and are guaranteeing full reimbursement... they will be working with PSA to take the card out of circulation and I’m assuming get it slabbed as “altered”


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Great news! And very happy for your outcome.

I’m hoping as they are taking this course of action and are most likely aware of the magnitude of the problem now that two things will be occurring:

1) research and legal action against the trimmers
2) improved protocols for grading.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Because PWCC replied so quickly and professionally I wanted to go out of my way to update

They are taking the card back and are guaranteeing full reimbursement... they will be working with PSA to take the card out of circulation and I’m assuming get it slabbed as “altered”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great!

[SirTommyWinAlot]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Because PWCC replied so quickly and professionally I wanted to go out of my way to update

They are taking the card back and are guaranteeing full reimbursement... they will be working with PSA to take the card out of circulation and I’m assuming get it slabbed as “altered”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's great news man. They're going to have to work together to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem so that's good that they are going to get this particular card fixed. Still lots of work to go.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

One of my favorite all time movies is The Big Short. No matter what type of corruption/fraud is taking place, it's always follows a similar model. I see a lot of parallels between these situation and what happens in the movie (bascially, what happened in real life)... "

Great movie, I enjoyed it very much and also felt exasperated at the situation the good guys were in.

Good analogy, but since the stock market has real controls in place, there is meaningful recourse there...even if that only happens eventually. Unfortunately, the graded card market does not have any real controls in place and will likely maintain its status quo. Too many people like it exactly the way it is, and many will resist any change that will lighten their wallet.

I fear a few people on a message board aren’t likely to change anything; and even if there were a change, things will revert back to the status quo ante after a short while, because of greedy actors. The only real way to reject what’s going on is to reject paying a premium for graded cards.

[SaltyCracker]

Originally Posted by vwnut13

Which part does ThoseBackPages play?

He seems to buy a lot of PSA 9s. Just sayin

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by SirTommyWinAlot

Yup and i'm sure the people behind this present themselves as great neighbors, coworkers and friends. They just compartmentalize their fraudster way of life with everything else.

Buy low numbered rookies, /10,/25,/50 because even if every card is a PSA 10 it's still has a low production volume. Even with that bryce harper heritage, not many produced so while it sucks that it's trimmed, not many are floating out there. Now base cards on the other hand....

Still a bad and fraudulent situation that makes the hobby look like it’s full of criminals.

I’m not interested in cards used to perpetuate fraud.

[dmanrico]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Great movie, I enjoyed it very much and also felt exasperated at the situation the good guys were in.

Good analogy, but since the stock market has real controls in place, there is meaningful recourse there...even if that only happens eventually. Unfortunately, the graded card market does not have any real controls in place and will likely maintain its status quo. Too many people like it exactly the way it is, and many will resist any change that will lighten their wallet.

I fear a few people on a message board aren’t likely to change anything; and even if there were a change, things will revert back to the status quo ante after a short while, because of greedy actors. The only real way to reject what’s going on is to reject paying a premium for graded cards.

I think with PWCC taking back cards and refunding you’re going to see change now as this is directly impacting them financially. Have hope now!

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Because PWCC replied so quickly and professionally I wanted to go out of my way to update

They are taking the card back and are guaranteeing full reimbursement... they will be working with PSA to take the card out of circulation and I’m assuming get it slabbed as “altered”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excellent. This is why PWCC is so important. They have the power to make a difference. I hope they do so.

[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by dmanrico

I think with PWCC taking back cards and refunding you’re going to see change now as this is directly impacting them financially. Have hope now!

I would still like to see them name and shame these fraudsters.
I do not believe that they are under legal obligation to keep sellers identities anonymous.
If I am incorrect please provide a legal source and I will retract.

Until these individuals are pulled out from the shadows, this problem may continue. If they are identified, I believe their ability to continue will be severally impacted to the point of being put out of business.


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[TonySpaghetti]

A.I. computer grading is needed asap.

If you have access to the knowledge, technology, and start-up capital you could make a lot of money by introducing this to the modern cards market.

Less errors
Higher consistency
Faster turn-around times
Cheaper prices
Lower potential for corruption

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Bassplayah101

I would still like to see them name and shame these fraudsters.
I do not believe that they are under legal obligation to keep sellers identities anonymous.
If I am incorrect please provide a legal source and I will retract.

Until these individuals are pulled out from the shadows, this problem may continue. If they are identified, I believe their ability to continue will be severally impacted to the point of being put out of business.


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We know who they all are. Them disclosing the names is simply a formality. I think it would be more beneficial to provide a list of cards submitted by known trimmers. Hell, they can just give the item numbers, and I'll be happy to make a list.

[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

We know who they all are. Them disclosing the names is simply a formality. I think it would be more beneficial to provide a list of cards submitted by known trimmers. Hell, they can just give the item numbers, and I'll be happy to make a list.

I was reading the thread backwards.
I didnt see that SaveMeTheGum made a thread and got it stickied in the seller feedback section.

Kudos!

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[ThoseBackPages]

computers handling raw cards?

[pewe]

Originally Posted by TonySpaghetti

A.I. computer grading is needed asap.

If you have access to the knowledge, technology, and start-up capital you could make a lot of money by introducing this to the modern cards market.

Less errors
Higher consistency
Faster turn-around times
Cheaper prices
Lower potential for corruption

Check our other thread on this... I laid the whole biz model out and can give people the tech to use

I want to see this

Not sure how “huge” unless it picked up other collectibles, but at minimum could be a nice biz for someone with passion


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[superdan49]

Originally Posted by Bassplayah101

I was reading the thread backwards.
I didnt see that SaveMeTheGum made a thread and got it stickied in the seller feedback section.

Kudos!

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The Members Feedback section has emerged as the go-to hub for info on trimmers. That sticky thread really drives the point home: Houston (or Dallas!), we have a problem!

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

I’d date TBP!!

[kyle1707]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The Members Feedback section has emerged as the go-to hub for info on trimmers. That sticky thread really drives the point home: Houston (or Dallas!), we have a problem!

I have bought 3-4000 from pwcc

All Harper trout heritage psa 10 stuff

Weeeeee