Topps out---Fanatics in

[Cardboard Dawg]

Originally Posted by JRX

Well its staying private now so no point.

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True. Makes sense they would be quick to take it all down. I imagine they’ve got those financial statements floating around out there.

Fanatics is trying to become like Amazon with sports and not sure if I like it

[Tallguy1991]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Let's never ever pretend Rob Manfred has a decent bone in his body.

I started writing a change . org petition titled “Tell Rob Manfred + MLBPA: Blindsiding Topps After 70 Years Also Betrays Baseball Fans.” If I post it, is there anyone who’d take a second to sign it? Not sure it’s gonna fix this situation, but for those of us unhappy with the idea of relegating topps to memory status in favor of fanatics only baseball cards I’m pretty sure that registering our disapproval that way is the only real weapon we have. If enough of their potential customer base makes it clear that sneakily backstabbing topps and yanking the licenses isn’t ok with us who knows, maybe it causes someone to rethink whatever led them to knife topps out of the blue


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[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Seriously? Topps has become stale?

In the last five years, they've come up with Throwback Thursday, Topps Living, Project 2020, Topps Now, 582 Montgomery Club, On-Demand, Project 70, and Turn Back the Clock.

And the "virtual collectable that you can redeem for a physical collectable" was done 10+ years ago....that's what Topps Bunt was.

You mean eTopps. Bunt is all digital.

[salthill]

Originally Posted by 3XDAD

Well, you could sign an exclusive deal with FIFA or EUFA and then it covers pretty much everything.


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That’s not at all how soccer licensing works.

[Jumpin Astros]

https://twitter.com/joefav/status/1428823837915897858

The fact the MLB and MLBPA agreement with Fanatics came right before the Topps merger could spell trouble for Fanatics, the MLB and MLBPA and any other parties involved. If Topps is going to "lawyer up" as Joe Favorito just mentioned, it will be interesting to see how the timing comes into play in the event a judge allows Topps to proceed with a lawsuit against Fanatics or MLB or MLBPA, etc on any particular grounds. The discovery phase could shed light on emails and communications between Fanatics execs and others.

[FT35]

I think they will find a way to retain the Topps name. Baseball cards are as much “Topps” as they are “baseball.” Topps is the baseball CARD. It’s also a record of the collector’s/baseball fan’s story. Taking that away would be like someone purchasing the rights to the Star Wars movie series then they start making “Star Wars” movies with a completely different plot/history and totally different characters. That’s not Star Wars, and no one would buy it as they would the ACTUAL “Star Wars.”

Obviously it’s all about the money…but in this case—with that being true—there’s a LOT more money to be made by keeping the “Topps” name/logo in the game and on the cards IMO.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Jumpin Astros

https://twitter.com/joefav/status/1428823837915897858

The fact the MLB and MLBPA agreement with Fanatics came right before the Topps merger could spell trouble for Fanatics, the MLB and MLBPA and any other parties involved. If Topps is going to "lawyer up" as Joe Favorito just mentioned, it will be interesting to see how the timing comes into play in the event a judge allows Topps to proceed with a lawsuit against Fanatics or MLB or MLBPA, etc on any particular grounds. The discovery phase could shed light on emails and communications between Fanatics execs and others.

Burn it all down. I know topps isnt an angel in this, but I absolutely hate what Manfred is doing to this sport.

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[ottobord]

Originally Posted by FT35

I think they will find a way to retain the Topps name. Baseball cards are as much “Topps” as they are “baseball.” Topps is the baseball CARD. It’s also a record of the collector’s/baseball fan’s story. Taking that away would be like someone purchasing the rights to the Star Wars movie series then they start making “Star Wars” movies with a completely different plot/history and totally different characters. That’s not Star Wars, and no one would buy it as they would the ACTUAL “Star Wars.”

Obviously it’s all about the money…but in this case—with that being true—there’s a LOT more money to be made by keeping the “Topps” name/logo in the game and on the cards IMO.

You do know that Star Wars was sold to Disney and they destroyed the franchise. Better yet let's not start that one.

[Kracer52]

I've seen a lot of people say that they would be fine if they bought the Topps name/product lines/brands and kept producing them under Fanatics new venture. I think I would disagree with this even though I don't particularly love Topps the company. Fanatics is going to own full exclusives of 3 of the Big 4 sports and have essentially a full monopoly on American sports cards. I have zero interest in supporting that regardless of which names they end up using on their product lines. I don't love Topps or Panini, or UD, but I don't want to support a business that knee capped several others at the expense of pretty much everyone.

On a tangential point, I really don't think they want to do that anyway. It sounds like they want to do this on their own and have nothing to do with "legacy" brands and products. What would it matter to them anyway if there is exactly zero competition possible in baseball, basketball, and football.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by JRX

Maybe Manfred looks at the demographics trends and realize there is no long term future for the sport so they're trying to cash in as much as possible while they can.

MLB’s North American youth demographic numbers and trends look as good as or better than other pro sports, outside eSports (that are destroying everyone else)


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[Jumpin Astros]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I just read an article (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/20/b...cards-ipo.html) which detailed how Fanatics acquired Majestic and used their infrastructure to produce MLB jerseys after Majestic had lost the MLB license. The article suggested that Fanatics was looking to do the same with one of the major card companies. So that would make a lot of sense if they did something similar.

Here is an article about Fanatics acquiring Majestic a few years ago:
https://www.retaildive.com/news/fana...g%20in%202020.

History could be repeating itself very soon. Go back a few years to the time of the Majestic acquisition. Fanatics get the MLB license, then acquires a struggling jersey manufacturing company (which just lost their MLB license to produce jerseys). Fanatics saw an opportunity to capitalize on the struggling Majestic company and turn it into a huge profit by partnering with Under Armor. Think of this as the training ground for future acquisitions.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by rms13

As much as I love Topps and they will always be THE card company to me, it does seem like they got complacent over the years. I heard Bill Simmons talk about when he was on the board of directors at Topps when they lost the NBA contract and they didn't think it was worth the money to keep it. It sounds like they didn't get the chance to keep MLB but they probably wouldn't have wanted to or been able to match Fanatics offer

Bill simmons is a pud. Topps and UD were outbid big time by panini, who acquired a GLOBAL license.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Kracer52

I've seen a lot of people say that they would be fine if they bought the Topps name/product lines/brands and kept producing them under Fanatics new venture. I think I would disagree with this even though I don't particularly love Topps the company. Fanatics is going to own full exclusives of 3 of the Big 4 sports and have essentially a full monopoly on American sports cards. I have zero interest in supporting that regardless of which names they end up using on their product lines. I don't love Topps or Panini, or UD, but I don't want to support a business that knee capped several others at the expense of pretty much everyone.

On a tangential point, I really don't think they want to do that anyway. It sounds like they want to do this on their own and have nothing to do with "legacy" brands and products. What would it matter to them anyway if there is exactly zero competition possible in baseball, basketball, and football.

Somewhat along those lines, I refuse to buy an mlb jersey with a Nike swoosh on it. If it means I never own one, so be it. I'm not going to just play along with "you have no choice, you have to buy this its all you're going to get"

[salthill]

Originally Posted by ottobord

You do know that Star Wars was sold to Disney and they destroyed the franchise. Better yet let's not start that one.

Oh shush, Jar Jar. Go read up on some trade negotiations.

[base set]

Y’all are all cool peeps. But this thread is useless.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by k13

Those don't matter.
What were total sales/revenue for 2020 for Topps/UD/Panini in all the sports?

I doubt Baseball is the highest one.

Topps = $311mm physical trading card revenue
Upper Deck = $80mm total revenue (D&B estimate)
Panini = ??? I didn’t find anything easily


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[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by pewe

Topps = $311mm physical trading card revenue
Upper Deck = $80mm total revenue (D&B estimate)
Panini = ??? I didn’t find anything easily


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Ive heard that Panini America is around $50MM, but I know Panini Group does around $1B in revenue. Their sticker business alone is massive. Ill see if I can find the article again.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Kracer52

Ive heard that Panini America is around $50MM, but I know Panini Group does around $1B in revenue. Their sticker business alone is massive. Ill see if I can find the article again.

Yes - I saw something similar. Is “Panini America” essentially their MLB/NFL/NBA trading card products?

If so, I guess we got our answer

Baseball, in 2020 new product, was approximately 2x the size of all other sports products put together


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[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by pewe

Yes - I saw something similar. Is “Paninj America” essentially their MLB/NFL/NBA trading card products?

If so, I guess we got our answer

Baseball, in 2020 new product, was approximately 2x the size of all other sports products put together


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Yeah, I believe it somewhat operates as a separate company.

This may not be an effective analogy for some, but in racing its similar with Honda Racing (Japan), and Honda Performance Development (USA). They're both under Honda, but the HPD USA section is fairly autonomous. Honda Japan may step in under some circumstances, but as long as HPD is performing well, they let them do their own thing.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by base set

Y’all are all cool peeps. But this thread is useless.

What would make it useful???


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[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by ottobord

You do know that Star Wars was sold to Disney and they destroyed the franchise. Better yet let's not start that one.

News to me. I'm a big Star Wars fan and have been very happy with it. Episodes 7-9, Mandalorian, Rogue One, Obi-Wan Series coming up, new theme park at Disney. Absolutely love what Disney did with Star Wars!

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by salthill

Oh shush, Jar Jar. Go read up on some trade negotiations.

My lord, is that legal?’

[Jumpin Astros]

To add to the thought processing: If Fanatics wanted in the trading card business as the one NYT article suggested, Topps would be a good target to go after since Panini is a huge company AND can be a good partner to work with and since Upper Deck can't be controlled due to MJ (and is not as appealing as Topps). Could it be, Fanatics wanted to buy Topps last year (as it's been reported) but Eisner did not want to sell or Fanatics couldn't meet the asking price? Fanatics, seeing no other easy way into the trading card industry has it out with Eisner/Topps and is looking for other means to get into trading cards. As Fanatics experienced with Majestic, they consider hey, what if Topps loses the MLB license, then we can have leverage to take over Topps and have what we wanted a year ago. And without Topps having MLB, their company won't be worth near as much as it was a year ago. Then Fanatics encountered a problem, if Topps goes public, how would they get control of the company? Regardless if Topps has MLB or not, getting control of a public company would mean owning the majority share which could be a lot more work, take a lot longer and have much more money involved. However, if we can stop the merger from going public, it will only be a matter of time before Topps will accept a lowball offer and we can get into the trading card market as desired. Again, this is only my opinion/thoughts. The legal topic: Could Fanatics be in trouble, or this new company they are forming, if Fanatics was involved in foul play by causing Topps tenure with MLB and MLBPA to end as it did. Unless Panini is making agreements already with Fanatics to produce cards for them down the road via sub-licensing, it may be of interest to Panini if Fanatics acted unreasonably (outside normal business dealings as defined by FTC) to cause Topps' deal with MLB to end. This then opened the door for Fanatics to acquire Topps and then have the infrastructure to convince the other leagues/players associations to get rid of Panini as well which would then leave Fanatics the sole producer of MLB/NFL and NBA cards. If Topps is already lawyering up as Joe Favorito suggested on Twitter, all Topps/Eisner needs to do is have grounds to convince a judge to allow some kind of lawsuit to proceed against Fanatics so the discovery phase can start. The discovery phase will bring any evidence of foul play on Fanatics end or the league's end to the light (emails, phone calls, texts, etc). The fact that this agreement with Fanatics and MLB has been in discussions for months and was announced just prior to the Topps merger will be a red flag to point to for any prosecuting lawyer.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

News to me. I'm a big Star Wars fan and have been very happy with it. Episodes 7-9, Mandalorian, Rogue One, Obi-Wan Series coming up, new theme park at Disney. Absolutely love what Disney did with Star Wars!

I've got a bad feeling about this.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Jumpin Astros

To add to the thought processing: If Fanatics wanted in the trading card business as the one NYT article suggested, Topps would be a good target to go after since Panini is a huge company AND can be a good partner to work with and since Upper Deck can't be controlled due to MJ (and is not as appealing as Topps). Could it be, Fanatics wanted to buy Topps last year (as it's been reported) but Eisner did not want to sell or Fanatics couldn't meet the asking price? Fanatics, seeing no other easy way into the trading card industry has it out with Eisner/Topps and is looking for other means to get into trading cards. As Fanatics experienced with Majestic, they consider hey, what if Topps loses the MLB license, then we can have leverage to take over Topps and have what we wanted a year ago. And without Topps having MLB, their company won't be worth near as much as it was a year ago. Then Fanatics encountered a problem, if Topps goes public, how would they get control of the company? Regardless if Topps has MLB or not, getting control of a public company would mean owning the majority share which could be a lot more work, take a lot longer and have much more money involved. However, if we can stop the merger from going public, it will only be a matter of time before Topps will accept a lowball offer and we can get into the trading card market as desired. Again, this is only my opinion/thoughts. The legal topic: Could Fanatics be in trouble, or this new company they are forming, if Fanatics was involved in foul play by causing Topps tenure with MLB and MLBPA to end as it did. Unless Panini is making agreements already with Fanatics to produce cards for them down the road via sub-licensing, it may be of interest to Panini if Fanatics acted unreasonably (outside normal business dealings as defined by FTC) to cause Topps' deal with MLB to end. This then opened the door for Fanatics to acquire Topps and then have the infrastructure to convince the other leagues/players associations to get rid of Panini as well which would then leave Fanatics the sole producer of MLB/NFL and NBA cards. If Topps is already lawyering up as Joe Favorito suggested on Twitter, all Topps/Eisner needs to do is have grounds to convince a judge to allow some kind of lawsuit to proceed against Fanatics so the discovery phase can start. The discovery phase will bring any evidence of foul play on Fanatics end or the league's end to the light (emails, phone calls, texts, etc). The fact that this agreement with Fanatics and MLB has been in discussions for months and was announced just prior to the Topps merger will be a red flag to point to for any prosecuting lawyer.

Ok, but what's the end game, topps goes back to making cards for the mlb and pa who now hate them for suing them? There's no way we go back to what it was, its over, Manfred set it all on fire.