NBA Top Shot - High Risk, High Reward?

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

If this update from TS appeals to big spending collectors looking to hold significant value in moments (which by my initial observations on Twitter has been a well received update) it's likely good for the longevity of the platform.

As long as there's big money to be chased on the platform, TS will have no problems finding more new "collectors."

Well received on Twitter? All I see are people irritated or mad about it.

Imagine walking into a card store and wanting to buy a box of Prizm and the store owner says, "You haven't lost enough money to qualify so here's a box Hoops."

That's what this is like to me. I'm not saying open it up to everyone, but to "reward" people who lost a ton of money with a pack is a bit ridiculous.

And I think Top Shot is not only going to have issues finding new collectors in the future, they're having that issue now. So many folks in here alone own dozens of moments yet have a fraction of the collector score required for a pack like this. What Top Shot needs to stop doing is moving the goal posts each and every pack release.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Wait wait wait....

At first I read the spend bonus and thought it meant that all you had to do is have spent that amount. Meaning, if you bought $500 in moments and sold $1000 in moments because you managed this correctly and didn't get caught up in the FOMO like a fool, you'd get bonus points..

but no....

What it comes down to is that you need to be down that amount to see any bonus.

They are handing out 'Loser Points'

This right here. I have probably bought and sold a few thousand in moments but since my initial investment is $20, I have zero points since I currently do not own any moments. I'm not saying that I deserve a collector score, I don't, just that they should be crystal clear about what they are doing, and I feel like they aren't.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

I have to agree, they have packs right now for new collectors. They've released mid-range packs. Now they've got to cater to the big dawgs.

Roham could take a dump in a box, put it for sale, and you’d be raving at how innovative TS is

[hoopstaj]

1307 collector score for me, thought it would be higher. There’s no way I’d have spent more in the MP, this might be the end of TS for me personally. Was fun in the beginning.


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[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Well received on Twitter? All I see are people irritated or mad about it.

Imagine walking into a card store and wanting to buy a box of Prizm and the store owner says, "You haven't lost enough money to qualify so here's a box Hoops."

That's what this is like to me. I'm not saying open it up to everyone, but to "reward" people who lost a ton of money with a pack is a bit ridiculous.

And I think Top Shot is not only going to have issues finding new collectors in the future, they're having that issue now. So many folks in here alone own dozens of moments yet have a fraction of the collector score required for a pack like this. What Top Shot needs to stop doing is moving the goal posts each and every pack release.

This pretty much sums it up.

[KhalDrogo]

Dapper is in over their heads. Round 1 of the playoffs almost over, and they haven’t released a new pack yet. Should have done a top moments pack consisting of only moments from the 16 playoff teams. Generate some interest and user engagement. All they care about is making money, and they aren’t even doing that right.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Roham could take a dump in a box, put it for sale, and you’d be raving at how innovative TS is

Originally Posted by hoopstaj

1307 collector score for me, thought it would be higher. There’s no way I’d have spent more in the MP, this might be the end of TS for me personally. Was fun in the beginning.


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Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Dapper is in over their heads. Round 1 of the playoffs almost over, and they haven’t released a new pack yet. Should have done a top moments pack consisting of only moments from the 16 playoff teams. Generate some interest and user engagement. All they care about is making money, and they aren’t even doing that right.

You're just a hater!!!!

[GeechQuest]

It’s super easy to manage this.

Dapper needs to drive NEW users (like me) to the platform. They do not need to administer “loser points” like TJ said.

Those guys holding “loser points” want my new money, they don’t want to just trade capital between themselves and have dapper take 5% of the cash out of the pool with every transaction.

The fact that Dapper hasn’t figured this out is beyond me. Quit worrying about your current base, and worry about getting guys like me to participate.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

It’s super easy to manage this.

Dapper needs to drive NEW users (like me) to the platform. They do not need to administer “loser points” like TJ said.

Those guys holding “loser points” want my new money, they don’t want to just trade capital between themselves and have dapper take 5% of the cash out of the pool with every transaction.

The fact that Dapper hasn’t figured this out is beyond me. Quit worrying about your current base, and worry about getting guys like me to participate.

Let the Dapper guys do their thing. Clearly, the way to user growth is by creating more barriers to engagement. Not fewer. Trust them on this one.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

It’s super easy to manage this.

Dapper needs to drive NEW users (like me) to the platform. They do not need to administer “loser points” like TJ said.

Those guys holding “loser points” want my new money, they don’t want to just trade capital between themselves and have dapper take 5% of the cash out of the pool with every transaction.

The fact that Dapper hasn’t figured this out is beyond me. Quit worrying about your current base, and worry about getting guys like me to participate.

All they have to do is offer 1 share of AUPH with each moment purchase! They’ll have you hooked for lyfe

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Let the Dapper guys do their thing. Clearly, the way to user growth is by creating more barriers to engagement. Not fewer. Trust them on this one.

Originally Posted by jcardstore

All they have to do is offer 1 share of AUPH with each moment purchase! They’ll have you hooked for lyfe

IT



LIKE

THAT

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

It’s super easy to manage this.

Dapper needs to drive NEW users (like me) to the platform. They do not need to administer “loser points” like TJ said.

Those guys holding “loser points” want my new money, they don’t want to just trade capital between themselves and have dapper take 5% of the cash out of the pool with every transaction.

The fact that Dapper hasn’t figured this out is beyond me. Quit worrying about your current base, and worry about getting guys like me to participate.

Yep. The whales aren't putting a single new dollar into this.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by rifleman69

Yep. The whales aren't putting a single new dollar into this.

I find it kind of funny that in the span of a week, a lot of the pumpers in this thread have gone silent and there seem to be more "haters" now. What's happening in Top Shot is pretty much what the "haters" said was going to happen. From what I can gather, the total market has lost almost 50% of total value in just about a month's time.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I find it kind of funny that in the span of a week, a lot of the pumpers in this thread have gone silent and there seem to be more "haters" now. What's happening in Top Shot is pretty much what the "haters" said was going to happen. From what I can gather, the total market has lost almost 50% of total value in just about a month's time.

It’s lost way more than that.

Right now the market cap is ~$550M, but it has no liquidity.

It’s just a pool of a ton of dead money at this point.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I find it kind of funny that in the span of a week, a lot of the pumpers in this thread have gone silent and there seem to be more "haters" now. What's happening in Top Shot is pretty much what the "haters" said was going to happen.

The only one left is arch. He’s chosen to die on the TS hill. I’ve never seen him make or acknowledge a single negative(realistic) post about Topshot and he continues to ignore the reality of the situation.

I said this months ago but Topshot management has absolutely no clue what they’re doing. They don’t know how to build a brand, they don’t know how to get new customers or even keep existing ones, and they continuously manipulate the market for no apparent reason.

When the VCs invested $300m or whatever in dapper they should have brought in a halfway competent management team that knows how to build a real company. Instead of just riding the NFT hype wave which has (predictably) mostly died out.

Anyone who wasn’t blinded by dollar signs knew what was coming.

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I find it kind of funny that in the span of a week, a lot of the pumpers in this thread have gone silent and there seem to be more "haters" now. What's happening in Top Shot is pretty much what the "haters" said was going to happen. From what I can gather, the total market has lost almost 50% of total value in just about a month's time.

They'll whine and complain, telling you all to ignore the man behind the curtain. Grasping at straws...but to their credit, they're not putting any more money into this as well. If the market doesn't have any new money coming in, and a 5% skim off the top...well you know what happens next!

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

It’s lost way more than that.

Right now the market cap is ~$550M, but it has no liquidity.

It’s just a pool of a ton of dead money at this point.

No liquidity is the exact problem.

[yiguiri2002]

Wait, so I don't qualify to get a expensive pack where I can get price inflated moments that are tough to sell? And the only ones that might qualify are the people losing money or holding more of those price inflated moments?

I'm good. Bring on the regular playoff packs!

[brothertona]

Right now the only real money in Top Shot is the whales that can't really get out. Of course if I had hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up into the platform - some over a million I'd be finishing every challenge. You can't pull it all out - you likely aren't able to move moments like before so you're just stuck.

[2010GBPackers]

A February flashback - looks like the "feeding frenzy' is over!

Originally Posted by grade

Same goes for anything.
ex: BGS fans took a big hit and everyone moved to PSA. BGS fans are holding the bag.
ex: When 10,000's ultra modern PSA prizms hit the market in the next few months Who is holding the bag.
ex: Check out all the topics on BO forums, fake slaps, trimmed cards, Lost Mail, cards in grading limbo 10 months. Who is holding the bag?
ex: buying Wax from distributors at 2-10x MSRP. who is holding the bag?

The Physical Collector base has a lot of money and staying power if they get out of Denial and enter TS it will be for the better. Physical card collectors spend $10,000's -$100,000's on rookies and cards for investment and hold.

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

I hear what you're saying, and yes, there will be people in the physical card world left holding the bag at some point. I think where you are misreading this is that we (longtime physical card collectors) have been telling these newbies that there is severe risk in today's modern cards. Only recently have ultra-modern prices gone down a good percentage. And you're right - when a year's worth of ultra modern comes back from PSA, people are going to take a bath.

While I can respect a new avenue for collecting and if people like the TS movement/platform, great. Here's the issue: the same people propping up TS are the same people who came into the physical card realm. They are here solely make money and will be gone once the feeding frenzy is over. The difference between TS and the physical card hobby is that the hobby has had decades of building a solid collector base who will continue or want to come back once prices come back down to earth.

So to answer your question about who will be left holding the bag in all of the scenarios you presented - they're all the same people. And just like the seemingly normal dude in the Target isle waiting for a restock, they've now moved into TS. They're mostly middle-aged, educated and privileged men who think they're smarter than everyone else because they're "killing it" in stocks, retail flipping, sneakers, NFT's, and now TS. What they can't comprehend in their small minds is that in this environment anyone can make money.

I'm gladly taking their money now and can't wait for them to be gone.

So if you're wondering why there is skepticism here or, "hate" as others call it, that's why. We used to run a hobby forum here. Now, no one seems to care about WHY a card is rare or cool or the backstory/history behind it, they just want it to shoot to the moon. And many people are sick of it, frankly.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

The only one left is arch. He’s chosen to die on the TS hill. I’ve never seen him make or acknowledge a single negative(realistic) post about Topshot and he continues to ignore the reality of the situation.

I said this months ago but Topshot management has absolutely no clue what they’re doing. They don’t know how to build a brand, they don’t know how to get new customers or even keep existing ones, and they continuously manipulate the market for no apparent reason.

When the VCs invested $300m or whatever in dapper they should have brought in a halfway competent management team that knows how to build a real company. Instead of just riding the NFT hype wave which has (predictably) mostly died out.

Anyone who wasn’t blinded by dollar signs knew what was coming.

I got a private message last week from one of the pumpers telling me to get out and that I was just a grumpy old man. Funny how fast the tide has turned on Top Shot. Could it turn again, yeah, but do I see that happening, no.

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by brothertona

Right now the only real money in Top Shot is the whales that can't really get out. Of course if I had hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up into the platform - some over a million I'd be finishing every challenge. You can't pull it all out - you likely aren't able to move moments like before so you're just stuck.

but but but, people said they'd be fine hitting the withdraw button every week for 2+ years because eventually they'd get their 100% value right?

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I got a private message last week from one of the pumpers telling me to get out and that I was just a grumpy old man. Funny how fast the tide has turned on Top Shot. Could it turn again, yeah, but do I see that happening, no.

I got a good chuckle out of the dudes who said they were done with physical cards forever and now just focusing on Topshot. Wonder how they’re doing about now

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I got a good chuckle out of the dudes who said they were done with physical cards forever and now just focusing on Topshot. Wonder how they’re doing about now

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[grade]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I got a good chuckle out of the dudes who said they were done with physical cards forever and now just focusing on Topshot. Wonder how they’re doing about now

I am doing GREAT in both as my psa slabs are staring to arrive in the mail , TS withdraws are rolling in and added cryptocurrency because of this thread to my investments. LEARNING is part of success. (one more , MLB Topps NFT has got some good returns so far).

OFF TOPIC TIP: You all should upgrading to a new car now to your list. Some may understand what i am saying. "sell your used car for more than you bought it new. RIGHT NOW".

Thanks TS.