Topps out---Fanatics in

[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by Technochocolate

The more and more as days go by...still no details on the overall gameplan for the hobby from Fanatics.

Which makes me wonder - did MLB agree to hand over the rights without hearing a concrete plan from Fanatics? Or did Fanatics tell them the plan was to buy out Topps? Because either way, that's kind of reckless for all parties to agree to that type of plan.

They have a long time to get rolling, theres no reason to waste all of their news over the course of a single weekend. Makes more sense to draw out their press releases as long as they can so they stay in the public consciousness.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by Kracer52

If you are talking about Majestic, I don't think thats as comparable as others are saying in this thread. That was a vertical integration and purchased for their ability to make a product Fanatics now had under license. There are outside factors there as well. That allowed them to cut Under Armor out of the deal and move on to the Nike partnership, which has a much higher ceiling.

There are tons of competitors in the clothing space. There won't be much of any in this space.

MLB’s apparel deal with fanantics does NOT include what was given to Nike. And under armour left the deal(that Nike took over) due to financial issues not related to “competing” with fanatics.

Majestic’s deal covered more categories than what fanatics was given.

Fanatics really bought majestic from VF brands for the manufacturing plants.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Kracer52

They have a long time to get rolling, theres no reason to waste all of their news over the course of a single weekend. Makes more sense to draw out their press releases as long as they can so they stay in the public consciousness.

They probably also announced it when they did to torpedo topps going public. Be interesting to see if there was any usually options activity this past week.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by Technochocolate

The more and more as days go by...still no details on the overall gameplan for the hobby from Fanatics.

Which makes me wonder - did MLB agree to hand over the rights without hearing a concrete plan from Fanatics? Or did Fanatics tell them the plan was to buy out Topps? Because either way, that's kind of reckless for all parties to agree to that type of plan.

I imagine the dump truck of money made them say “ we can hear your plan later”

[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by ewokpelts

MLB’s apparel deal with fanantics does NOT include what was given to Nike. And under armour left the deal(that Nike took over) due to financial issues not related to “competing” with fanatics.

Majestic’s deal covered more categories than what fanatics was given.

Fanatics really bought majestic from VF brands for the manufacturing plants.

Originally Fanatics was going to contract UA to make the jerseys. They purchased Majestics so they could bring that in house and forced UA's hand a bit. Fanatics/Majestic are using their plant in Palmer to make the Nike stuff in the current deal. The reason I don't think all of this is comparable to cards is because they will be exclusive across Football/Basketball/Baseball by default due to the contracts. They don't need existing brands or product lines to secure the market, they are the market.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by JRX

They probably also announced it when they did to torpedo topps going public. Be interesting to see if there was any usually options activity this past week.

The most certainly engaged in economic terrorism.

The tender offers for MUDS stock were due at 5pm eastern Thursday. The deal got announced at 2pm eastern. Friday morning the deal was dead.


Gee, I wonder why this was announced when it was announced?’

[marterburn]

Originally Posted by JRX

They probably also announced it when they did to torpedo topps going public. Be interesting to see if there was any usually options activity this past week.

Right, the timing was definitely not coincidental. You don't time it that way unless you're planning some kinda hostile maneuver against Topps. (Repeating, I think you need some existing IP to make anything work. And I think F knows that.)

They moved quickly, making MLBPA & MLB an offer they couldn't refuse.

Eisner was predictably pissed that Topps was not given an opportunity to counter. There's something to make of that too -- was it just the 10 truckloads of money, or promise for other things as well?

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[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by ewokpelts

The most certainly engaged in economic terrorism.

The tender offers for MUDS stock were due at 5pm eastern Thursday. The deal got announced at 2pm eastern. Friday morning the deal was dead.


Gee, I wonder why this was announced when it was announced?’

Absolutely a tactical decision, especially since it seems Topps wasn't even aware they had competition for the contract itself.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by marterburn

Right, the timing was definitely not coincidental. You don't time it that way unless you're planning some kinda hostile maneuver against Topps. (Repeating, I think you need some existing IP to make anything work. And I think F knows that.)

They moved quickly, making MLBPA & MLB an offer they couldn't refuse.

Eisner was predictably pissed that Topps was not given an opportunity to counter. There's something to make of that too -- was it just the 10 truckloads of money, or promise for other things as well?

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Didnt mlb invest in fanatics?

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[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by JRX

Yup, I also would be really curious what topps margin is by product. I can see F making maybe a base product for the masses and then focusing on lots of high end stuff that they sell direct. We already see topps doing this with topps now autos and relics, not that I would consider that high end, the focus being on the direct part.

What if F treats it more like memorabilia. It seems obvious that they would want the distributors cut, what if they also try for the secondary market cut. Instead of selling packs with a 1 of 1 Tatis laundry tag auto in it, sell it direct for 50k. What if you don't do base/chrome/sapphire for example and just make sapphire and sell it direct for 1k a box.

Again, I'm just spit balling here, but I would think they see the growth and opportunity in the very high end. If anything that's the one area that topps still underserves, their patch cards are pretty subpar. What do we really get other than transcendent which is just an auto card in a cheap frame. I think F will make a lot of stuff well outside most people's price range. They're coming from a world where its all about showing off and hyping what you got. The question is how much will they bother to make at other price points, i.e. is it worth it to set up all the manufacturing.

All the things you said are definitely in-play, and are exactly what I’m afraid of.

[Chicosbailbonds]

Originally Posted by JRX

Didnt mlb invest in fanatics?

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Yes https://pitchbook.com/newsletter/fan...ake-and-others

[CicadaMound]

If Fanatics starts selling direct-to-consumer RPAs, I can also see them issuing boxes of those products and breaks. The gambling aspect of the hobby generates too much money to ignore.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by CicadaMound

If Fanatics starts selling direct-to-consumer RPAs, I can also see them issuing boxes of those products and breaks. The gambling aspect of the hobby generates too much money to ignore.

They could hire their own breakers or make them franchisees.

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[oplum29]

what happened to Topps?

they were football and baseball cards, and now, they are neither.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by oplum29

what happened to Topps?

they were football and baseball cards, and now, they are neither.

Nothing happened, this is like amazon coming in and buying up everything.

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[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by marterburn

Right, the timing was definitely not coincidental. You don't time it that way unless you're planning some kinda hostile maneuver against Topps. (Repeating, I think you need some existing IP to make anything work. And I think F knows that.)

They moved quickly, making MLBPA & MLB an offer they couldn't refuse.

Eisner was predictably pissed that Topps was not given an opportunity to counter. There's something to make of that too -- was it just the 10 truckloads of money, or promise for other things as well?

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Allegedly this deal was in the works for months. Topps was informed somewhat last minute and given an opportunity to match fanatics offer. As fanatics is about 15 times as valuable as Topps, Topps was unable to match the offer. Also, fanatics will likely take over cards for the NBA and NFL as the players are also financially involved in fanatics.

It sucks, and we can hope somehow the Topps brand survives but in the end all good things must end. I will likely stick to pre-2025 stuff but who knows what tomorrow will bring?

[glassofwater]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Allegedly this deal was in the works for months. Topps was informed somewhat last minute and given an opportunity to match fanatics offer. As fanatics is about 15 times as valuable as Topps, Topps was unable to match the offer. Also, fanatics will likely take over cards for the NBA and NFL as the players are also financially involved in fanatics.

It sucks, and we can hope somehow the Topps brand survives but in the end all good things must end. I will likely stick to pre-2025 stuff but who knows what tomorrow will bring?

we need a sticky not true eisner and topps were blindsided by mlb they were never given a chance to match

[marterburn]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Allegedly this deal was in the works for months. Topps was informed somewhat last minute and given an opportunity to match fanatics offer. As fanatics is about 15 times as valuable as Topps, Topps was unable to match the offer. Also, fanatics will likely take over cards for the NBA and NFL as the players are also financially involved in fanatics.



It sucks, and we can hope somehow the Topps brand survives but in the end all good things must end. I will likely stick to pre-2025 stuff but who knows what tomorrow will bring?

The story was updated I think -- that's where I got that Topps was completely blindsided.

https://twitter.com/LaurenSHirsch/st...140065289?s=19

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[NYRE2PECT]

If they were truly blindsided, can you imagine the feelings that Topps leadership must have when they got THAT phone call?

[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

If they were truly blindsided, can you imagine the feelings that Topps leadership must have when they got THAT phone call?

According to Eisner, they didn't even get a phone call, they just got a letter from the MLBPA and then he had to call them and Manfred himself.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by Kracer52

According to Eisner, they didn't even get a phone call, they just got a letter from the MLBPA and then he had to call them and Manfred himself.

That makes sense. Mlb has a vested interest in Fanatics. Fans be damned.

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[wood minis]

Wonder if Topps will have a 'sale' of all of the past stock they have on hand. They hold back cards to replace damaged cards every year. Can't imagine they just toss that stuff after the year goes by.

[auctionjmm]

There are two ways to look at the timing of the announcement...

1.) A calculated blow to Topps 6 days before going public.

2.) A life raft to investors whose shares would have crashed below $5 if the announcement happened post-merger.

I was sitting on 6,400 shares. Took a $3500 loss, but could have been $35,000 if they waited. For as slimy as this deal might have been, I feel like mercy was shown upon me haha.

[Kracer52]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

There are two ways to look at the timing of the announcement...

1.) A calculated blow to Topps 6 days before going public.

2.) A life raft to investors whose shares would have crashed below $5 if the announcement happened post-merger.

I was sitting on 6,400 shares. Took a $3500 loss, but could have been $35,000 if they waited. For as slimy as this deal might have been, I feel like mercy was shown upon me haha.

How close to NAV did you buy in? Wouldn't have helped if the merger completed, but luckily anyone who bought in close to the initial offer has relatively capped losses since they didn't complete a merger.

I think option 1 is the most likely though.

[wood minis]

Curious to see what Topps does now. Do they crank the presses for their one last year, or do they shut it down and have a year without baseball cards. And then how does Fanatics deal with Topps having an exclusive with MLB for a few more years? Do they print minus logos?