Official Tom Brady RC Price Tracker

[bills4life]

I'm proud of this one. I have been following Kurt's Card Care over the past 5-6 months or so and watched an IG video of him working on a crease in an MJ rookie which inspired me to work on a 2000 Press Pass Tom Brady Blue Torquers RC that I pulled as a kid, so it had sentimental value to me, yet always bothered me at the same time because every single time I looked at it, the first thing I would see is the nasty crease. Well, I am glad I hung on to the card all these years, because here are the results:

Before



After



I had to take a picture under the right lighting just to show the original creasing. As you can see, it is still there, but much, much less pronounced. And now when I look at the card, it's definitely not the first thing I notice.

And, by the way, if anyone is interested in the "method" I followed, here it is:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1aqaHYMjUL/

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

I've always been a Brady fan and I think I've got the most or second most posts in this thread.

That said, this is such a lazy, sad argument to make. It has zero relevance in football. You were literally just shown that Brady was outplayed that game. You could use hundreds of other metrics and that's the one you pick? I guess Eli would approve at least.

I have stated time and time again the H2H is not the primary metric I use. It is just fun to mention it often to the Mahomes-krishnas because it clearly triggers them no matter how much they deny it.

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

Probably because our brains are still functioning and we don't have to latch on to something that is so painfully stupid to try to convince ourselves. Also, you can't have it both ways, if that particular fact is SO important than Eli would be better than Brady, do you see how stupid your argument is now? No? Maybe pop your Memantine and rewatch your 18-0 perfect season highlight VHS.

Case in point demonstrated above. Look how triggered they get!! I mean, seriously.... look how angry the above person is at the mere mention of the fact that Brady that beat Mahomes once in the AFCCG and once again in the Super Bowl!! They go straight to personal attacks.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

I have stated time and time again the H2H is not the primary metric I use. It is just fun to mention it often to the Mahomes-krishnas because it clearly triggers them no matter how much they deny it.



Case in point demonstrated above. Look how triggered they get!! I mean, seriously.... look how angry the above person is at the mere mention of the fact that Brady that Mahomes once in the AFCCG and once again in the Super Bowl!! They go straight to personal attacks.

I’m not angry at all, I’m pointing out you’re a moron with concise evidence that you are, in fact, a moron.

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

I’m not angry at all, I’m pointing out you’re a moron with concise evidence that you are, in fact, a moron.

It is clear I have really gotten under your skin, my friend. Seriously, this is a football forum. Don't take it so seriously and don't get so upset at what other people think. Cease fire!! It's all in good fun!

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

It is clear I have really gotten under your skin, my friend. Seriously, this is a football forum. Don't take it so seriously and don't get so upset at what other people think. Cease fire!! It's all in good fun!

Again, I'm not upset. I see stupid, I call out stupid. I get it, it's sports entertainment and it doesn't really matter and some people enjoy arguing about that stuff, but that particular argument is terrible and I would prefer to see people at least argue about things that make sense. Really shouldn't be any arguments at all right now, just wait another 10 years and see what happens, assuming you're still around there will be plenty of people to fight with I'm sure.

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

Again, I'm not upset.

Of course you are. Personal attacks are a natural consequence of someone being upset, and there have been no shortage of personal attacks from you here, my friend.

Like I said: Relax. It's all fun and games on a forum like this. No need to get so personal.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

Of course you are. Personal attacks are a natural consequence of someone being upset, and there have been no shortage of personal attacks from you here, my friend.

Like I said: Relax. It's all fun and games on a forum like this. No need to get so personal.

So you're saying you have never had or even seen an interaction where someone pointed out that someone said or did something stupid without that person being upset? Maybe you shouldn't assume everyone is like you? It's not even an attack, it's pointing out the laughably fallacious argument. I am relaxed, I'm not upset, it doesn't make me angry to type words on the internet. I would say the same thing to a friend if they continued to make a stupid argument, but most of my friends wouldn't keep doing it after having it pointed out the first time.

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

So you're saying you have never had or even seen an interaction where someone pointed out that someone said or did something stupid without that person being upset? Maybe you shouldn't assume everyone is like you? It's not even an attack, it's pointing out the laughably fallacious argument. I am relaxed, I'm not upset, it doesn't make me angry to type words on the internet. I would say the same thing to a friend if they continued to make a stupid argument, but most of my friends wouldn't keep doing it after having it pointed out the first time.

Telling someone they have made a stupid argument is one thing, but you didn't do that here. You got personal and made several personal attacks; i.e. "you’re a moron". (To then follow up by denying you made a personal attack is pure weaksauce, but I digress). "You're a moron" are not the words of a calm individual interested in reasoned debate.

Having said that, it is clear you are obsessed with having the last word here and I shall let you have it so as to stop hijacking this thread. My only advice to you my friend is to just not take these things so seriously. It a fun forum! Relax and enjoy it!

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by bills4life

I'm proud of this one. I have been following Kurt's Card Care over the past 5-6 months or so and watched an IG video of him working on a crease in an MJ rookie which inspired me to work on a 2000 Press Pass Tom Brady Blue Torquers RC that I pulled as a kid, so it had sentimental value to me, yet always bothered me at the same time because every single time I looked at it, the first thing I would see is the nasty crease. Well, I am glad I hung on to the card all these years, because here are the results:

Before



After



I had to take a picture under the right lighting just to show the original creasing. As you can see, it is still there, but much, much less pronounced. And now when I look at the card, it's definitely not the first thing I notice.

And, by the way, if anyone is interested in the "method" I followed, here it is:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1aqaHYMjUL/

Putting myself back to the subject at hand...

The above definitely appears to be an improvement based on the pictures we can see. Very well done.

I have submitted comic books for "pressing" when I submit them to CGC, but it is tough to know how well the pressing works. The people doing the pressing are also the ones doing the grading which seems to potentially be a conflict of interest.... but I like the work you did.

[SleeperCards]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

Telling someone they have made a stupid argument is one thing, but you didn't do that here. You got personal and made several personal attacks; i.e. "you’re a moron". (To then follow up by denying you made a personal attack is pure weaksauce, but I digress). "You're a moron" are not the words of a calm individual interested in reasoned debate.

Having said that, it is clear you are obsessed with having the last word here and I shall let you have it so as to stop hijacking this thread. My only advice to you my friend is to just not take these things so seriously. It a fun forum! Relax and enjoy it!

You're a moron because you keep using it. I'm perfectly capable of delivering the line "You're a moron" in a calm way, there is no reasoned debate because you lack the capability of reason. My advice to you would be to stop posting stupid things on a fun forum, or if you insist on posting stupid things you can expect to be labeled as stupid. Not that difficult really.

[Fenway55]

Originally Posted by HeyRelaxGuy

+1 +1 +1

[jasonm2121]

Originally Posted by pejc300

So weird. Stats in that 2019 AFCCG:

Mahomes - 16/31 295 yards 3 TDs 0 INTs
Brady - 30/46 348 yards 1 TD 2 INTs

Brady literally throws a pick with 1:30 left in the game to seal it for the Chiefs but Dee Ford had lined up offsides, saving Brady.

Yes, there are all kinds of "what ifs" in football, but to choose this game somehow to say that "Brady beat Mahomes" is so strange.

No need to grasp at straws my man. Brady was amazing. He is the GOAT.

Funny how every Mahomes fan points to stats when he is high, even in a loss, when his stats are average, they say how amazing he is as well. His defense did an amazing job this season and you do not hear a peep about it. I would bet if Brady won this year, everyone would say how lucky he was because of the punt turnover, yet you do not hear much about it for Mahomes. You would hear all about the Greenlaw injury too and how that changed the passing game, yet no one has mentioned it much for Mahomes. When Brady won 2001-02, it is still proudly mentioned to this day by every Mahomes homer how the defense was the reason. They are both great, and both win as well as anyone in the league's history. In the end, it is a team sport and there is no one I would rather have at QB than Brady, but I understand how great Mahomes has been and will continue to be in the future. Stats never tell the full story, merely a part of the story, for every QB. Brady has the records, but that is not why I believe he is the best. He adapted to a different offense and personnel almost every season, and did a great job, better than anyone I have ever seen over 23 years. Impressive IMO.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by jasonm2121

Funny how every Mahomes fan points to stats when he is high, even in a loss, when his stats are average, they say how amazing he is as well. His defense did an amazing job this season and you do not hear a peep about it. I would bet if Brady won this year, everyone would say how lucky he was because of the punt turnover, yet you do not hear much about it for Mahomes. You would hear all about the Greenlaw injury too and how that changed the passing game, yet no one has mentioned it much for Mahomes. When Brady won 2001-02, it is still proudly mentioned to this day by every Mahomes homer how the defense was the reason. They are both great, and both win as well as anyone in the league's history. In the end, it is a team sport and there is no one I would rather have at QB than Brady, but I understand how great Mahomes has been and will continue to be in the future. Stats never tell the full story, merely a part of the story, for every QB. Brady has the records, but that is not why I believe he is the best. He adapted to a different offense and personnel almost every season, and did a great job, better than anyone I have ever seen over 23 years. Impressive IMO.

No disagreement on anything you said. The conversation was simply that it is strange to use the head to head as some kind of iron clad argument, especially in light of the info I posted in the AFCCG. I don't follow the Patriots much, just like you probably don't follow the Chiefs. The defense of the Chiefs has been THE TALK of the entire season, and I'm seeing tons of info floating around IG about their greatness this year. Everyone knows the Chiefs don't win without that defense.

Brady is the best ever. I just don't think "he" beat Mahomes in the AFCCG in any way that was meaningful toward this conversation.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by pejc300

No disagreement on anything you said. The conversation was simply that it is strange to use the head to head as some kind of iron clad argument, especially in light of the info I posted in the AFCCG. I don't follow the Patriots much, just like you probably don't follow the Chiefs. The defense of the Chiefs has been THE TALK of the entire season, and I'm seeing tons of info floating around IG about their greatness this year. Everyone knows the Chiefs don't win without that defense.

Brady is the best ever. I just don't think "he" beat Mahomes in the AFCCG in any way that was meaningful toward this conversation.

Yeah - weird comment about not hearing a peep about the defense. That's pretty much all we talked about this year (other than the receiver drops...). They only got to the Super Bowl because of the D.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by bills4life

I'm proud of this one. I have been following Kurt's Card Care over the past 5-6 months or so and watched an IG video of him working on a crease in an MJ rookie which inspired me to work on a 2000 Press Pass Tom Brady Blue Torquers RC that I pulled as a kid, so it had sentimental value to me, yet always bothered me at the same time because every single time I looked at it, the first thing I would see is the nasty crease. Well, I am glad I hung on to the card all these years, because here are the results:

Before



After



I had to take a picture under the right lighting just to show the original creasing. As you can see, it is still there, but much, much less pronounced. And now when I look at the card, it's definitely not the first thing I notice.

And, by the way, if anyone is interested in the "method" I followed, here it is:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1aqaHYMjUL/

I for one am definitely not impressed by your attempt at card alteration. keep in mind, we are just caretakers and eventually that card will hit the market.

not cool

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

I for one am definitely not impressed by your attempt at card alteration. keep in mind, we are just caretakers and eventually that card will hit the market.

not cool

Sorry to hear that. But if you read my original post, this was a card from my PC that I pulled myself in 2000, when I collected sports cards as a childhood hobby. Since it has sentimental value to me (but does not hold much monetary value, being it is a Press Pass RC) it hasn’t left my collection for 24 years, and never will, unless I pass it on to my son, maybe.

Anyway, I still appreciation your opinion, and I guess we have different perspectives on something like this. I don’t think trying to remove a crease is a big deal. Originally, this card did not have a crease, so I look at it as restoring the original card. And I think “restoring” a card is different from “altering” a card, especially a card that is your own and no intention to sell or trade. We aren’t talking about trimming edges, etc.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by bills4life

Sorry to hear that. But if you read my original post, this was a card from my PC that I pulled myself in 2000, when I collected sports cards as a childhood hobby. Since it has sentimental value to me (but does not hold much monetary value, being it is a Press Pass RC) it hasn’t left my collection for 24 years, and never will, unless I pass it on to my son, maybe.

Anyway, I still appreciation your opinion, and I guess we have different perspectives on something like this. I don’t think trying to remove a crease is a big deal. Originally, this card did not have a crease, so I look at it as restoring the original card. And I think “restoring” a card is different from “altering” a card, especially a card that is your own and no intention to sell or trade. We aren’t talking about trimming edges, etc.

From Jackie Robinson rookies to Tom Brady Press Pass cards, Brent has really fallen off.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by bills4life

Sorry to hear that. But if you read my original post, this was a card from my PC that I pulled myself in 2000, when I collected sports cards as a childhood hobby. Since it has sentimental value to me (but does not hold much monetary value, being it is a Press Pass RC) it hasn’t left my collection for 24 years, and never will, unless I pass it on to my son, maybe.

Anyway, I still appreciation your opinion, and I guess we have different perspectives on something like this. I don’t think trying to remove a crease is a big deal. Originally, this card did not have a crease, so I look at it as restoring the original card. And I think “restoring” a card is different from “altering” a card, especially a card that is your own and no intention to sell or trade. We aren’t talking about trimming edges, etc.

anything you do to a card to "improve" its physical aspects is alteration. That would include rubbing out corner wear like Kurt does and also rubbing out creases. eventually, whether it is you or your son or your sons son, that card will hit the market. there an unsuspecting or inexperienced collector could end up with it. "restoration" is acceptable in many hobbies: classic cars, comic books, fine art etc. that acceptance is not transferable to other hobbies like collecting sportscards where it is HIGHLY frowned upon.

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

anything you do to a card to "improve" its physical aspects is alteration. That would include rubbing out corner wear like Kurt does and also rubbing out creases. eventually, whether it is you or your son or your sons son, that card will hit the market. there an unsuspecting or inexperienced collector could end up with it. "restoration" is acceptable in many hobbies: classic cars, comic books, fine art etc. that acceptance is not transferable to other hobbies like collecting sportscards where it is HIGHLY frowned upon.

Again, I believe that is a subjective opinion. Take Kurt's Card Care for example. For each person that frowns upon his work, there are several more fans that are very appreciative of his work and contributions to the hobby (and I realize your take on this would be the complete opposite).

Like I said, I appreciate and understand your perspective. I just think we disagree on where the line is drawn. And there are plenty of others that would agree with that, as there are people that would agree with you. This is not a black and white issue.

Which brings up another point, a lot of the opinions depend on where you go and who you talk to. For instance, a collecting group on FB vs. Blowout Forums. I've been around both, and there is certainly a difference in overall opinions, but the common denominator is that they are all collectors.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by bills4life

Again, I believe that is a subjective opinion. Take Kurt's Card Care for example. For each person that frowns upon his work, there are several more fans that are very appreciative of his work and contributions to the hobby (and I realize your take on this would be the complete opposite).

Like I said, I appreciate and understand your perspective. I just think we disagree on where the line is drawn. And there are plenty of others that would agree with that, as there are people that would agree with you. This is not a black and white issue.

Which brings up another point, a lot of the opinions depend on where you go and who you talk to. For instance, a collecting group on FB vs. Blowout Forums. I've been around both, and there is certainly a difference in overall opinions, but the common denominator is that they are all collectors.

I have been around this hobby for a very long time. "collectors" are not in agreeance with anything about Kurts "card care" the people who are into "restoration" and card doctoring are those who are looking to sneak it past the grading companies and flip for a quick buck. the "acceptance" of card doctors of which you speak is a very very new aspect. and like I said, it is a very high preponderance of flippers that are the ones supporting his "restorations" most are young and new collectors.

let me ask you a question. You are purchasing a card for your collection and there are two copies on the table that look exactly the same. one is original, one has been "restored" The price is exactly the same. Which one do you choose? and why?

[bills4life]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

I have been around this hobby for a very long time. "collectors" are not in agreeance with anything about Kurts "card care" the people who are into "restoration" and card doctoring are those who are looking to sneak it past the grading companies and flip for a quick buck. the "acceptance" of card doctors of which you speak is a very very new aspect. and like I said, it is a very high preponderance of flippers that are the ones supporting his "restorations" most are young and new collectors.

let me ask you a question. You are purchasing a card for your collection and there are two copies on the table that look exactly the same. one is original, one has been "restored" The price is exactly the same. Which one do you choose? and why?

I would take the original. My reasoning, in part, would be that just because a card is restored, does not necessarily mean the original issue had been completely remedied. For example, you can still see the crease in my Brady RC; it's just not as pronounced as before.

Now, if you said they look exactly the same (condition wise), then heck I don't know, give me either one. They are identical, after all. If you shuffled them, you wouldn't know which is the original and which is restored.

Perhaps the more applicable question would be:

I'm at a show and see a card I need for my PC. It appears to be in NRMT+ condition, but the seller informs me that the card had been "restored". With this new information, do I still want the card?

Yes! As long as there is nothing egregious, nothing fake (i.e. custom patch), then yes, I still want the card.

For all I know, I might have other card(s) in my PC that were restored, and if I'm oblivious to the fact, what difference does it make? If you told me, there are 2 cards in your Josh Allen PC that were restored, which ones are they? I honestly would not be able to tell you, because they all look the way they should.

Now, let's say I was in the market for a cheap Brady rookie, and one of my options was the same "restored" Press Pass RC that sparked this conversation. Would I want that card? Probably NOT. As I mentioned before, the crease was significantly reduced, but it wasn't completely removed; it's still there. So, if I was shopping for the same card, knowing it is a relatively common card, I would try to find it in NRMT+ condition instead.

I have been in the hobby for many years as well. From around 1993-2001 as a kid, and then 2015-Present in my adulthood. Fake cards bother me, "reprints" bother me, trimmed cards and cards that are altered from their original condition bother me too! But what I did, which was trying to "smooth out" a creased card, is not a whole lot different from cleaning the surface of a dirty card, including the removal of surface scratches. Just how I see it.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by bills4life

I would take the original. My reasoning, in part, would be that just because a card is restored, does not necessarily mean the original issue had been completely remedied. For example, you can still see the crease in my Brady RC; it's just not as pronounced as before.

Now, if you said they look exactly the same (condition wise), then heck I don't know, give me either one. They are identical, after all. If you shuffled them, you wouldn't know which is the original and which is restored.

Perhaps the more applicable question would be:

I'm at a show and see a card I need for my PC. It appears to be in NRMT+ condition, but the seller informs me that the card had been "restored". With this new information, do I still want the card?

Yes! As long as there is nothing egregious, nothing fake (i.e. custom patch), then yes, I still want the card.

For all I know, I might have other card(s) in my PC that were restored, and if I'm oblivious to the fact, what difference does it make? If you told me, there are 2 cards in your Josh Allen PC that were restored, which ones are they? I honestly would not be able to tell you, because they all look the way they should.

Now, let's say I was in the market for a cheap Brady rookie, and one of my options was the same "restored" Press Pass RC that sparked this conversation. Would I want that card? Probably NOT. As I mentioned before, the crease was significantly reduced, but it wasn't completely removed; it's still there. So, if I was shopping for the same card, knowing it is a relatively common card, I would try to find it in NRMT+ condition instead.

I have been in the hobby for many years as well. From around 1993-2001 as a kid, and then 2015-Present in my adulthood. Fake cards bother me, "reprints" bother me, trimmed cards and cards that are altered from their original condition bother me too! But what I did, which was trying to "smooth out" a creased card, is not a whole lot different from cleaning the surface of a dirty card, including the removal of surface scratches. Just how I see it.

"the crease is just not as pronounced as before"

Ok, take it into the future. you and your descendants no longer hold the card. say the original condition was a PSA 1. Your "improved" new condition is PSA 3. can you see the problem?

what if we are not talking a $25 Brady rookie. What if we are talking a 33 Goudey Ruth or a 52 Topps Mantle? Would a couple of grades up influence things any? Would you rather have a "restored PSA 3 Goudey Ruth or an original one?

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by pejc300

No disagreement on anything you said. The conversation was simply that it is strange to use the head to head as some kind of iron clad argument, especially in light of the info I posted in the AFCCG. I don't follow the Patriots much, just like you probably don't follow the Chiefs. The defense of the Chiefs has been THE TALK of the entire season, and I'm seeing tons of info floating around IG about their greatness this year. Everyone knows the Chiefs don't win without that defense.

Brady is the best ever. I just don't think "he" beat Mahomes in the AFCCG in any way that was meaningful toward this conversation.

Uh, look at who he had at receiver that year. No true, explosive wideouts. The guy made several clutch 3rd down conversions late in the game to win it. Not to mention checking into runs that gashed the chiefs.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

Uh, look at who he had at receiver that year. No true, explosive wideouts. The guy made several clutch 3rd down conversions late in the game to win it. Not to mention checking into runs that gashed the chiefs.

Glad you're still around. Thought you might vanish after all of that Chiefs nonsense. You've been real quiet in the Mahomes thread.

[jasonm2121]

Originally Posted by pejc300

No disagreement on anything you said. The conversation was simply that it is strange to use the head to head as some kind of iron clad argument, especially in light of the info I posted in the AFCCG. I don't follow the Patriots much, just like you probably don't follow the Chiefs. The defense of the Chiefs has been THE TALK of the entire season, and I'm seeing tons of info floating around IG about their greatness this year. Everyone knows the Chiefs don't win without that defense.

Brady is the best ever. I just don't think "he" beat Mahomes in the AFCCG in any way that was meaningful toward this conversation.

No doubt, I think it is more on the media side than anything. You are correct, anyone who watches the games and the season knows, bright future for sure with that in place. Really wish Luck would have stuck around, they could have been one amazing rivalry.