2023-24 NBA Season Thread

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

They also have Draymond who’s the best defensive player on either team.

Yes I would rather have Draymond as my defensive leader than Giannis. If people think that’s a hot take it’s fine I can defend it.

I think Giannis is a defensive beast mostly just because he’s a physical freak and can do things that everyone else can’t. Draymond is not a physical freak but he’s the defensive QB. He’s making everything work together

Oh and they got rid of Poole lmao

That's supposed to be a hot take?

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

That's supposed to be a hot take?

I guarantee people on here are going to be upset about this

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

They also have Draymond who’s the best defensive player on either team.

Yes I would rather have Draymond as my defensive leader than Giannis. If people think that’s a hot take it’s fine I can defend it.

I think Giannis is a defensive beast mostly just because he’s a physical freak and can do things that everyone else can’t. Draymond is not a physical freak but he’s the defensive QB. He’s making everything work together

Oh and they got rid of Poole lmao

I don't but the people still defending Giannis as the 1A player in the game should be forced to. I think he's a very strong #2 but the gap between Jokic and him is much further than most like to admit.

I also did just see a Draymond quote saying the 'chemistry' is much better this year and guys are excited to be together, lol the vets really did not like Poole.

[dunkindutchmen]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I wanted to go back and watch to see schematically what the differences really were and not even 1 minute into the game Giannis just totally lost on a blown coverage.

Could just be growing pains with a new "scheme" but he just looks totally lost and doesn't seem to be engaged here. What else could Giannis have expected there? Khris go under and peel out to Siakam and Giannis stay in the corner on Barnes? Lillard clearly thinks this is a normal switch until he seems Giannis right there

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media...c_1280x720.mp4

Giannis is in proper position here. With Lillard initially trying to go over the ball screen AND Kris switching on Schroder, that leaves the screener wide open on the backside. Giannis covers it as Lopez rotation leaves 2-on-1 at rim, and Beasley is too high and far for rotation.

His instincts are correct, his communication, though, might be the problem. Or it could have just been Dame's slow recognition, as we see him eventually peel off and look for a rotation in the paint.

If Giannis commits to the help and switch, he must be yelling at Dame to switch off and pointing to his man at the top, and Dame should be expecting this, especially if they have a switching rule with bigs on guards.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I wanted to go back and watch to see schematically what the differences really were and not even 1 minute into the game Giannis just totally lost on a blown coverage.

Could just be growing pains with a new "scheme" but he just looks totally lost and doesn't seem to be engaged here. What else could Giannis have expected there? Khris go under and peel out to Siakam and Giannis stay in the corner on Barnes? Lillard clearly thinks this is a normal switch until he seems Giannis right there

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media...c_1280x720.mp4

Yeah maybe it is growing pains with a new coach/system but you'd expect a player of Giannis' caliber to at the least be engaged/hungry to make it work. Not a great sign, but we'll give them a bit longer to figure it out. Even though it's funny that most fans and even experts have been very quick to talk down the Wolves and their Gobert/KAT experiment, even with how much KAT was injured last year. They currently sit #1 in defensive rating and as I said back in the playoffs, were the only team who really gave Denver a test.

And they were without McDaniels in the playoffs and he really locked up Murray last night. It's wild that Minny has caught so much flack when they are a very solid team and have built themselves to take on Denver, which is what all the other teams in the league should be striving for and nobody has seemingly done. You put two tenacious/capable wing defenders with Gobert and good things will happen. If they stay healthy this year they can beat anyone in the West. Boston is maybe the team in the East that improved the most with the addition of Jrue and swapping Williams for Porzingis will pay off if he stays healthy.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by daeve

I don't but the people still defending Giannis as the 1A player in the game should be forced to. I think he's a very strong #2 but the gap between Jokic and him is much further than most like to admit.

I also did just see a Draymond quote saying the 'chemistry' is much better this year and guys are excited to be together, lol the vets really did not like Poole.

Re: Poole/Green/Warriors...I think it was thought wrong last year that it was kinda like the whole team was mad at Draymond for the Poole thing, that's at least sorta how it seemed to be portrayed. I think it was like you said, all the vets hated Poole because the Warriors look REALLY good this year.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by dunkindutchmen

Giannis is in proper position here. With Lillard initially trying to go over the ball screen AND Kris switching on Schroder, that leaves the screener wide open on the backside. Giannis covers it as Lopez rotation leaves 2-on-1 at rim, and Beasley is too high and far for rotation.

His instincts are correct, his communication, though, might be the problem. Or it could have just been Dame's slow recognition, as we see him eventually peel off and look for a rotation in the paint.

If Giannis commits to the help and switch, he must be yelling at Dame to switch off and pointing to his man at the top, and Dame should be expecting this, especially if they have a switching rule with bigs on guards.

It's impossible to know what *should* have been done there because I've seen other G/F high PnRs where Milwaukee straight switched it. I haven't seen other peels like that. Also, I haven't watched every minute of their games and don't have second spectrum so I may be missing it

Anyways, peeling like that on the perimeter only helps your big from having to come up and contest if they're in drop. If you're just doing G/G G/F PnR asking Lillard to peel is just going to result in him getting blown by and now Giannis is stuck in the corner coming to contest

[dunkindutchmen]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

It's impossible to know what *should* have been done there because I've seen other G/F high PnRs where Milwaukee straight switched it. I haven't seen other peels like that. Also, I haven't watched every minute of their games and don't have second spectrum so I may be missing it

Anyways, peeling like that on the perimeter only helps your big from having to come up and contest if they're in drop. If you're just doing G/G G/F PnR asking Lillard to peel is just going to result in him getting blown by and now Giannis is stuck in the corner coming to contest

Well, no.... we know Giannis was in proper help position. If he fills up with Siakam, this picture shows us that Barnes, without any doubt, catches the lob at the mid-post or middle paint, putting Lopez in rotation to stop the layup, and Poeltl flushes the dunk.

You can critique the p&r coverage, but it doesn't change the fact that Giannis read the play and was in proper position.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by dunkindutchmen

Well, no.... we know Giannis was in proper help position. If he fills up with Siakam, this picture shows us that Barnes, without any doubt, catches the lob at the mid-post or middle paint, putting Lopez in rotation to stop the layup, and Poeltl flushes the dunk.

You can critique the p&r coverage, but it doesn't change the fact that Giannis read the play and was in proper position.

Well you don’t know what proper position is because you’re not the coach.

If that’s the ask of lillard… to go against his momentum to try and get into a good guarding position against a wing who’s catching the ball at the top of the arc… your scheme sucks. You can’t do that with lillard and he’s going to get blown by every time and get dunked on because both your bigs are on the perimeter

I’m just going to leave it here because it’s clear that you believe you know how that coverage was diagrammed by the coach. I could find you multiple clips of Giannis coming up on this exact same PnR but you’d still find some way to argue it

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Re: Poole/Green/Warriors...I think it was thought wrong last year that it was kinda like the whole team was mad at Draymond for the Poole thing, that's at least sorta how it seemed to be portrayed. I think it was like you said, all the vets hated Poole because the Warriors look REALLY good this year.

CPIII - 41 assists, 6 turnovers
Poole - 10 assists, 13 turnovers

You want to know why the Warriors look so much better this year, that's why....

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by mfw13

CPIII - 41 assists, 6 turnovers
Poole - 10 assists, 13 turnovers

You want to know why the Warriors look so much better this year, that's why....

Aside from Paul replacing Poole, it's clear the vets hated Poole combined with Moody/Kuminga playing better/more and the overall chemistry being better. It was easy to tell. Poole doing himself no favors with his zero IQ play in Washington.

[KhalDrogo]

It’s the regular season. The players don’t care. Hard to draw conclusions so early.

With that being said, don’t be surprised when the Bucks flame out early in the playoffs again. Giannis has no heart. We saw it last year when he missed playoff games due to a boo boo on his back, and led the Bucks to getting annihilated by a play-in team in five games. Dude got his two bags. He’s done.

[dunkindutchmen]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Well you don’t know what proper position is because you’re not the coach.

If that’s the ask of lillard… to go against his momentum to try and get into a good guarding position against a wing who’s catching the ball at the top of the arc… your scheme sucks. You can’t do that with lillard and he’s going to get blown by every time and get dunked on because both your bigs are on the perimeter

I’m just going to leave it here because it’s clear that you believe you know how that coverage was diagrammed by the coach. I could find you multiple clips of Giannis coming up on this exact same PnR but you’d still find some way to argue it

I don't think I could face palm hard enough right now. This would be basic help-side fundamentals that you learn in 6th grade. The only time they are ignored is when you are guarding an elite 3-point shooter, like Curry. That is legitimately the only time in basketball any coach will ever tell you to ignore help-side responsibilities.

And since Siakam is a below-average 3-point shooter, we can very safely assume Giannis made the correct call here. Picture below shows, essentially, commitment of 2 to the ball.... who on earth would be responsible for the help if not the low man closest to the ball?

The mistake is either they were not supposed to switch (Middleton mistake) or Dame mistake by not jumping under the screen to prevent the seal. But once this happens (he goes over) Dame is on the high-side of a 6'9 roller and there is no ambiguity at all who is responsible for the help. Unless you want to argue Siakam 3 more of a threat than Barnes/Poeltl layup/dunk, there's absolutely no argument here.

[IMG][/IMG]

[oldgoldy97]

Y’all acting like they give a rip on D

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by dunkindutchmen

I don't think I could face palm hard enough right now. This would be basic help-side fundamentals that you learn in 6th grade. The only time they are ignored is when you are guarding an elite 3-point shooter, like Curry. That is legitimately the only time in basketball any coach will ever tell you to ignore help-side responsibilities.

And since Siakam is a below-average 3-point shooter, we can very safely assume Giannis made the correct call here. Picture below shows, essentially, commitment of 2 to the ball.... who on earth would be responsible for the help if not the low man closest to the ball?

The mistake is either they were not supposed to switch (Middleton mistake) or Dame mistake by not jumping under the screen to prevent the seal. But once this happens (he goes over) Dame is on the high-side of a 6'9 roller and there is no ambiguity at all who is responsible for the help. Unless you want to argue Siakam 3 more of a threat than Barnes/Poeltl layup/dunk, there's absolutely no argument here.

[IMG][/IMG]

It’s great we’ve got someone on the bucks coaching staff on this board!

Who knew NBA teams were using “6th grade fundamentals”

Such a predictable response and you couldn’t even help yourself when I called it out beforehand

[yiguiri2002]

Guys I have a wild theory...

Maybe Giannis is still adjusting to playing with a below average defensive PG instead of one of the best defensive PGs of the century?

[tjforce]

The reactions to the Bucks 2-2 start reminds me of EVERY SINGLE SEASON during LeBron's second run with the Cavs, when in January or earlier there would be some panic because the team wasn't playing up to championship form.

The fact that year after year people kept saying that he was washed during his age 30-33 seasons is just comical now, considering what he's dong in his age 39 season.

If you don't remember all the talk, maybe this will ring a bell:

[indyguy]

Originally Posted by dunkindutchmen

Well, no.... we know Giannis was in proper help position. If he fills up with Siakam, this picture shows us that Barnes, without any doubt, catches the lob at the mid-post or middle paint, putting Lopez in rotation to stop the layup, and Poeltl flushes the dunk.

You can critique the p&r coverage, but it doesn't change the fact that Giannis read the play and was in proper position.

Well, no, Giannis is not in proper help position. He is currently lost. He is actually in illegal defensive position because Siakam is above the free throw line. Giannis should be above the free throw line UNLESS he told Dame to switch here. Can we hear if he did? I didn't hear it, so we will have to assume he didn't call it out OR he called the switch late.

If we are talking about proper help defense, then Lopez has the backside (he is currently there) and then your opposite guard would rotate down to take Lopez' man. This is the correct rotation.

Originally Posted by dunkindutchmen

I don't think I could face palm hard enough right now. This would be basic help-side fundamentals that you learn in 6th grade. The only time they are ignored is when you are guarding an elite 3-point shooter, like Curry. That is legitimately the only time in basketball any coach will ever tell you to ignore help-side responsibilities.

And since Siakam is a below-average 3-point shooter, we can very safely assume Giannis made the correct call here. Picture below shows, essentially, commitment of 2 to the ball.... who on earth would be responsible for the help if not the low man closest to the ball?

The mistake is either they were not supposed to switch (Middleton mistake) or Dame mistake by not jumping under the screen to prevent the seal. But once this happens (he goes over) Dame is on the high-side of a 6'9 roller and there is no ambiguity at all who is responsible for the help. Unless you want to argue Siakam 3 more of a threat than Barnes/Poeltl layup/dunk, there's absolutely no argument here.

[IMG][/IMG]

If you are teaching this as proper help side defense, please stop coaching and hand over the clipboard to someone who understands it. No way, shape or form is a coach teaching this as proper help side when the actual proper help defender is already in place, in Lopez.

If there was a pass to Barnes, Lopez steps up, opposite guard drops to big, Lillard rotates to player that the opposite guard just left. That is the proper rotation there. You could also have Giannis rotate to the wing and Lillard come straight up to Siakam, but since you have guard on guard and Lillard would basically be in the passing lane already, he should take that wing on the rotation.

Class dismissed.

Edited to add: The only way Giannis is correct here is if they were on A 2/3 zone. Then Dame forgot the assignment

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by indyguy

Well, no, Giannis is not in proper help position. He is currently lost. He is actually in illegal defensive position because Siakam is above the free throw line. Giannis should be above the free throw line UNLESS he told Dame to switch here. Can we hear if he did? I didn't hear it, so we will have to assume he didn't call it out OR he called the switch late.

If we are talking about proper help defense, then Lopez has the backside (he is currently there) and then your opposite guard would rotate down to take Lopez' man. This is the correct rotation.




If you are teaching this as proper help side defense, please stop coaching and hand over the clipboard to someone who understands it. No way, shape or form is a coach teaching this as proper help side when the actual proper help defender is already in place, in Lopez.

If there was a pass to Barnes, Lopez steps up, opposite guard drops to big, Lillard rotates to player that the opposite guard just left. That is the proper rotation there. You could also have Giannis rotate to the wing and Lillard come straight up to Siakam, but since you have guard on guard and Lillard would basically be in the passing lane already, he should take that wing on the rotation.

Class dismissed.

Edited to add: The only way Giannis is correct here is if they were on A 2/3 zone. Then Dame forgot the assignment

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by brothertona

God that defense is terrible, I definitely wasn’t expecting that much of a drop from Jrue to Dame. It’s night and day. They can’t stop really anyone.

jokic-laughing.gif is a common theme

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

I have no idea who this woman announcer is on ESPN, but she’s absolutely unbearable.

philly kate moved to espn?

(doris burke, however, is bearable)

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Fossil still the best player on the floor for the Fakers at age 93.

Not sure if that's praise for him, or an indictment on that roster.

kobe mentioned being basketball age of 70 or so when he was 36-37. Being NBA-active at 39 is even more unusual

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I think people tend to overestimate offense and under-estimate defense when analyzing trades.

People put Dame on a pedestal because of his offense, while ignoring the fact that one of the reasons why Portland never got very far in the playoffs was because of his bad defense.

It's a similar story with Trae Young in Atlanta and Ja in Memphis....being spectacular on offense doesn't get you very far in the playoffs if your defense is mediocre.

jordan-laughing.gif?

[Kingofkings1281]

James Harden today: “I’m not a system player. I AM a system.” Hahaha

This is going to be fun.

[indyguy]

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

James Harden today: “I’m not a system player. I AM a system.” Hahaha

This is going to be fun.

That’s a hell of a quote!