BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[luckyduck]

I like a lot of Leaf sets, too, but it sure looks like their employee responsible for the relationship with BGS is getting fraudulent grades from BGS. That seems like a problem for a company that sells premium buy-back Best Of releases containing BGS graded cards.

[gmarutiak]

Quick question: are the any pictures or links to these black label cards that one would see and automatically think that there's no possible way it should have earned a black label?

[lisu]

I'm waiting to see Joe's response before making any sort of judgment here. In the past when Joe worked for BGS, he was always helpful in looking over my cards and advising me if I should grade them or not. And even now, he takes a lot of time to look at cards to see if they are gradeable or not. I agree that the evidence looks very suspicious but I've had a lot of dealings with Joe in the past.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by lisu

I agree that the evidence looks very suspicious but ...

While I appreciate the charity, there's more chance of a destroyed sunken battleship reassembling itself at the bottom of the ocean than there is of this being coincidence.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

Quick question: are the any pictures or links to these black label cards that one would see and automatically think that there's no possible way it should have earned a black label?

Quoting myself, I know, but here:

Originally Posted by superdan49

I want to know how this gets a BGS 10 on edges. If you were going to pay $10 to take a risk on grading a 50-cent chrome card, wouldn't you pick a better looking one? I guess my eye isn't as good as the Beckett grading team:

[Rooftop]

Originally Posted by luckyduck

I like a lot of Leaf sets, too, but it sure looks like their employee responsible for the relationship with BGS is getting fraudulent grades from BGS. That seems like a problem for a company that sells premium buy-back Best Of releases containing BGS graded cards.

Bingo

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by lisu

I'm waiting to see Joe's response before making any sort of judgment here. In the past when Joe worked for BGS, he was always helpful in looking over my cards and advising me if I should grade them or not. And even now, he takes a lot of time to look at cards to see if they are gradeable or not. I agree that the evidence looks very suspicious but I've had a lot of dealings with Joe in the past.

How long do you plan on waiting?

[COMCMax]

Why don't they just guarantee Black Labels and say the hell with the rest at this point.

To be fair leaf metal cards usually grade well lol

[marlinsmaniac20]

Originally Posted by marlinsmaniac20

Has anyone looked into the 2018 Topps Chrome Acuna base RC?

Cert - 10991327 - Black Label on 12/19/18
Cert - 10991328 - Black Label on 12/19/18
Cert - 10991329 - BGS 10 on 12/19/18

EDIT

Cert- 11239910 - BGS 10 Black Label on 4/18/19
Cert - 11239911 -BGS 10 Black Label on 4/18/19

Some more of these here

Cert - 11358957- BGS 10 Black Label 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna Negative Refractor on 5/30/19
Cert -11358958 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358959 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto Base RC on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358960 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Update Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358961 - BGS 10 Black Label 2018 Topps Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358962 - BGS 10 2018 Update Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358963 - BGS 10 2017 Bowmans Best Ronald Acuna non Auto Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358964 - BGS 10 2017 Bowmans Best Ronald Acuna non Auto Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358965 - BGS 10 2018 Topps 83' Silver Pack Chrome Ronald Acuna on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358969 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Base on 5/30/2019

[lisu]

Originally Posted by pejc300

How long do you plan on waiting?

It seems pretty clear how long I plan on waiting from my original post. Until Joe posts his response.

[jstephens24]

Originally Posted by marlinsmaniac20

Some more of these here

Cert - 11358957- BGS 10 Black Label 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna Negative Refractor on 5/30/19
Cert -11358958 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358959 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto Base RC on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358960 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Update Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358961 - BGS 10 Black Label 2018 Topps Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358962 - BGS 10 2018 Update Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358963 - BGS 10 2017 Bowmans Best Ronald Acuna non Auto Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358964 - BGS 10 2017 Bowmans Best Ronald Acuna non Auto Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358965 - BGS 10 2018 Topps 83' Silver Pack Chrome Ronald Acuna on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358969 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Base on 5/30/2019

wow these popped yesterday. must be pretty disappointing only getting 2 BL

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by lisu

It seems pretty clear how long I plan on waiting from my original post. Until Joe posts his response.

That was the joke...you're going to be waiting a LONG time. He's probably on a plane to another country right now, meeting up with his friend Haiku.

[tmoore_25]

And to think, I just got into collecting PSA10 rookies and just sent off my first submission through jewcer. Maybe it's all my fault.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by marlinsmaniac20

Some more of these here

Cert - 11358957- BGS 10 Black Label 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna Negative Refractor on 5/30/19
Cert -11358958 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358959 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto Base RC on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358960 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Update Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358961 - BGS 10 Black Label 2018 Topps Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358962 - BGS 10 2018 Update Juan Soto Base on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358963 - BGS 10 2017 Bowmans Best Ronald Acuna non Auto Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358964 - BGS 10 2017 Bowmans Best Ronald Acuna non Auto Refractor on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358965 - BGS 10 2018 Topps 83' Silver Pack Chrome Ronald Acuna on 5/30/2019
Cert - 11358969 - BGS 10 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Base on 5/30/2019

Again, as a mostly PSA person, if 10s are handed out like candy does this mean 9.5s even "quads" are just junk now?

[gmarutiak]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Quoting myself, I know, but here:

Thank you.

[marterburn]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Gawd the unshaven pic looks like...me. It is not me.

I'm just here with the popcorn.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Davis]

Damn...I don't know if there's any correlation here...but about a year ago I stumbled across some interesting trends with the most iconic hockey card in the last 10 years (Connor McDavid Young Guns)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...ht=mcdavid+bgs

[fenwaykid]

This clearly diminishes the value of Black Labels in my mind...why pay extra when we know that the majority of black labels out there don't deserve it.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by jstephens24

wow these popped yesterday. must be pretty disappointing only getting 2 BL

Dang, that sucks for him. I get so frustrated when my entire order is graded BGS 10 Pristine but only 2 Black Labels.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Davis

Damn...I don't know if there's any correlation here...but about a year ago I stumbled across some interesting trends with the most iconic hockey card in the last 10 years (Connor McDavid Young Guns)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...ht=mcdavid+bgs

That's because of trimming as much as it is grade inflation.

[Agent99]

The grading companies won't care as long as they make $$. Grading = premium prices.
Where there is $$ to be made, people in the hobby will continue to submit regardless. Both grading companies have established themselves as the industry standards setting their own rules. This is how the game is played, rules have been set...

[gabballplayer14]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Again, as a mostly PSA person, if 10s are handed out like candy does this mean 9.5s even "quads" are just junk now?

10’s arent handed out like candy to normal customers...this is an EXTREME case we are dealing with here.

Look at past posts in these threads. 10 percentage is around 5% for “regular” submitters.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by gabballplayer14

10’s arent handed out like candy to normal customers...this is an EXTREME case we are dealing with here.

Look at past posts in these threads. 10 percentage is around 5% for “regular” submitters.

I think he was joking.

[jstephens24]

Originally Posted by Davis

Damn...I don't know if there's any correlation here...but about a year ago I stumbled across some interesting trends with the most iconic hockey card in the last 10 years (Connor McDavid Young Guns)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...ht=mcdavid+bgs

check out this thread....Robert Block

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295881

[fenwaykid]

Originally Posted by RookieAddict

I always thought there was something fishy about these two cards. I have no clue if anything shady happened here but figured I would post them because it is interesting. Check out the sequential serial numbers. Maybe someone had them as quad 10's before black labels became a thing I have no clue.

This is the most absurd thing I have seen. What is the value of one of these?