Message To All Trimmers: Rick Probstein is Happy to Sell Your Altered Cards

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Are you comfortable that vintage PSA 9s and 10s are legit?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Don’t really buy vintage but I’d be more comfortable buying a vintage PSA 9 or 10 then I would be buying raw.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by hxcmilkshake

Are you comfortable that vintage PSA 9s and 10s are legit?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[rcmb3220]

Probstein has never cared. To their credit at least they haven’t pretended to care like Brent.

[corndog]

I believe that the top grades of even common player cards, 8 and up, are much higher than 10% altered. I believe that those same cards that are grades of 6 and lower are mostly not altered.
So the overall percentages obviously are going to be lower when ALL cards are included.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by corndog

I believe that the top grades of even common player cards, 8 and up, are much higher than 10% altered. I believe that those same cards that are grades of 6 and lower are mostly not altered.
So the percentages obviously are going to be lower when ALL cards are included.

So take Juan Soto’s TCU PSA 10 that has like 6,000 PSA 10s. You’re telling me more than 600 are trimmed?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

So take Juan Soto’s TCU PSA 10 that has like 6,000 PSA 10s. You’re telling me more than 600 are trimmed?

Highly doubtful. A Trout update PSA 10 on the other hand is much greater than 10%.

[3124508 on COMC]

Something like high-end 90s Jordan inserts or 2017 Contenders football Autos (Mahomes, Watson) in PSA 10? There you’re looking at probably 90% trimmed or worse.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Highly doubtful. A Trout update PSA 10 on the other hand is much greater than 10%.

What makes you say that?

[corndog]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

So take Juan Soto’s TCU PSA 10 that has like 6,000 PSA 10s. You’re telling me more than 600 are trimmed?

I am referring to vintage graded cards.

I would think 600 is low for the Soto modern IMO.

312 is much more in tune with modern than me.

[superdan49]

I think the proper way of framing the question is: What percentage of graded cards were submitted by card doctors? The problem here is calculating such a figure would be limited to those names or entities that have been exposed as such.

As for Rick, I agree, he never seemed to care that he takes consignments from the dregs of the hobby. In my view, the difference between Probstein and PWCC is that Probstein is knowingly an outlet for doctored cards, whereas PWCC actively participated in the doctoring of cards. The latter is possibly criminal, whereas the former is unethical.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Something like high-end 90s Jordan inserts or 2017 Contenders football Autos (Mahomes, Watson) in PSA 10? There you’re looking at probably 90% trimmed or worse.

90% of Watson and Mahomes contenders autos that are PSA 10 are trimmed? Lol c’mon man.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

What makes you say that?

Because every sub from Burge, Jaimet, Block, etc. has 2,3,4 in it and they make tons of subs every year.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by corndog

I am referring to vintage graded cards.

I would think 600 is low for the Soto modern.

You think 600 is low? You think 1,000 of the 6,000 are trimmed?

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

90% of Watson and Mahomes contenders autos that are PSA 10 are trimmed? Lol c’mon man.

JoeAdam has common sense! seriously,c'mon man!!!!!!!!

[no10pin]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

Don’t really buy vintage but I’d be more comfortable buying a vintage PSA 9 or 10 then I would be buying raw.

You said at the beginning that you didn't want to read 100s of pages to get the answer you asked for. I totally get that, but if you had read 100s of pages here, you might not be so confident in high grade cards.

I also understand not wanting your collection to lose value, because I'm in a similar boat. I have honestly not purchased a graded card in over 6 months because of what the guys here have uncovered. That used to be ALL I bought. But now the notion of spending 10 times the value of raw for a card because it's graded PSA 10 is ridiculous.

Is it because I think 50% of graded cards are trimmed? No. It's because both PSA & BGS's reputations have been severely damaged by what has been uncovered. They are missing BLATANT trimming, not just taking 1/128th of an inch off one side. If they can't see this stuff that is visible instantly to the naked eye, then why is their opinion worth a 1000% premium?

It doesn't appear that things are slowing down much at this point, but I still think it's coming. The premiums for 10 have gone through the roof in the last few years, and it just simply can't continue at this rate. PSA and BGS aren't going away, but this hobby within a hobby where people chase grades more than the cards themselves is going to have to self-correct.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

90% of Watson and Mahomes contenders autos that are PSA 10 are trimmed? Lol c’mon man.

The incredulous tone of your wanton ignorance has its charm, I will give you that.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

90% of Watson and Mahomes contenders autos that are PSA 10 are trimmed? Lol c’mon man.

91% of PSA 10 2000 Brady Fleer Metal rookies that have sold publicly are from trimmers or their agents.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=7525

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

91% of PSA 10 2000 Brady Fleer Metal rookies that have sold publicly are from trimmers or their agents.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=7525

I don’t doubt that certain cards or certain vintage sets get hit harder than others, but to just make the statement that 10%+ of all cards are trimmed is insane. You’re telling me all the people submitting Luka, Zion, Soto and Acuna are trimming at a 10% rate? Not buying it. I guess we will agree to disagree.

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

Don’t really buy vintage but I’d be more comfortable buying a vintage PSA 9 or 10 then I would be buying raw.

I don't see the boogeyman with raw. Get a ruler. Get familiar with what you are buying. Done.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[pip]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Is 10,000 a sufficient sample size? I’d guess not.

ETS: However 10% seems very reasonable from what research I’ve done.

From my experience, I'd say that's spot on.

[21Pittsburgh58]

I have purchased 5-10 PSA 10's of modern cards total within the last 5 years and have never submitted a card for grading.

BO detectives have done an outstanding job of bring awareness to the situation, but how many vintage or modern PSA buyers are on BO? This has the potential to gain steam just like the fake memorabilia/autograph fiasco from some time back as more outlets are made aware of the situation.

I'm glad 99% of my collection is raw, but this could come to bite ALL sellers/collectors in the a$$. If people just getting into the hobby see all of this, they're not going to stay in it buying singles online.

The people collecting/storing sealed product seem to be the brilliant ones. Unfortunately, I have the obsession with having to know what's inside the box (Se7en reference) that I cannot buy and not open. Damn it!

Good luck to all of us and keep up the good fight BO detectives. Deception and criminal behavior should always be made known.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by corndog

I believe that the top grades of even common player cards, 8 and up, are much higher than 10% altered. I believe that those same cards that are grades of 6 and lower are mostly not altered.
So the overall percentages obviously are going to be lower when ALL cards are included.

Citing specific numerical grades as a means to demonstrate scope doesn’t make sense.

To establish what cards have and will continue to be altered, one has to start by looking at which altered cards will bring the greatest profit for the fraudsters, presumably in the least amount of time.

So going from a 5 to a 7 in some cases might be more profitable than going from an 8 to a 9.

Then there are times when very low grade cards might be altered just for practice or in an effort to trick graders into thinking all exemplars of a particular card look a particular way when that’s not the case.

Bottom line is that people need to think practically any card can receive a two or more grade bump at any time.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

I don’t doubt that certain cards or certain vintage sets get hit harder than others, but to just make the statement that 10%+ of all cards are trimmed is insane. You’re telling me all the people submitting Luka, Zion, Soto and Acuna are trimming at a 10% rate? Not buying it. I guess we will agree to disagree.

That’s not what I said at all. You’re choosing cards that are trimmed at lower rates and saying the overall average rate should be lower because of them. In reality, 2-5% or whatever the rate is on those cards is offset by the 90%+ rate on other cards.

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by pip

From my experience, I'd say that's spot on.

So 3 people who are in way too deep on this topic think that 10%+ of all graded cards are trimmed. I have done no research at all and I can tell you that there is a 0% chance that more than 7.8 million cards are trimmed and slipped past PSA.

[pip]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

91% of PSA 10 2000 Brady Fleer Metal rookies that have sold publicly are from trimmers or their agents.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=7525

And I'd say half of all OPC Gretzky RC's graded 8 or higher are altered in some way. 90% of all that are 9s or 10s. Key rookies have been hit the hardest.