First Buzz: 2019-20 Panini Eminence NBA cards

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I will never understand how people can say things like “Panini is raping the customer.” Doesn’t the distributor set a lot of these prices? Doesn’t irrational spending habits by degenerate gamblers help set prices? Doesn’t the giant influx of new investors help drive these prices? I don’t understand the hate for Panini, they are a business. If you don’t like what they are doing, either buy singles, buy older cards, or find a different way to express your fandom. I don’t think things are going to be changing any time soon when we see Panini Prizm football come out of the gate at $1k a box.

Who's starting Eminence at $50k?

I do buy singles so I'm good

But it'd be nice to not have to spend $700 USD for a half decent Hobby box.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I disagree

Disagree about what? You think the NBA is hurting themselves by having an exclusive license with Panini? You think you know better than the NBA?

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Disagree about what? You think the NBA is hurting themselves by having an exclusive license with Panini? You think you know better than the NBA?

What are you on about?

I'm not gonna argue over something we're not going to agree on.

When did anything come up about the NBA being hurt. Good golly.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

What are you on about?

I'm not gonna argue over something we're not going to agree on.

When did anything come up about the NBA being hurt. Good golly.

Did you even read what you quoted and disagreed with?

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I will never understand how people can say things like “Panini is raping the customer.” Doesn’t the distributor set a lot of these prices? Doesn’t irrational spending habits by degenerate gamblers help set prices? Doesn’t the giant influx of new investors help drive these prices? I don’t understand the hate for Panini, they are a business. If you don’t like what they are doing, either buy singles, buy older cards, or find a different way to express your fandom. I don’t think things are going to be changing any time soon when we see Panini Prizm football come out of the gate at $1k a box.

Panini sets the floor for FOTL and online exclusives. Not the distributors. Not the gamblers. Not the investors. We all know the majority of these products will not reach the floor. But saying that Panini isn't trying to screw over customers when they started making the floor on these dutch auctions 1.5-10 times MSRP is pretty tough to defend. If the floor on all of these was MSRP then I would say Panini is just letting the market decide where things stand. But they are not. Everyone knows regardless of the demand of a product that a higher floor more often than not equals a higher sellout price.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Panini’s two goals with the NBA license are to make themselves and the league as much money as possible. They are accomplishing that. If the NBA thought UD would make them more money, they’d still have the license.

If this is true then why does Panini continue to flush hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet by selling hobby and retail to the big 3 for MSRP? How much on just 19-20 NT basketball hobby and 2020 Prizm football did they cost themselves by selling these to the distributors for MSRP? Tens of millions.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

If this is true then why does Panini continue to flush hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet by selling hobby and retail to the big 3 for MSRP? How much on just 19-20 NT basketball hobby and 2020 Prizm football did they cost themselves by selling these to the distributors for MSRP? Tens of millions.

We all damn well know you have no idea how much Panini sells wax to distributors for.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Did you even read what you quoted and disagreed with?

Cavs is just one person who holds a grudge with UD.

If you don't want UD back, good for you. I do.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

We all damn well know you have no idea how much Panini sells wax to distributors for.

But he's correct

[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I will never understand how people can say things like “Panini is raping the customer.” Doesn’t the distributor set a lot of these prices? Doesn’t irrational spending habits by degenerate gamblers help set prices? Doesn’t the giant influx of new investors help drive these prices? I don’t understand the hate for Panini, they are a business. If you don’t like what they are doing, either buy singles, buy older cards, or find a different way to express your fandom. I don’t think things are going to be changing any time soon when we see Panini Prizm football come out of the gate at $1k a box.

don't believe distributors are the only ones to blame. But i will say that Panini is the one setting the Fotl prices.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Cavs is just one person who holds a grudge with UD.

If you don't want UD back, good for you. I do.

I never said I don’t want Upper Deck back. Of course I do. We all do. But it’s not going to happen. When the license comes up for renewal again in the next year or two, it will be the same old story.

[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Disagree about what? You think the NBA is hurting themselves by having an exclusive license with Panini? You think you know better than the NBA?

who cares about the NBA, i'm concerned with the quality of the product being put out. Having a exclusive license just gives panini more opportunity to continue to pump out more $1-$5 sticker auto's and jersey cards. First thing that pops in my head is how i just read that Kobe was possibly going to start up his own shoe company. Maybe he was thinking that maybe Nike finally needed some competition or something, who knows.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Panini sets the floor for FOTL and online exclusives. Not the distributors. Not the gamblers. Not the investors. We all know the majority of these products will not reach the floor. But saying that Panini isn't trying to screw over customers when they started making the floor on these dutch auctions 1.5-10 times MSRP is pretty tough to defend. If the floor on all of these was MSRP then I would say Panini is just letting the market decide where things stand. But they are not. Everyone knows regardless of the demand of a product that a higher floor more often than not equals a higher sellout price.

You literally have a choice NOT to buy this. Panini can’t screw you over if you don’t pay up. This isn’t a need, it’s the epitome of a want.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Who's starting Eminence at $50k?

I do buy singles so I'm good

But it'd be nice to not have to spend $700 USD for a half decent Hobby box.

Supply and demand. How many years did stores lose money on products or maybe break even? Getting sick of people acting like they are somehow victims in this. You don’t like the price, don’t buy it. Obviously others are willing to pay up and Panini, being a for profit company, is trying to maximize their profits. I don’t understand this mentality of Panini screwing people over? You act as if you have no choice to buy or not to buy. I get it, it sucks. I collect non-sports mostly and have had to deal with massive markups too. I just changed my collecting habits, stopped opening wax cold turkey, and found new hobbies to spend my time and money on.

[kyle121592]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

He doesn’t fit any of their set themes. USA, MVP, Finals, etc.

And Panini just doesn’t care. Most expensive product in the history of basketball cards, and it doesn’t have any autos or patches from the four biggest names in the hobby.

Originally Posted by mcgee2134

Same price point? NT FOTL are going for $10-$12K.

Eminence vs NT - regular versions of both Eminence is higher floor. You can rip a case of NT and get a garbage RPA and sticker autos

[Miz]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I will never understand how people can say things like “Panini is raping the customer.” Doesn’t the distributor set a lot of these prices? Doesn’t irrational spending habits by degenerate gamblers help set prices? Doesn’t the giant influx of new investors help drive these prices? I don’t understand the hate for Panini, they are a business. If you don’t like what they are doing, either buy singles, buy older cards, or find a different way to express your fandom. I don’t think things are going to be changing any time soon when we see Panini Prizm football come out of the gate at $1k a box.

Exactly. No one complains about Apple charging 4k for a laptop that cost 30 bucks to make. There isn't thousands of pages dedicated to how horrible casinos are. I really think most people on here just live in their moms basement drinking code red playing 2k and talk reckless because hating is a sickness. Panini makes amazing cards. Yeah they are expensive. Big bank takes little bank.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

We all damn well know you have no idea how much Panini sells wax to distributors for.

Huh? So you have new information, that apparently no one else has, that shows the big 3 pay more than MSRP for product through Panini? Please share.

We've read posts and even seen the proof of what some store owners can still get hobby and retail wax for from Panini. It's MSRP. I've talked to a store owner on facebook that recently told me he still can get a decent amount of product for cost. I know countless store owners have been cut out completely or cut a big percentage. If you think the big 3 are now all paying Panini anywhere near actual sale value for product versus MSRP you are delusional.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

You literally have a choice NOT to buy this. Panini can’t screw you over if you don’t pay up. This isn’t a need, it’s the epitome of a want.

If you want to be involved in the hobby what other options do you have to buy Panini products worth having? I'm someone that would waste 20+ hours a week looking for retail. It's become basically hopeless. Anything online that is worth buying is now gobbled by the bots with the 1 and only exception of Hoops Premium sets. Even Fanatics orders going forward you won't be able to get much. If you don't have a bot you'll have to have a rep or see the product and buy it within 2 minutes of a not announced release time, date, or not even knowing which website it will be on. Even with a rep, Optic Football fanatics megas my guy told me 2 total boxes per address. Not per person per address. So what other options do I have for buying Panini products? Besides paying even more than I would for FOTL or online exclusives from distributors and resellers for hobby, retail, or FOTL. I guess I could get a bot or start living at Walmart and Target. Basically the only options.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Panini sets the floor for FOTL and online exclusives. Not the distributors. Not the gamblers. Not the investors. We all know the majority of these products will not reach the floor. But saying that Panini isn't trying to screw over customers when they started making the floor on these dutch auctions 1.5-10 times MSRP is pretty tough to defend. If the floor on all of these was MSRP then I would say Panini is just letting the market decide where things stand. But they are not. Everyone knows regardless of the demand of a product that a higher floor more often than not equals a higher sellout price.

Actually the licensing arm of the NBA has been working with Panini on pricing, just as the NFL does.

Just as MLB does with Topps.

The licensing arms are heavily involved and have become more so with this booming market. Why the number of Transcedent products keeps increasing, MLB and MLBPA say collectors are scooping up $25000 a box product.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Cavs is just one person who holds a grudge with UD.

If you don't want UD back, good for you. I do.

Just because you repeat something over and over again does not make it true. There has never been a grudge, we have had a great relationship with them for decades and continue to have one.

You can also want a company back, but the PA and the League does not. You want old Upper Deck back, that company no longer exists. You do not want UD back, you want a memory.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Upper Deck needs to get back in the game and make some Luka's and LeBron auto's again. This is getting old.

LeBron wanted to be like Jordan and Simmons want to be like LeBron.

Until MJ walks away from UD I do not see LeBron leaving.

[Silverandgold]

Any word on cut historical cards inserted like last time? Was a large draw in last set.

[Tarheelsfan2012]

Originally Posted by Silverandgold

Any word on cut historical cards inserted like last time? Was a large draw in last set.

They are all presidents this time

[Tarheelsfan2012]

Just getting time to look at the checklist. Looks to be quite a few cards missing from the checklist so either somebody didn't return their cards or contract fell through, i'm gonna go with the first. Giannis Patch Autos were in the sell sheet yet has 0 autographs in the product? I think he didn't return his cards, makes sense if you look at the all star signature checklist as it's missing 32-35 and he is a 4X all star.

-I like the presidential cuts but wish there was a few basketball guys included again (Pistol, Wilt, Mikan)

- Eric Paschall should have not even been in the thought process for this product- P-E-R-I-O-D. I also know people want the vets but some of these rookies are the only reason prices are ridiculous right now.

- Need Luka and Tatum in a product like this

-Bummed there's no Team USA Patch Autos

[tmar214]

Panini just doesn't have the names to do a high end set like eminence. Maybe they could get around that if they put some effort in to the design but eminence once again looks like an end of year money grab. Somewhat of a floor because the names are decent but whats the chase thats going to get people excited to enter breaks or open at these crazy prices. Is their a single 50k card in the product. People don't want precious metal in high end cards. They want huge patch windows, game used jerseys, logomen and cards that are on a different level from other releases. If all these eminence cards had a different label their designs would easily fit in to noir, impeccable, opulence or any other high end set they release thats 1/10th the cost.

Originally Posted by mossoholic

If you want to be involved in the hobby what other options do you have to buy Panini products worth having? I'm someone that would waste 20+ hours a week looking for retail. It's become basically hopeless. Anything online that is worth buying is now gobbled by the bots with the 1 and only exception of Hoops Premium sets. Even Fanatics orders going forward you won't be able to get much. If you don't have a bot you'll have to have a rep or see the product and buy it within 2 minutes of a not announced release time, date, or not even knowing which website it will be on. Even with a rep, Optic Football fanatics megas my guy told me 2 total boxes per address. Not per person per address. So what other options do I have for buying Panini products? Besides paying even more than I would for FOTL or online exclusives from distributors and resellers for hobby, retail, or FOTL. I guess I could get a bot or start living at Walmart and Target. Basically the only options.

Do you buy any product to open or is it all for profit? Based off all your posts its to try to profit. Someone who is only looking to buy items below market value to resell higher isn't exactly a customer that has any value to a business. Especially when they can't afford to buy in bulk.

If you want to be involved in the opening wax side of the hobby you can still do it the same way as always. Accept the fact that when you open boxes you lose most of the time and enjoy it for the experience / gamble.