When Curry’s career is over will he be considered a Top 10 Player of All-Time?

[GOATcards]

There's pure 3-point shooting (I guess reflected in wide-open 3 percentage) and there's also shooting 3s for volume. Steph does a ton of the latter because he's a playmaker who can create a lot of his own shots. I most remember the highest-3p% guy Steve Kerr receiving a pass for a 3-shot from superior playmakers like MJ.

So even "best shooter ever" needs to be qualified or defined precisely. Steph gets off a lot of great looks beyond the arc through his own ball movement and creativity, few of them wide open it seems (although you might imagine more wide-open opportunities with a KD-level playmaker also on the team...).

Do the All-Star Weekend 3-point shooting contests provide any insight into this? Larry Bird was a/the top 3-point shooter in both games and the contests in his day...

[GOATcards]

And if we're going to start talking pure shooting skill how exactly could we best quantify it? Wide-open 3 shooting? Shooting percentage beyond x feet? Damian Lillard seems pretty darn good from well beyond the arc, yes?

edit: gee, looks whose names pops up

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

There's pure 3-point shooting (I guess reflected in wide-open 3 percentage) and there's also shooting 3s for volume. Steph does a ton of the latter because he's a playmaker who can create a lot of his own shots. I most remember the highest-3p% guy Steve Kerr receiving a pass for a 3-shot from superior playmakers like MJ.

So even "best shooter ever" needs to be qualified or defined precisely. Steph gets off a lot of great looks beyond the arc through his own ball movement and creativity, few of them wide open it seems (although you might imagine more wide-open opportunities with a KD-level playmaker also on the team...).

Do the All-Star Weekend 3-point shooting contests provide any insight into this? Larry Bird was a/the top 3-point shooter in both games and the contests in his day...

I've never seen anyone take and make heavily contested prayer 3s like Curry. His 15-16 season is probably the greatest shooting season of all time... Combine the difficulty of the shots, shot distance, and volume and that's gonna be near impossible to match.

I can't even believe I've got to come on here and defend Curry when I hate the Warriors. But man, put some respek on his name

[rustywest]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Reggie Miller is the greatest off-ball shooter of all time, that seems a bit more accurate.

Steph isn't an off-ball shooter and I value shot creation more than off screen shooting.

Say what

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

No, I do need you to. Pretend that I know absolutely nothing about the NBA.

If it's so obvious it should be easy for you to lay out.

You're no different than half the board slamming my analysis without actually providing anything of value from your end.

You saying it's a "laughably bad take to claim that Reggie Miller and Ray Allen changed the game" takes a blowtorch to your credibility.

Right then and there.

Before Curry, there were really two acceptable answers to who the best shooter in NBA history was. Most would have said Ray Allen, including myself. But as someone who has participated in the discussion many times over, I can concede that Reggie Miller does have a case that can be made for him.

That fact that you so brazenly and sweepingly insulted me for the mere suggestion of their influence on the NBA?

Tells me one of two things. (maybe both)

1. You're just fishing for an argument
2. You have no idea what you're talking about

Then I realized you said you're not old enough to have seen Bird play. And you go by the new analytics or your seeing eye test.

Well, there is no new analytics stats that can cover off on the bulk of Miller or Allens career, much less what it was like before they got there. So your go-to websites where you get all your opinions, can't help you. And you admit you're too young to have actually watched the game before either of them arrived. So you actually haven't the first clue about what the game was like before them. Ergo, can't begin to pretend you have an informed opinion about how they influenced it.

In other words. You're talking out of your ass.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

And if we're going to start talking pure shooting skill how exactly could we best quantify it? Wide-open 3 shooting? Shooting percentage beyond x feet? Damian Lillard seems pretty darn good from well beyond the arc, yes?

Curry for his career is 5 percentage points better than lillard for both pullup and C&S 3s.

Lillards 19-20 season was close to Curry

[amg2002]

Originally Posted by pspa123

A top 10 without Wilt Chamberlain? Uh, no.

But to the question at hand, no, Curry is not top 10. 15-20 range IMO.

Would Wilt have put up stats like he did in say, 1995? Matchups with Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ewing. No different than some that say that Steph is a product of the current game and would not be "Steph" were he put in a different Era.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

You saying it's a "laughably bad take to claim that Reggie Miller and Ray Allen changed the game" takes a blowtorch to your credibility.

Right then and there.

Before Curry, there were really two acceptable answers to who the best shooter in NBA history was. Most would have said Ray Allen, including myself. But as someone who has participated in the discussion many times over, I can concede that Reggie Miller does have a case that can be made for him.

That fact that you so brazenly and sweepingly insulted me for the mere suggestion of their influence on the NBA?

Tells me one of two things. (maybe both)

1. You're just fishing for an argument
2. You have no idea what you're talking about

Then I realized you said you're not old enough to have seen Bird play. And you go by the new analytics or your seeing eye test.

Well, there is no new analytics stats that can cover off on the bulk of Miller or Allens career, much less what it was like before they got there. So your go-to websites where you get all your opinions, can't help you. And you admit you're too young to have actually watched the game before either of them arrived. So you actually haven't the first clue about what the game was like before them. Ergo, can't begin to pretend you have an informed opinion about how they influenced it.

In other words. You're talking out of your ass.

You typed a whole lot of words without actually explaining how either one of them changed the NBA

Starting to think you can't come up with anything and this is your way of playing tough guy to deflect from the fact that the bolded is true.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

All of that self-important drivel to crap on a comment that two guys changed the game via over 5,500 combined career three point makes.


You're trying way too hard.


Edit: I bolded the meaningful part of your post. That explains everything. The guy who "goes by the seeing eye test" and isn't old enough to have seen Larry Bird play is going to tell us all about two players who are about 5 minutes younger than Larry Bird.

Good talk.

Only 9 years older than Miller and 19 years older than Ray. 5 minutes... a couple decades... who's counting?

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

You saying it's a "laughably bad take to claim that Reggie Miller and Ray Allen changed the game" takes a blowtorch to your credibility.

Right then and there.

Before Curry, there were really two acceptable answers to who the best shooter in NBA history was. Most would have said Ray Allen, including myself. But as someone who has participated in the discussion many times over, I can concede that Reggie Miller does have a case that can be made for him.

That fact that you so brazenly and sweepingly insulted me for the mere suggestion of their influence on the NBA?

Tells me one of two things. (maybe both)

1. You're just fishing for an argument
2. You have no idea what you're talking about

Then I realized you said you're not old enough to have seen Bird play. And you go by the new analytics or your seeing eye test.

Well, there is no new analytics stats that can cover off on the bulk of Miller or Allens career, much less what it was like before they got there. So your go-to websites where you get all your opinions, can't help you. And you admit you're too young to have actually watched the game before either of them arrived. So you actually haven't the first clue about what the game was like before them. Ergo, can't begin to pretend you have an informed opinion about how they influenced it.

In other words. You're talking out of your ass.

Heavy flow day, eh?

[GOATcards]

Also I second that comment about Tallboy's posts being consistently thoughtful.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

You typed a whole lot of words without actually explaining how either one of them changed the NBA

Starting to think you can't come up with anything and this is your way of playing tough guy to deflect from the fact that the bolded is true.

So, you got nothing.

I was right. It was both 1 and 2

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

So, you got nothing.

I was right. It was both A. and B.

Lots of people on here are worth engaging for real basketball discussion, and then there's you.

I've asked 3 times now for something that, according to you, is so simple and obvious yet you've failed to come up with a 1 single thing to support it. You've participated in this discussion "so many times" supposedly. You should have it memorized.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Lots of people on here are worth engaging for real basketball discussion, and then there's you.

I've asked 3 times now for something that, according to you, is so simple and obvious yet you've failed to come up with a 1 single thing to support it. You've participated in this discussion "so many times" supposedly. You should have it memorized.

[BosCardGuy]

I'll go ahead and let Steph explain it to you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvf2REAffWQ

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by amg2002

Would Wilt have put up stats like he did in say, 1995? Matchups with Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ewing. N.

Would he averaged 50/28 per game? No, probably not.

Would he clearly have been the best center in the NBA? Yes. Wilt was faster than Hakeem, stronger than Shaq, and a better leaper than all of them.

Wilt squared off nightly in a league with no bad expansion teams against: Kareem, Willis Reed, Russell, Lucas, Hayes, Thurmond, Unseld, Lanier, Bellamy. All those Centers are in the Hall of Fame. Several of them won titles.

Kareem, Thurmond, Reed, Hayes, Thurmond, Unseld, Lanier were all as ~tall as he was. Kids today act like the centers guarding Wilt were all 6'5" or PJ Tucker. Russell [or Wilt] was the best defender of alltime.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Don't know if Curry will crack the top 10 but at least he'll be ahead of Durant.

He won't be. Not in anything but 3pt%, and he's barely ahead in TS%.

Durant is ahead in Win Shares by a lot, WS/48, BPM, VORP by a lot, PPG, PER, MVP Award Shares by a lot.
He'll finish well ahead of him in scoring, rebounding, and any defensive metric there is.

[Above the Rim]

The "Wow" factor is something Curry has going for him. Similar in baseball to Mickey Mantle. Mantle hit 'em harder, hit 'em further than anyone else. Sure, a home run is a home run no matter if its a deep line drive that just clears the fence. Stats don't always differentiate the "Wow" factor - but fans sure do. No, Mantle was not the greatest player - but his popularity and card prices might tell you otherwise. Same with Nolan Ryan - no he wasn't the best pitcher, but the Wow factor with his fastball and no-hitters is what sets him apart. Sure, a ground out is an out just the same, but wouldn't you rather see a 100+ mph fastball for a called 3rd strike?

[bloodwings19]

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are great 3 point shooters, but his range of 3 point-shooting is why Curry is the best 3 point-shooter ever and should be top 10. Allen and Miller never had #30's range. If not for Curry shooting from San Jose, Lillard, Harden, or Doncic would never put that in their arsenal. And I'm not a Curry fan.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

You saying it's a "laughably bad take to claim that Reggie Miller and Ray Allen changed the game" takes a blowtorch to your credibility.

Right then and there.

Before Curry, there were really two acceptable answers to who the best shooter in NBA history was. Most would have said Ray Allen, including myself. But as someone who has participated in the discussion many times over, I can concede that Reggie Miller does have a case that can be made for him.

That fact that you so brazenly and sweepingly insulted me for the mere suggestion of their influence on the NBA?

Tells me one of two things. (maybe both)

1. You're just fishing for an argument
2. You have no idea what you're talking about

Then I realized you said you're not old enough to have seen Bird play. And you go by the new analytics or your seeing eye test.

Well, there is no new analytics stats that can cover off on the bulk of Miller or Allens career, much less what it was like before they got there. So your go-to websites where you get all your opinions, can't help you. And you admit you're too young to have actually watched the game before either of them arrived. So you actually haven't the first clue about what the game was like before them. Ergo, can't begin to pretend you have an informed opinion about how they influenced it.

In other words. You're talking out of your ass.

The best shooter in NBA history before Steph was Jerry West. Ray Allen was only a 45% shooter and is 47th all time in 3 point %. Miller shot better from 2 but was worse from 3, 64th all time. They made a lot of 3s because they were volume shooters who played for a long time. That doesn't make them the best. You still haven't answered how they changed the game in your opinion. I guess you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by bloodwings19

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are great 3 point shooters, but his range of 3 point-shooting is why Curry is the best 3 point-shooter ever and should be top 10. Allen and Miller never had #30's range. If not for Curry shooting from San Jose, Lillard, Harden, or Doncic would never put that in their arsenal. And I'm not a Curry fan.

Reggie Miller was pulling up from 30 feet when Steph was in diapers.


And none of this is a knock on Steph. He's hella entertaining and done a lot of good for the game.

No chance he's top 10 all time. I'd make an argument that he's not top 20.


But to appreciate his greatness is fully possible without the blatant disrespect being shown to his predecessors.

To act like Reggie Miller and Ray Allen didn't pave the way for a guy like Steph to even exist, is insulting to them.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by rats60

The best shooter in NBA history before Steph was Jerry West. Ray Allen was only a 45% shooter and is 47th all time in 3 point %. Miller shot better from 2 but was worse from 3, 64th all time. They made a lot of 3s because they were volume shooters who played for a long time. That doesn't make them the best. You still haven't answered how they changed the game in your opinion. I guess you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvf2REAffWQ

[BosCardGuy]

I mean... this was only in the NBA finals, so it's obvious why so few people here don't seem to remember it.

[LeonfromNC]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

I mean... this was only in the NBA finals, so it's obvious why so few people here don't seem to remember it.

I didn’t know the Pacers and Knicks played in the NBA Finals. Like is that even possible?

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by LeonfromNC

I didn’t know the Pacers and Knicks played in the NBA Finals. Like is that even possible?

Eastern Conference Finals...

But,be obtuse if that is your thing.