PITCHERS: Official Thread of the Hobby’s Outcast Position

[Gordon Bombay]

Originally Posted by gresh87

If anyone is taking requests, can we get some Roy Halladay love?

Please and thank you!

I just saw your request! Here are some more of my favorites.


1999 Finest Gold Refractor /100




1998 Bowman's Best Atomic Refractor /100




1999 Fleer Brilliants 24-Karat Gold /24




1998 Bowman Chrome Golden Anniversary Refractor /5

[gresh87]

Happy Halladays!

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by Yaga

Wowwwwwwwww so much nice stuff in here!!!

Indeed. Amazing stuff showing up here… So, since you have shown an interest in Mize, I’m wondering if you’d be interested in this orange refractor for, say, an equivalent card featuring Jesus the Lizard Rider…




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[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by Gordon Bombay

I just saw your request! Here are some more of my favorites.


1999 Finest Gold Refractor /100




1998 Bowman's Best Atomic Refractor /100




1999 Fleer Brilliants 24-Karat Gold /24




1998 Bowman Chrome Golden Anniversary Refractor /5

Fleer Brilliants 24kt Gold: the best gold refractor ever made. (With all due respect to to the 483 million different gold refractor parallels Topps has made over the years.)

As for the ‘98 Golden Anniversary refractor… Man, that is probably the ultimate parallel. A card that rare from that era, and of that brand, is pretty much impossible to beat. Except for maybe the first superfractors.

I had a Michael Cuddyer for a while, thinking it would make me rich. Good thing I abandoned ship early, but it was still really cool to own one of those back in the late ‘90s.


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[Gordon Bombay]

The 24k Gold is just amazing in hand. The gold /99 isn't bad, either, but the 24k is on another level.

The 98' Golden Anniversary refractor is definitely the cornerstone of my player collection - options are limited for someone who made their debut that late in the decade. It's just too bad that it's so boring to look at!

[cholodolo]

Thank you for creating this safe space.

I will be starting a Flickr account to participate in this thread properly.

Nothing as nice as we've seen here, but plenty of low-end parallels and autos for the Canning, Detmers, and Luzardo enthusiasts.

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Thank you for creating this safe space.

I will be starting a Flickr account to participate in this thread properly.

Nothing as nice as we've seen here, but plenty of low-end parallels and autos for the Canning, Detmers, and Luzardo enthusiasts.

Welcome.

Shall the Canning-to-Detmers transition bear some fruit.


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[eye4talent]

Speaking of Luzardo… This arms race between the Mets and the Phillies, along with the strong Braves lineup, has me questioning the wisdom of buying Marlins pitchers.

Then again, if Luzardo and Cabrera are as good as some of us think they are, maybe NL East hitters are the ones who need to worry.


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[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Welcome.

Shall the Canning-to-Detmers transition bear some fruit.

Gracias, amigo. We are still lighting candles for Griff, but will need some intervention for it to pan out.

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Speaking of Luzardo… This arms race between the Mets and the Phillies, along with the strong Braves lineup, has me questioning the wisdom of buying Marlins pitchers.

Then again, if Luzardo and Cabrera are as good as some of us think they are, maybe NL East hitters are the ones who need to worry.

I wouldn't be surprised if competitive teams come looking for Luzardo around the deadline...depending on the Marlins record, they may trade him for "future pieces", although, he is the future piece from two years ago.

I purchased the Generation Now insert /75 of his solely because I was at the game they reference on the back where he fanned 12 Angels in his 2022 debut on a cold April afternoon.

[Yaga]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Indeed. Amazing stuff showing up here… So, since you have shown an interest in Mize, I’m wondering if you’d be interested in this orange refractor for, say, an equivalent card featuring Jesus the Lizard Rider…




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Orange for orange, straight up?

[Yaga]

There are a lot of great young pitchers in the 2022 rookie class. What do you guys think of...

Gore
Lodolo
Detmers

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by Yaga

Orange for orange, straight up?

Yes. Kinda like that Vlad gold for Vlad gold we did a couple years ago.


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[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by Yaga

There are a lot of great young pitchers in the 2022 rookie class. What do you guys think of...

Gore
Lodolo
Detmers

Lodolo has me the most intrigued, but I think they’re all going to be really good for a long time—health permitting.

Gore reminds me of Cole Hamels.
Lodolo reminds me of Chris Sale.
Detmers reminds me of Scott Kazmir.

That doesn’t mean they’re going to follow the same career paths, but those were/are all good pitchers, with varying degrees of success largely dictated by health.


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[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Yaga

There are a lot of great young pitchers in the 2022 rookie class. What do you guys think of...

Gore
Lodolo
Detmers

While an Angels homer, Detmers has shown resilience and is a gamer.

If i recall correctly, months after he was drafted out of Louisville, they considered adding him to the Angels COVID "Taxi" Squad because they believed him to be "ready". He was called up in August/September of 2021 and got roughed up a few times. Then threw a no-no 8 or so months later.

If his change-up improves this offseason he could win 15 games.

The guy who has us all terrified is Sam Bachmann. Might be an injury, but he lost some juice throughout his debut season in the minors.

[Yaga]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Yes. Kinda like that Vlad gold for Vlad gold we did a couple years ago.


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Sure I can do that... I had to double check but somehow I never managed to get a Mize Stadium Chrome auto so that works out nicely

Is yours on comc as well?

[Yaga]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Lodolo has me the most intrigued, but I think they’re all going to be really good for a long time—health permitting.

Gore reminds me of Cole Hamels.
Lodolo reminds me of Chris Sale.
Detmers reminds me of Scott Kazmir.

That doesn’t mean they’re going to follow the same career paths, but those were/are all good pitchers, with varying degrees of success largely dictated by health.


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Interesting! Man there are so many future pitching stars this hobby year, it's tough to decide who to go after!

[BigSlim16]

Originally Posted by Yaga

There are a lot of great young pitchers in the 2022 rookie class. What do you guys think of...

Gore
Lodolo
Detmers

So I'll preface this by saying I'm a Reds fan so I'm probably biased, but I don't think it's crazy to say that Lodolo has top 5 SP upside.

While no one was watching the Reds last year he very quietly got better and better as the season went on. 5.52 ERA in April, 3.42 ERA in July, 4.40 ERA in August, 2.48 ERA in Sept/Oct, all while his strikeouts went up and walks went down.

There was a great Fangraphs article recently about how something clicked for him midseason (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-lod...fining-moment/). I firmly believe that he has the makings of a star

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by BigSlim16

So I'll preface this by saying I'm a Reds fan so I'm probably biased, but I don't think it's crazy to say that Lodolo has top 5 SP upside.

While no one was watching the Reds last year he very quietly got better and better as the season went on. 5.52 ERA in April, 3.42 ERA in July, 4.40 ERA in August, 2.48 ERA in Sept/Oct, all while his strikeouts went up and walks went down.

There was a great Fangraphs article recently about how something clicked for him midseason (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-lod...fining-moment/). I firmly believe that he has the makings of a star

Watching from afar (and pulling him to help my beleaguered fantasy pitching staff), I found myself a believer.

As a Reds fan, how do you view the tandem of Greene and Lodolo?


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[BigSlim16]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Watching from afar (and pulling him to help my beleaguered fantasy pitching staff), I found myself a believer.

As a Reds fan, how do you view the tandem of Greene and Lodolo?


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I think they have the full potential to be one of the best 1-2 punches in the league. However, I personally see Lodolo as the 1 and Greene as the 2 - at least until Greene can develop a third pitch. It doesn't even have to be a particularly good third pitch, just something decent to mix in.

Plus, playing at GABP certainly does not do Greene any favors whatsoever. The average launch angle against him is 20.7, compared to only 11.9 for Lodolo. I think just by the factor of playing in a hitter's paradise that Greene is always going to be plagued by HRs

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Speaking of Luzardo… This arms race between the Mets and the Phillies, along with the strong Braves lineup, has me questioning the wisdom of buying Marlins pitchers.

Then again, if Luzardo and Cabrera are as good as some of us think they are, maybe NL East hitters are the ones who need to worry.


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You should always question the wisdom of buying cards of Marlins players.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

I wouldn't be surprised if competitive teams come looking for Luzardo around the deadline...depending on the Marlins record, they may trade him for "future pieces", although, he is the future piece from two years ago.

Zero percent chance the Marlins trade Luzardo this year. We have him very cheap for five more years. Maybe in 2027 though. We trade players when they are due for their big pay days.

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by BigSlim16

I think they have the full potential to be one of the best 1-2 punches in the league. However, I personally see Lodolo as the 1 and Greene as the 2 - at least until Greene can develop a third pitch. It doesn't even have to be a particularly good third pitch, just something decent to mix in.

Plus, playing at GABP certainly does not do Greene any favors whatsoever. The average launch angle against him is 20.7, compared to only 11.9 for Lodolo. I think just by the factor of playing in a hitter's paradise that Greene is always going to be plagued by HRs

My understanding is that Greene made some significant adjustments midseason that led to his HR Allowed dropping precipitously. (23 HR in first 90 innings, 1 HR in the last 35.)

And isn’t he working on the changeup? A player his age and talent should be able to develop an effective change in due time.

Something to help counter the hitting advantage in Cincinnati is that the division rivals aren’t exactly loaded with big boppers. St. Louis is strong, but Milwaukee, Chicago and Pittsburgh aren’t exactly Atlanta, Philly and the Mets.


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[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

You should always question the wisdom of buying cards of Marlins players.

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[BigSlim16]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

My understanding is that Greene made some significant adjustments midseason that led to his HR Allowed dropping precipitously. (23 HR in first 90 innings, 1 HR in the last 35.)

And isn’t he working on the changeup? A player his age and talent should be able to develop an effective change in due time.

Something to help counter the hitting advantage in Cincinnati is that the division rivals aren’t exactly loaded with big boppers. St. Louis is strong, but Milwaukee, Chicago and Pittsburgh aren’t exactly Atlanta, Philly and the Mets.


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Oh definitely, his HR numbers got soooo much better after May. That was really encouraging

And he does have a changeup, but he only used it about 5% of the time. And when he did use it, the results weren’t exactly pretty (.364 avg, .545 SLG). But he is definitely young enough to make changes over this offseason

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

Zero percent chance the Marlins trade Luzardo this year. We have him very cheap for five more years. Maybe in 2027 though. We trade players when they are due for their big pay days.

Didn't necessarily say they would trade him -- just that competitive teams will be asking about him come June/July should he pitch as expected. They'd be dumb not to inquire.

Maybe the Marlins don't want to trade him, and he grew up in Florida, but he may want to leave if the right club/situation was offered.