Who is the best CENTER? Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Bill Russell ?

[amazingpacks]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Hence my point.

Put Dwight Howard up against Gordon Hayward, and lets see how well he does.

Wilt would be playing against Miles Plumlee tonight.

Wilt,Russell and to OG's would be playing these NEW ERA Stronger,taller centers the rest of the year. (i think wilt might average 55 in this era).

Nikola Pekovic
Marcin Gortat
Roy Hibbert
Enes Kanter
Jonas Valanciunas
DeAndre Jordan
Robin Lopez
Timofey Mozgov
Andrew Bogut
Samuel Dalembert
Vitor Faverani
Bismack Biyombo
Steven Adams
Kendrick Perkins
Ian Mahinmi
Ryan Hollins
Nazr Mohammed


But in all fairness. your right. Wilt wouldnt average 50 ppg in this era, probably only 48 or so. he wouldnt score a 100 in this era, more like a high of 94. Wouldnt get paid $50,000 BUT $20,000,000 a year instead. Due to STD's , no 20,000 girls but atleast a few thousand. LOLOLOLO

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

So you don't concede that Shaq & Hakeem played during an era with far more low post competition than Wilt & Russell?

The evidence is right in front of you but you refuse to look at it.

Wilt was regularly matched against white guys in the 6'7-6'9 range, and yes their ethnicity is relevant. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that caucasians are for the most part less athletic than african americans.

Was Wilt a great player? IMO yes, but his inflated stats at the beginning of his career are a product of the competition (or lack of) as much as his own ability.

There was more for sure. But to say, like you did, that wilt was the only 7 footer in the league is not true. He wasn't a foot taller than everyone he played against. And once again, why did those other 7 footers not make near the mark wilt did? He was taller then most, but he was also more agile, stronger, and simply better at basketball. Yes his stats were inflated, but they wouldn't have been paltry in a league with a few more bigs. What did his size have to do with his remarkable assist totals?

[amazingpacks]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

For the 5000th time, I'm not discrediting him. I just haven't seen anyone here show much knowledge on the subject.

You claimed that Wilt played during a time when there were plenty of other 7 footers, which I already debunked with actual facts.

His stats were inflated by being in a mostly white NBA comprised of shorter, weaker players (especially during the years he was most dominant). His stiffest competition was Bill Russell, who was 3 inches shorter and 70 Lbs lighter.

Bwhahaha, I think MJ's stats is inflated, if Bird,Magic,Russell,Dr. J, Jabbar,West,Wilt,and Lebron all was drafted in the same year. MJ would not have won 6 titles and have less scoring titles, less mvps,less points,etc.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by amazingpacks

Bwhahaha, I think MJ's stats is inflated, if Bird,Magic,Russell,Dr. J, Jabbar,West,Wilt,and Lebron all was drafted in the same year. MJ would not have won 6 titles and have less scoring titles, less mvps,less points,etc.

I think lebrons stats are inflated because he's the only one with his size, strength, and quickness.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Knicker_Please

There was more for sure. But to say, like you did, that wilt was the only 7 footer in the league is not true. He wasn't a foot taller than everyone he played against. And once again, why did those other 7 footers not make near the mark wilt did? He was taller then most, but he was also more agile, stronger, and simply better at basketball. Yes his stats were inflated, but they wouldn't have been paltry in a league with a few more bigs. What did his size have to do with his remarkable assist totals?

I have never said this. Why do you continue to act as though I'm saying Wilt is a bum? I think he's one of the best centers of all time.

The only detractions I have against him are
1) inflated stats due to weak competition, and being a notorious stat chaser.
2) 2 Championships

I also have a problem with so many uneducated people, such as amazingpacks, who believe that Wilt is the best center yet have shown no knowledge of Wilt Chamberlain other than reading his wikipedia page.

[amazingpacks]

Originally Posted by Knicker_Please

I think lebrons stats are inflated because he's the only one with his size, strength, and quickness.

Shaqs stats are inflated cause he was 50 lbs bigger then everyone. If John stockton was Afro-American he would have 20,000 assits instead of 15,000. If steve nash was born in USA, he would be taller and score 40 a game.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by amazingpacks

Shaqs stats are inflated cause he was 50 lbs bigger then everyone. If John stockton was Afro-American he would have 20,000 assits instead of 15,000. If steve nash was born in USA, he would be taller and score 40 a game.

If you weren't a complete moron, I'd gladly have a discussion with you.

[amazingpacks]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

If you weren't a complete moron, I'd gladly have a discussion with you.

I see you got a pic of Barry Sanders(yes i think Barry Sanders is the Greatest RB ever, Period). Did you know that when he was playing, that he was more of a loner at nights? He would go out like all the players did ,party up, but he would rather go alone and hope nobody noticed him. Very casual dresser, jeans and button down shirt.

Now, if you think i dont know athletes. i will just do this again .....................................................................................................................................LOL.

Magic Johnson was like everyone thinks . Party hard, checking out all the chicks and be out all night with the other players.

Shaq, is really a nice person. Very social and when out at night, easy to talk too.

long list of info on great players.

LOLOLOLOLOLO.... HOHOHOHOHOHOHOH Merry Christmas.

just relax. have fun. it is the internet. NO DISCUSSION NEEDED. your post are just funny.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

I have never said this. Why do you continue to act as though I'm saying Wilt is a bum? I think he's one of the best centers of all time.

The only detractions I have against him are
1) inflated stats due to weak competition, and being a notorious stat chaser.
2) 2 Championships

I also have a problem with so many uneducated people, such as amazingpacks, who believe that Wilt is the best center yet have shown no knowledge of Wilt Chamberlain other than reading his wikipedia page.

the same could be said about bill russell, who started his career even earlier, so would have had even less competition. he was 2 inches shorter than wilt, but a freak athlete himself, which is why he dominated.

and come on, you can't go by championships. you don't seem dumb, so you must not actually believe that the amount of championships a player has dictates how great of an individual player he was. he has the same amount as hakeem, because he was going up against ridiculous teams. he lost to those celtics teams that were vastly better. he lost to the knicks twice, that had just a ludicrous roster. if you put wilt with walt frazier, earl monroe, dave debusschere, bill bradley, jerry lucas, dick barnett, coached by red holzman, the man would have more rings. if you switched him with bill russell, would russell still have 11 rings to wilt's 2?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

There is so much lore and myth surrounding Wilt Chamberlain.
Every year the legend builds.

He was able to dunk from behind the free throw line without leaving the half circle?
Anybody with half a brain can plainly see that is an exaggeration.

Do you know what evidence exists of Wilt's 100 point game? The picture of him holding up that piece of paper with "100" written on it. There is no footage, just a single picture of him holding up a piece of paper. That is a tribute to how little we know about Wilt Chamberlain the basketball player.

I have no doubt he was a great player, but it amazes me that people spout off word of mouth rumors that they read on wikipedia as if they have a first hand account of Wilt's greatness.

I saw Wilt and all the guys on this list. IMO, Wilt is underrated. There is some truth to some of what you posted, but look at guys that were in the NBA in 1967 and 1972 when Wilt's teams dominated. To me that is more an indication of his greatness than inflated stats from his early years. To truely appriciate Wilt, you really had to see him play. I posted his stats head to head with Russell and IMO, Bill was the closest to Wilt. If height was such a big deal, then why weren't Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley superstars? It was more Wilt's strength and athleticism that made him special.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by rats60

I saw Wilt and all the guys on this list. IMO, Wilt is underrated. There is some truth to some of what you posted, but look at guys that were in the NBA in 1967 and 1972 when Wilt's teams dominated. To me that is more an indication of his greatness than inflated stats from his early years. To truely appriciate Wilt, you really had to see him play. I posted his stats head to head with Russell and IMO, Bill was the closest to Wilt. If height was such a big deal, then why weren't Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley superstars? It was more Wilt's strength and athleticism that made him special.

listen to this man ^^^^^^^^^

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Knicker_Please

the same could be said about bill russell, who started his career even earlier, so would have had even less competition. he was 2 inches shorter than wilt, but a freak athlete himself, which is why he dominated.

and come on, you can't go by championships. you don't seem dumb, so you must not actually believe that the amount of championships a player has dictates how great of an individual player he was. he has the same amount as hakeem, because he was going up against ridiculous teams. he lost to those celtics teams that were vastly better. he lost to the knicks twice, that had just a ludicrous roster. if you put wilt with walt frazier, earl monroe, dave debusschere, bill bradley, jerry lucas, dick barnett, coached by red holzman, the man would have more rings. if you switched him with bill russell, would russell still have 11 rings to wilt's 2?

Herm Edwards put it perfectly "You play to win the game."
It's simplistic on the surface, but yes I give a lot of credit to championships over individual statistics.
I believe that Russell was less talented than Wilt, but gave more effort and had a stronger desire to win big games. When you look at individual accounts of the two, it seems that Russell was the ultimate team player whereas Wilt was the antithesis to this and cared mostly about individual accolades in his early career.
It's not as though Russell had a few more championships: He had 11 vs 2. That is an absurd disparity that says just as much about Wilt Chamberlain as it does Bill Russell.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by rats60

I saw Wilt and all the guys on this list. IMO, Wilt is underrated. There is some truth to some of what you posted, but look at guys that were in the NBA in 1967 and 1972 when Wilt's teams dominated. To me that is more an indication of his greatness than inflated stats from his early years. To truely appriciate Wilt, you really had to see him play. I posted his stats head to head with Russell and IMO, Bill was the closest to Wilt. If height was such a big deal, then why weren't Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley superstars? It was more Wilt's strength and athleticism that made him special.

He's winning this poll by a landslide and is widely considered the greatest center of all time.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Herm Edwards put it perfectly "You play to win the game."
It's simplistic on the surface, but yes I give a lot of credit to championships over individual statistics.
I believe that Russell was less talented than Wilt, but gave more effort and had a stronger desire to win big games. When you look at individual accounts of the two, it seems that Russell was the ultimate team player whereas Wilt was the antithesis to this and cared mostly about individual accolades in his early career.
It's not as though Russell had a few more championships: He had 11 vs 2. That is an absurd disparity that says just as much about Wilt Chamberlain as it does Bill Russell.

so if you put wilt on russells teams and vice versa, russell would still have 11 and wilt 2?

come on. winning championships is a team thing, not an individual thing. russell played on some of the greatest teams of all time, and wilt lost to some of the greatest teams of all time. its so skewed it's ridiculous.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Knicker_Please

so if you put wilt on russells teams and vice versa, russell would still have 11 and wilt 2?

come on. winning championships is a team thing, not an individual thing. russell played on some of the greatest teams of all time, and wilt lost to some of the greatest teams of all time. its so skewed it's ridiculous.

In all honesty, what makes Wilt Chamberlain better than anyone else on this list of centers?

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

In all honesty, what makes Wilt Chamberlain better than anyone else on this list of centers?

you didn't answer my question! answer mine and i'll answer yours

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Knicker_Please

so if you put wilt on russells teams and vice versa, russell would still have 11 and wilt 2?

come on. winning championships is a team thing, not an individual thing. russell played on some of the greatest teams of all time, and wilt lost to some of the greatest teams of all time. its so skewed it's ridiculous.

Its hypothetical nonsense but I highly doubt Wilt would have won 11 championships if he were in Boston instead of Russell. Probably more than 2 championships but who knows? He may have been a team cancer and alienated some of the Celtic greats, the way he did on other teams.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Its hypothetical nonsense but I highly doubt Wilt would have won 11 championships if he were in Boston instead of Russell. Probably more than 2 championships but who knows? He may have been a team cancer and alienated some of the Celtic greats, the way he did on other teams.

haha ok. well what makes him better is that he was stronger, and more agile than most of them. he had all 3, size, strength, and agility.

lets just end this tho, it's not going anywhere lol.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Knicker_Please

haha ok. well what makes him better is that he was stronger, and more agile than most of them. he had all 3, size, strength, and agility.

lets just end this tho, it's not going anywhere lol.

So he was the most athletic. I guess that's one way of measuring the greatest basketball players.

You must think that Deandre Jordan & Javale Mcgee are the two best centers in the league right now.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

So he was the most athletic. I guess that's one way of measuring the greatest basketball players.

You must think that Deandre Jordan & Javale Mcgee are the two best centers in the league right now.

he also knew how to use his athleticism. you're making my point for me referencing the most athletic and tall players in the league today, yet they're no where near the best. my point from the start has been it's not just about his height. i was just answering your question in referencing the difference between him and the other centers.

[Quigley24]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

So he was the most athletic. I guess that's one way of measuring the greatest basketball players.

You must think that Deandre Jordan & Javale Mcgee are the two best centers in the league right now.

Tremendous logic. Ignore Jordan having no skill and Mcgee having little coordination and no basketball IQ. Obviously it's not just one thing that makes a player great.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Quigley24

Tremendous logic. Ignore Jordan having no skill and Mcgee having little coordination and no basketball IQ. Obviously it's not just one thing that makes a player great.

i don't understand what point he was trying to make with that, because he's spent the past day telling me that wilt was only dominant because of his size and athleticism, yet points to players who aren't dominant yet they have overwhelming size and athleticism lol. he asked me what made wilt better than those other centers... and i think the thing that if anything puts him over the top from those guys is that he had a more complete combination of size, strength and agility than those guys.

[Jopeal]

Again I ask, what made Wilt better than any other center on this list?

You guys never draw any comparisons to other great centers.

[Knicker_Please]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Again I ask, what made Wilt better than any other center on this list?

You guys never draw any comparisons to other great centers.

i already answered that question. twice. he had a more complete package of size, strength, agility, and skill. that doesn't necessarily make him better, it's hard to compare these guys. but if anything puts him over the top from those guys, it's the combination of the things i mentioned above.

[Jopeal]

You continue to go around in circles but I have yet to hear one legitimate argument that Wilt was better than any one of Kareem, Russell, Hakeem, or Shaq nevermind all of them.