Who do you think will be NL MVP? - Page 7

JustinVerlander07 · 09-10-2015, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDomePatrolx

Well then lets make it the MVTM award right? Most valuable teammate award.

You didn't answwer my question, bud.

If a guy isn't valuable enough to win the award because his teammates didn't perform, then he's not valuable enough to be on the ballot at all, no?

After all, no playoffs = no value it'd appear.

xDomePatrolx · 09-10-2015, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

You didn't answwer my question, bud.

If a guy isn't valuable enough to win the award because his teammates didn't perform, then he's not valuable enough to be on the ballot at all, no?

After all, no playoffs = no value it'd appear.

I did answer your question , I said Harper is on top and will most likely win. Again Im am saying he is NOT a shoo in.

JMPKCP · 09-10-2015, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

mlb.com just posted an article by Richard Justice about the possibility of Cespedes getting the MVP:

Justice: Yoenis' Cespedes impact on Mets | MLB.com

Yup, that idiotic article was summed up in the first line:

"Sure, it's nuts to think that new Mets outfielder Yoenis Cespedes could win the National League Most Valuable Player Award."

HeritageKing · 09-10-2015, 08:49 PM

Rizzo

10 char

death2redemptions · 09-10-2015, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMPKCP

Yup, that idiotic article was summed up in the first line:

"Sure, it's nuts to think that new Mets outfielder Yoenis Cespedes could win the National League Most Valuable Player Award."

Richard Justice is responsible for many more idiotic articles in his times, especially when pertaining to the Braves (called them legit contenders midseason).

JMPKCP · 09-10-2015, 10:26 PM

Maybe there is a minor league hockey team called the Braves that he confused them with???

Metsfan1121 · 09-10-2015, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndygaard

Peoples rationale for what MVP means is getting more and more ridiculous every year. First people were all about the WAR bs. How does one determine how valuable a player is to their team? This thing called stats.

You do realize WAR is a stat, correct?

dhcollecting · 09-14-2015, 11:52 PM

well this is getting messy now. Sure Harpers stats are great but his team is getting worse as the season rolls on! He may be too young and immature to be the leader in that clubhouse.

Now Cespedes, there is no question he has ignited that offense and the Mets look like a real playoff threat! Now I don't think he will win but if somehow he did, I wouldn't be upset.

PejaD · 09-15-2015, 01:49 AM

Cespedes has no chance of winning the MVP, but will steal votes away from contenders. I think the Cespedes' effect hurts Harper the most.

If Arrieta or Greinke finish strong, they could take the MVP and CY.

JustinVerlander07 · 09-15-2015, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcollecting

well this is getting messy now. Sure Harpers stats are great but his team is getting worse as the season rolls on! He may be too young and immature to be the leader in that clubhouse.

Now Cespedes, there is no question he has ignited that offense and the Mets look like a real playoff threat! Now I don't think he will win but if somehow he did, I wouldn't be upset.

If you don't have Harper winning the award, where would you place him on your ballot?

speedyjg13 · 09-15-2015, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

If you don't have Harper winning the award, where would you place him on your ballot?

I have no clue who will win it but if Harper doesn't win it, the boards will go crazy. Collectors are expecting him to win it. If someone else wins it, collectors will be left with a "now what" feeling.

NickM · 09-15-2015, 01:17 PM

Harper and Greinke are the only 2 reasonable choices.

houstonrules51 · 09-15-2015, 01:38 PM

I'd make the case for Grienke simply because he was there when Clayton was struggling and the Dodgers were struggling. He was reliable and great when the Dodgers needed somebody to carry them through an underperforming and injured rotation.

The Nationals are embarrassing and Harper's performance, while great on the field, has not proven valuable to his team. I would argue his attitude is a contributing factor to the team's poor performance. He is not the only whiner on the team but he is one of the leaders of the crying brigade.

All that being said, I don't think Greinke will actually win.

Doublexthebeast · 09-15-2015, 01:51 PM

Harper has had a great season but when your team was the odds on favorite to win it all by a ton of writers and analysts and you finish 10+ games out of 1st..............come on. I just don't see how he wins it in that situation. Might as well give it to Goldy on a losing team or Arenado who likely will win 2/3rds of the National League Triple Crown. Give it to a player on a winning team and eliminate the other players that play for losing teams. That is what Silver Slugger awards are for.

Andrew Jones · 09-15-2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houstonrules51

I'd make the case for Grienke simply because he was there when Clayton was struggling and the Dodgers were struggling. He was reliable and great when the Dodgers needed somebody to carry them through an underperforming and injured rotation.

The Nationals are embarrassing and Harper's performance, while great on the field, has not proven valuable to his team. I would argue his attitude is a contributing factor to the team's poor performance. He is not the only whiner on the team but he is one of the leaders of the crying brigade.

All that being said, I don't think Greinke will actually win.

So you don't believe Harper's performance has improved the team's record?

calculusdork · 09-15-2015, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

So you don't believe Harper's performance has improved the team's record?

Andrew Jones · 09-15-2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Only if he meant it literally. Not Floridian computer literally, but actual literally.

If he meant it more in the sense that Harper's performance needs to be heavily discounted or ignored outright given his team impersonating a vacuum for most of the season, that becomes problematic given past winners of the award who were on losing/non-playoff teams. It also would seem to suggest that anyone on a playoff team is inherently more valuable than everyone on a losing/non-playoff team. I don't find Yasmani Grandal to be more valuable than Bryce Harper or Mike Moustakas to be more valuable than Mike Trout simply because of the overall performance of their teams.

death2redemptions · 09-15-2015, 02:24 PM

No Harper and the Nationals would still be in 2nd place...but they would be a lot closer to 3rd place.

rats60 · 09-15-2015, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeritageKing

Rizzo

10 char

Andrew McCutchen

He has a better oWAR and his team is going to finish 1st not 3rd in division/league. Harper is probably going to get it, but I like guys who turn it on when the race heats up. Arrieta is my CY winner for that same reason.

jmscoggin · 09-15-2015, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublexthebeast

Harper has had a great season but when your team was the odds on favorite to win it all by a ton of writers and analysts and you finish 10+ games out of 1st..............come on. I just don't see how he wins it in that situation. Might as well give it to Goldy on a losing team or Arenado who likely will win 2/3rds of the National League Triple Crown. Give it to a player on a winning team and eliminate the other players that play for losing teams. That is what Silver Slugger awards are for.

I hate, hate, hate, hate this argument. You could put Babe Ruth in his prime on some of this years teams and they still wouldn't have a chance in hell to contend. Baseball is not a one man sport which has been proven over and over and over by big money teams that try to buy titles. In the NBA it is a valid argument, in MLB not so much.

Harper has been by far the best offensive player in the NL this year and just because many of his teammates have crapped the bed, doesn't mean that his contributions haven't been valuable. Just imagine what a laughingstock the Nationals would be without him.

calculusdork · 09-15-2015, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Andrew McCutchen

He has a better oWAR and his team is going to finish 1st not 3rd in division/league. Harper is probably going to get it, but I like guys who turn it on when the race heats up. Arrieta is my CY winner for that same reason.

I do actually think Arrieta may win the Cy Young because of his August/Sept performance and for the no-hitter.

exitmusicblue · 09-15-2015, 03:07 PM

Naysayers = funny bunnies. Harper is having a better season -- spanning the major stats -- than any one of Trout's best seasons.

Let that sink in, then say something hilarious again.

caflisch78 · 09-15-2015, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitmusicblue

Naysayers = funny bunnies. Harper is having a better season -- spanning the major stats -- than any one of Trout's best seasons.

Let that sink in, then say something hilarious again.

Please use statistics to portray your angle here for us dummies.

death2redemptions · 09-15-2015, 03:51 PM

Harper's biggest competition will be from the star position players who are on contending teams:

McCutchen
Rizzo
Cespedes (maybe...not sure how voters will feel about him being on an AL team most of the season)

Personally I believe McCutchen makes the most compelling case. Rizzo has more home runs & stolen bases but McCutchen is leading in just about every other category (avg, OBP, RBI, runs, OPS).

I don't believe McCutchen or Rizzo have been nearly as good as Harper but they did help get their teams to the playoffs and that will be on the voters mind. I still think Harper is the front runner because his stats have been significantly better than any other position player in the NL.

SportsAutoFreak · 09-15-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by death2redemptions

Harper's biggest competition will be from the star position players who are on contending teams:

McCutchen
Rizzo
Cespedes (maybe...not sure how voters will feel about him being on an AL team most of the season)

Personally I believe McCutchen makes the most compelling case. Rizzo has more home runs & stolen bases but McCutchen is leading in just about every other category (avg, OBP, RBI, runs, OPS).

I don't believe McCutchen or Rizzo have been nearly as good as Harper but they did help get their teams to the playoffs and that will be on the voters mind. I still think Harper is the front runner because his stats have been significantly better than any other position player in the NL.

Be careful on that. Rizzo might not be making the playoffs the way his team is going.

09-10-2015, 08:49 PM	#154
HeritageKing Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,630	Rizzo 10 char __________________ #2 Topps Heritage Autograph Collector

09-14-2015, 11:52 PM	#158
dhcollecting Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,497 dhsportscards	well this is getting messy now. Sure Harpers stats are great but his team is getting worse as the season rolls on! He may be too young and immature to be the leader in that clubhouse. Now Cespedes, there is no question he has ignited that offense and the Mets look like a real playoff threat! Now I don't think he will win but if somehow he did, I wouldn't be upset. __________________ Collecting Tony Gwynn High End and Bat Barrel and Logoman cards

09-15-2015, 01:17 PM	#162
NickM Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,353	Harper and Greinke are the only 2 reasonable choices. __________________ 1st superfractor hit by RK Collectibles. 2014 Bowman Chrome Mini BB Chris Kohler. "What do we want?" "Time travel." "And when do we want it?" "It's irrelevant."

09-15-2015, 01:38 PM	#163
houstonrules51 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,556 houst-ji	I'd make the case for Grienke simply because he was there when Clayton was struggling and the Dodgers were struggling. He was reliable and great when the Dodgers needed somebody to carry them through an underperforming and injured rotation. The Nationals are embarrassing and Harper's performance, while great on the field, has not proven valuable to his team. I would argue his attitude is a contributing factor to the team's poor performance. He is not the only whiner on the team but he is one of the leaders of the crying brigade. All that being said, I don't think Greinke will actually win. __________________ DODGERS ALL THE WAY!!! Looking to Buy 15 Bowman Jordan Luplow Red/Orange/Gold Autos!

09-15-2015, 01:51 PM	#164
Doublexthebeast Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 8,806	Harper has had a great season but when your team was the odds on favorite to win it all by a ton of writers and analysts and you finish 10+ games out of 1st..............come on. I just don't see how he wins it in that situation. Might as well give it to Goldy on a losing team or Arenado who likely will win 2/3rds of the National League Triple Crown. Give it to a player on a winning team and eliminate the other players that play for losing teams. That is what Silver Slugger awards are for. Last edited by Doublexthebeast; 09-15-2015 at 01:54 PM.

09-10-2015, 10:26 PM	#156
JMPKCP Banned Join Date: May 2014 Location: Wine country Posts: 4,673	Maybe there is a minor league hockey team called the Braves that he confused them with???

09-15-2015, 01:49 AM	#159
PejaD Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 4,071	Cespedes has no chance of winning the MVP, but will steal votes away from contenders. I think the Cespedes' effect hurts Harper the most. If Arrieta or Greinke finish strong, they could take the MVP and CY.

09-15-2015, 02:24 PM	#168
death2redemptions Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Creeping in mama's cellar Posts: 59,303 ddavisaz	No Harper and the Nationals would still be in 2nd place...but they would be a lot closer to 3rd place.

09-15-2015, 03:07 PM	#172
exitmusicblue Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 14,027	Naysayers = funny bunnies. Harper is having a better season -- spanning the major stats -- than any one of Trout's best seasons. Let that sink in, then say something hilarious again.

09-15-2015, 03:51 PM	#174
death2redemptions Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Creeping in mama's cellar Posts: 59,303 ddavisaz	Harper's biggest competition will be from the star position players who are on contending teams: McCutchen Rizzo Cespedes (maybe...not sure how voters will feel about him being on an AL team most of the season) Personally I believe McCutchen makes the most compelling case. Rizzo has more home runs & stolen bases but McCutchen is leading in just about every other category (avg, OBP, RBI, runs, OPS). I don't believe McCutchen or Rizzo have been nearly as good as Harper but they did help get their teams to the playoffs and that will be on the voters mind. I still think Harper is the front runner because his stats have been significantly better than any other position player in the NL.