The Zion 'Fatboi' Williamson Career LDL/HDL Tracker | BBW Appreciation Megathread.

[StrongandFree86]

https://twitter.com/MasonGinsberg/st...69025988227072

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by StrongandFree86

https://twitter.com/MasonGinsberg/st...69025988227072

Impressive! Yet people here want him to spend more time developing his jumper? He is incredible around the basket. Doesn't need anything else.

I'm convinced people would want Shaq to develop a jumper if he was a rookie today.

[Spacemanspif]

2 years from now there’s going to be like 4 players who matter from this class. You can pencil in Zion and Ja right now. The hot takes crowd pumping money into slabbed bass of Keldon Johnson and Collin Sexton and whoever else drops 25 this week will be back. 10% of them will be right with their long odds picks, the rest will pretend like they never badmouthed Zion or squandered thousands on those prospects.

Btw saw this clip of JJ Redick talking about Z.

https://youtu.be/QGSSIP1QDdE

To me one of the clearest indicators of how good a player will be is listening to other players talk about them (except LeBron, he’ll pump anyone to get them paid). Once they get some proper pieces around big boi, I fully expect him to reach a point where teams have to design specific defenses against him like Giannis

[k13]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

2 years from now there’s going to be like 4 players who matter from this class. You can pencil in Zion and Ja right now. The hot takes crowd pumping money into slabbed bass of Keldon Johnson and Collin Sexton and whoever else drops 25 this week will be back. 10% of them will be right with their long odds picks, the rest will pretend like they never badmouthed Zion or squandered thousands on those prospects.

Btw saw this clip of JJ Redick talking about Z.

https://youtu.be/QGSSIP1QDdE

To me one of the clearest indicators of how good a player will be is listening to other players talk about them (except LeBron, he’ll pump anyone to get them paid). Once they get some proper pieces around big boi, I fully expect him to reach a point where teams have to design specific defenses against him like Giannis

Except one of those players can turn into kwahi leonard or something.

Zion could just be elton brand minus the rebounding.

[ninjacookies]

It must be absolutely gut wrenching that the hockey sub is so lonely.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

It must be absolutely gut wrenching that the hockey sub is so lonely.

"Zion sucks..hes garbage..nba is garbage"

"Anyone seen any Hoops Premium stocks in Canada?"

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Chris P

"Zion sucks..hes garbage..nba is garbage"

"Anyone seen any Hoops Premium stocks in Canada?"

Spot. On.




Obviously Canuckboi degen'ing over Walmart restocks for all that Terance Davis and RJ Barrett mojo.


Not McDavid Hull Trudeau HOF? INVEST.

[Filthy]

Love Zion, and think he is a one of a kind talent. I have a few key Zion cards, so hope he does well. Its weird to me, to see a lot of the negative comments in this thread, and most seem to either downplay/discount what he's already done....or try to say that he's not great, unless he lives up to some crazy unfair expectation.

Here is my one and only take, on his future collectibilty/value. His skillset and athletisicm is IMO similar to what Blake Griffin was, when he came into the league. (Zion is a bigger widebody, and a touch more bouncy....but Griffin was a freak athlete.) Similar to Zion, Griffin was only really known for his powerful dunks, and inside game. He had ZERO shooting ability, coming into the league (Just like Zion) He continued to get better every year, and became a good shooter. He has been an All Star in 5 of his 10 seasons in the NBA, for most of his career has basically been an automatic 20 points/10 rebounds guy. (20+ games with 40+ points.) Yet, despite putting up crazy stat lines, and spending half of his career in a large market team in L.A. he gets ZERO HOBBY LOVE.

So, what is Zion going to need to do? I'm guessing that his stat line will be somewhat similar to Blake Griffins. Its pretty clear he's already a guy that can put 20-25 every night. Yet, He's playing in a small market city, that has not yet been able to produce a playoff/or championship quality team since......like ever? Hes probably a guy that will need to make a move in free agency at some point, to be on a championship calibur team. But will he have to join another Superstar...or will he be the superstar?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Filthy

Love Zion, and think he is a one of a kind talent. I have a few key Zion cards, so hope he does well. Its weird to me, to see a lot of the negative comments in this thread, and most seem to either downplay/discount what he's already done....or try to say that he's not great, unless he lives up to some crazy unfair expectation.

Here is my one and only take, on his future collectibilty/value. His skillset and athletisicm is IMO similar to what Blake Griffin was, when he came into the league. (Zion is a bigger widebody, and a touch more bouncy....but Griffin was a freak athlete.) Similar to Zion, Griffin was only really known for his powerful dunks, and inside game. He had ZERO shooting ability, coming into the league (Just like Zion) He continued to get better every year, and became a good shooter. He has been an All Star in 5 of his 10 seasons in the NBA, for most of his career has basically been an automatic 20 points/10 rebounds guy. (20+ games with 40+ points.) Yet, dispite spending half of his career in a large market team in L.A. he gets ZERO hobby love.

So, what is Zion going to need to do? I'm guessing that his stat line will be somewhat similar to Blake Griffins. Its pretty clear he's already a guy that can put 20-25 every night. Yet, He's playing in a small market city, that has not yet been able to produce a playoff/or championship quality team since......like ever? Hes probably a guy that will need to make a move in free agency at some point, to be on a championship calibur team. But will he have to join another Superstar...or will he be the superstar?
pelicans.

The two major components that worked against Blake were the following:

1) he regressed statistically after his rookie year 22->20-->18ppg. Not showing any statistical progression is a death sentence for hobby values, as there's a small early window. And he never recovered.

2) his above the rim highlights almost came to a screeching halt after his Vince Carter-esque rookie campaign

I'd say the more apt comparison will probably be AD. Both #1 overall picks, both played for the same franchise...and thus far, both seem to have suffered from questionable franchise decisions.

It's still way to call it with Zion, but I am hoping with Griffin's hire that the team will eventually turn it around sooner rather than later. 38 games in though. People need to chill and ask themselves what their demigods were doing at the same stage in their careers. My guess is probably not winning conference titles and mvp's.

[k13]

Blake was doing crazy dunks for a few years not just rookie year.
His 4th year he had his best year at the time so not fading yet.

Obviously you get old and athleticism is lost.
That's the end.

You better accomplish something by then.

Jordan/Kobe were terrible past their prime.
Complete trash.

Amazingly Blake had his best ppg year just two years ago but by that time your time in the hobby has faded. Too late.

This will happen to 99.9% of players.

[ninjacookies]

Reading is fundamental.

Blake fell off from his rookie year to his 3rd year.

A 4th year resurgence was inconsequential. The hobby moved on by then. They want to see sustained progression during those earliest years.



Baby steps. Follow me here.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Reading is fundamental.

Blake fell off from his rookie year to his 3rd year.

A 4th year resurgence was inconsequential. The hobby moved on by then. They want to see sustained progression during those earliest years.



Baby steps. Follow me here.

I understand you weren't directly responding to my post.....

But in originally bringing up Blake Griffin, I personally wasn't trying to compare every aspect of Griffins career to the possible projectory of Zion's, but was trying to note the similarity in skillset, common negative misconceptions in regards to what they could, or couldn't do, and statlines. So, to me....he seemed to be the most comparible. Nothing more.

However, Griffin was an All-Star his 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th season in the league. So despite his improvement, development, and continued success, he was STILL crapped on in the hobby World. What is Zion going to have to do? He is just a rookie, so there is no ceiling to what he can accomplish....but I worry that no matter what he does....that he will still be unfairly judged/criticized.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Impressive! Yet people here want him to spend more time developing his jumper? He is incredible around the basket. Doesn't need anything else.

I'm convinced people would want Shaq to develop a jumper if he was a rookie today.

I don't think he needs to develop a jumper. He needs to be able to lead the offense and not rely on someone else to get him the ball (aka why this thread goes off on BI and Bledsoe when Zion has a bad game). If not the whole game, then at least during crunch time. If he doesn't, it seems like he'll be viewed as a RB and not a QB like Luka and LeBron.

And this is to sustain/grow his hobby value. He'll be just fine as a basketball player staying as is and just dominating by the basket.

But I'm still relatively new back in this hobby (late 2018). I may have no idea what I'm talking about - just seems like the guys who can run the offense are at the top of the hobby and the guys who can't are on much lower level (the RB vs QB example). Right now Zion is the exception based off his hype and potential. Will he continue to be the exception without adding that layer to his game? Maybe? I think the smart money is probably on no though.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Filthy

I understand you weren't directly responding to my post.....

But in originally bringing up Blake Griffin, I personally wasn't trying to compare every aspect of Griffins career to the possible projectory of Zion's, but was trying to note the similarity in skillset, common negative misconceptions in regards to what they could, or couldn't do, and statlines. So, to me....he seemed to be the most comparible. Nothing more.

However, Griffin was an All-Star his 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th season in the league. So despite his improvement, development, and continued success, he was STILL crapped on in the hobby World. What is Zion going to have to do? He is just a rookie, so there is no ceiling to what he can accomplish....but I worry that no matter what he does....that he will still be unfairly judged/criticized.

You're totally spot-on in terms of the similarities and common generalities applied to both. Just because both jump real high and dunk...they have to be the same player in the minds of many. Pre-draft he HAD to be zach randolph or anthony bennett. Because both wide shouldered huskybois. Makes sense.

I was more alluding the fact that Blake's hobby trajectory could have looked very different if he hadn't hit a wall his sophomore and junior campaigns.

The hobby is very fickle.

To put this into perspective, we kind of experienced the same with Tatum.

Had a tremendous (though not statistically eye popping) rookie season, followed by a sophomore slump, and then a breakout stretch to conclude his 3rd year. Fortunately for him, though...his resurgence fell right in line with the entire hobby bull market run.

It's very hard to say if Blake's prices would have followed the same path if he were a rookie in 2018 vs. 2012. A lot has changed since then, and it seems as if the prerequisites for player pumping continues to dwindle.

All I know is that Zion looks significantly better than he did last year in most all respects. Will he take another leap into mvp conversations in year 3 or 4? Only time will tell. But I like what I see thus far. He's showing glimpses of pretty much everything.

[22emmittfan]

What I think people are leaving out big time so far is marketability. Griffin got a Kia deal for dunking over it. Zion in first year landed a big deal with Gatorade. He also has a cool z hair style, Blake didn’t have a cool b. Griffin had power dunks which were cool to watch yes same as Zion. But Zion has quickness that not sure who has. He actually has a nice soft touch on those baby 5 footers that never saw griffin really ever hit. Just because people can throw down doesn’t mean they are exactly alike.
What people should be paying attention to is there are some good deals on his stuff right now , or please look the other way and leave them for me. for someone who is already showing improvement from last year where it was mostly about lobs and dunks, yes there are still those, his driving to the rim and his handle in the paint seems vastly improved over last year where he fumbled it quite a bit.

Haters hate, please start a we hate Zion thread and be gone

[k13]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Reading is fundamental.

Blake fell off from his rookie year to his 3rd year.

A 4th year resurgence was inconsequential. The hobby moved on by then. They want to see sustained progression during those earliest years.



Baby steps. Follow me here.

He never fell off. He just played less minutes that year.
His per 36 numbers were exactly the same as previous years.

Trae and Luka are falling in their 3rd years..are they going to be bargains soon??

Nope.

[k13]

Blake was more exciting than Zion.
Zion had a lot of hype.

People forget these boards were all about Blake at one point just like Wiggins was the next Lebron/Kobe.

After 5-6 years people will be bored of Luka and his same old play. Its not like he'll get any better and win anything.

This hobby is just flavor of the month.
People will move on to the next hype.

Especially since its so easy to put up big numbers in this garbage game.

[RogerGodahell]

^^ Delusional as always and hates his life.

Ninja was right when he said look at your Demigods and what they were doing at the same age. Were they winning MVP's and championships in their 2nd or 3rd seasons?

Zion's played 38 games. He's averaging 23 PPG. He's 20, give the guy a chance he hasn't even played a full season yet.

Luka is 21 played 15 games this year averaging 27-10-10 playing with benchwarmers for the last 8 games. But according to ^^ he's washed up and regressing..at 21.

[Dame]

Blake had a lower ceiling. He had tremendous luck playing with one of the best PG throughout his career. Zion is playing with the likes of Lonzo -who somehow morphed into a 3 and D wing than a playmaker/facilitator.


That said, Zion has flaws. He can score at will, we all know that, but the criticisms are on the other end of the floor. He’s just lost defensively. He’s not horrible but it’s not the same Zion back in college. Not sure if it’s effort or he’s still working his way into NBA shape. Cant be his athleticism because he’s still fairly quick and agile even at a slightly bulkier frame.


But keep in mind that even AD was lost defensively during his rookie year and he was highly touted as a defensive anchor coming out of college. People just need to taper expectations with Zion. It’s all about progression as a rookie and he’s making them as we go along.

[Spacemanspif]

Can I just give everyone a piece of advice that will make your lives 1% better?

[k13]

Zion is playing 6 more minutes and only averaging 1 more point than last year and that's with a few good games recently.

Luka ppg are down. 3pt shooting way down
Trae ppg way down..

All regressing and definitely not progressing.

Players peak early..who cares if they are 21.

Not like they will be better at 28.

[cowboyzqna]

When Blake was the talk of the town "Huge" cards commanded 4 and 5k.... are in a different realm.

Blake also lost alott of hobby grace because they "should" have won more... one of the greatest facilitators in the game coupled with the greatest athlete at the time... and didnt do much with it.


Different times. It is a comparison that makes somenbaslerball sense on the face of it.


Zions better.

[nyknicks]

This is a pretty toxic thread. I’m in!

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by 22emmittfan

What I think people are leaving out big time so far is marketability. Griffin got a Kia deal for dunking over it. Zion in first year landed a big deal with Gatorade. He also has a cool z hair style, Blake didn’t have a cool b. Griffin had power dunks which were cool to watch yes same as Zion. But Zion has quickness that not sure who has. He actually has a nice soft touch on those baby 5 footers that never saw griffin really ever hit. Just because people can throw down doesn’t mean they are exactly alike.
What people should be paying attention to is there are some good deals on his stuff right now , or please look the other way and leave them for me. for someone who is already showing improvement from last year where it was mostly about lobs and dunks, yes there are still those, his driving to the rim and his handle in the paint seems vastly improved over last year where he fumbled it quite a bit.

Haters hate, please start a we hate Zion thread and be gone

Took way too long for this massive difference to be pointed out! All griffin could do was dunk. That's not Zion. He scores a TON of different ways around the basket. He has a better post repertoire 50 games into his career than Griffin ever developed.

[jcardstore]

Legit question for the ppl who refuse to acknowledge the clear deficiencies in his game.

What do all the top 5 players in the NBA have in common and for you guys who think he's just fine without a jumper what can he do to become a top 5 NBA player?

Please don't bring up what Shaq did in the 2000s because it is absolutely irrelevant. The game was totally different and I can't think of a top 5 player in the last decade who didn't have a jumpshot.