NBA Top Shot - High Risk, High Reward?

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

This is crazy to me.

His account is in the top 1%.

He is currently down 95% in opportunity cost. The account is “valued” at $12K. Not that you can actually sell.

Last grade check in evaluate.market had him at +$71K. They now have him down $16K and he’s still buying moments.

For reference, Libraury has currently profited $3.8M.

My MVP Vinny1984 (who I miss on these boards) has a profit of $48.

Just a wild ride when you look at some of these a graphs of different users accounts. It’s crazy to think that the last time I checked grades account is the comment I posted above.

By all metrics NBATS looks ded.

The metrics you’re saying in which TS is “dead” is saying grade’s account has lost a ton when his majority of purchases are at the peak of the market?

Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare the current market to moments being purchased in the recent times?

Also Vinny has a nearly 10K profit? You’re looking at his current portfolio which has 15 moments as it looks like he’s sold everything off? You have to look at his sales

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Grade is the equivalent of a penny stock pumper.

Lol. When’s he coming back with more Hot Wheels posts every couple hours?

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I think Grade is doing alright.

Dude has booked $71K profit AFTER fees. Even if the rest of his moments went to $0 and the entire thing plummeted, he’d still be up $13K as he only has $47,848 tied into the platform currently.

Not half bad for 2 months of flipping.



This is crazy to me.

His account is in the top 1%.

He is currently down 95% in opportunity cost. The account is “valued” at $12K. Not that you can actually sell.

Last grade check in evaluate.market had him at +$71K. They now have him down $16K and he’s still buying moments.

For reference, Libraury has currently profited $3.8M.

My MVP Vinny1984 (who I miss on these boards) has a profit of $48.

Just a wild ride when you look at some of these a graphs of different users accounts. It’s crazy to think that the last time I checked grades account is the comment I posted above.

By all metrics NBATS looks ded.

Actually if you’re using grade’s account as a metric, it actually shows the platform is doing well

Your initial comment is he has 71K after taxes profit and if his moments went to 0, he would be up 13K

Currently, according to livetoken he has 61K in profit after taxes and 30K in the market. So if those moments go to 0, his profit will be 31K.

So from your last update, his account if moments go to 0, his profit has actually increased from 13K (although shouldn’t it be 23K technically) up to 31K

So if your metric is grade’s account shows TS is dead, it actually would argue the market is doing better than the last update you showed because his profit is higher

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

The metrics you’re saying in which TS is “dead” is saying grade’s account has lost a ton when his majority of purchases are at the peak of the market?

Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare the current market to moments being purchased in the recent times?

Also Vinny has a nearly 10K profit? You’re looking at his current portfolio which has 15 moments as it looks like he’s sold everything off? You have to look at his sales

Evaluate.market is the exact same site I was using to track these things before. It’s possible the site has changed. Previously they just add up your purchase/sales and subtract the transaction fees.

It could just be that his account is dead so the algo is wonky?

I say it’s ded in the same way I’d say a penny stock is ded.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

Actually if you’re using grade’s account as a metric, it actually shows the platform is doing well

Your initial comment is he has 71K after taxes profit and if his moments went to 0, he would be up 13K

Currently, according to livetoken he has 61K in profit after taxes and 30K in the market. So if those moments go to 0, his profit will be 31K.

So from your last update, his account if moments go to 0, his profit has actually increased from 13K (although shouldn’t it be 23K technically) up to 31K

So if your metric is grade’s account shows TS is dead, it actually would argue the market is doing better than the last update you showed because his profit is higher

You’re right! I forgot about livetoken.

Evaluate.market just shows current portfolio!

Been forever since I looked at this stuff. Thanks for reminding me.

Grade is currently underwater $16K on his current spend, not all time! Thanks for the clarification.

Honestly just bored and I saw this was bumped up arguing the merits of Panini NFT vs. TS.

I miss Vinny and I miss the old NBATS from Q1 when this thread MOVED. Similar to P2020.

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

You’re right! I forgot about livetoken.

Evaluate.market just shows current portfolio!

Been forever since I looked at this stuff. Thanks for reminding me.

Grade is currently underwater $16K on his current spend, not all time! Thanks for the clarification.

Honestly just bored and I saw this was bumped up arguing the merits of Panini NFT vs. TS.

I miss Vinny and I miss the old NBATS from Q1 when this thread MOVED. Similar to P2020.

All good! I used to use evaluate.market but my friend showed me livetoken, think it’s far superior as a site. Helps me find good SNs for my birthday collection PC as well.

Yeah why did Vinny leave? Was he just done with the platform or this thread? Or both? I know he was exhausted of all the arguing

And yeah I’m just bearish on panini because it rubs me the wrong way they don’t publicize their blockchain. Private blockchain versus being on one of the main chains like ETH/FLOW/etc severely hurts their value

[rms13]

I really question evaluate.market. I assume it only accounts for moments in your collection and not ones you’ve sold? It has my account at -$1456 but I can tell you that’s not true. I put about $2k in and sold a bunch of stuff at top of the market and withdrew $2k I initially deposited and have been using remaining profit which was about $1k to continue to buy. So maybe the value of my current moments are down $1456 but that doesn’t reflect my entire account history

[grade]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

Actually if you’re using grade’s account as a metric, it actually shows the platform is doing well

Your initial comment is he has 71K after taxes profit and if his moments went to 0, he would be up 13K

Currently, according to livetoken he has 61K in profit after taxes and 30K in the market. So if those moments go to 0, his profit will be 31K.

So from your last update, his account if moments go to 0, his profit has actually increased from 13K (although shouldn’t it be 23K technically) up to 31K

So if your metric is grade’s account shows TS is dead, it actually would argue the market is doing better than the last update you showed because his profit is higher

You have very little clue about how buying and selling works with those numbers you checked out. How you read everything is totally wrong.


If i buy a Moment at $1 , sell at $300 , buy back the moment at $250, sell that moment for $500, buy back at $475 , sell it at $1500. Re buy at $1400. Today it has a value of $50. Did i lose $1350 ? or actually made money.


This is a problem with book smarts. The bottom line is very important , I have way above your numbers in profits. WAY HIGHER. Buying at peaks was a mistake , but dont forget, i bought and resold many times.

ToppsNFT/WAX up 4x on WAXP alone. My collection is valued 7X (which is too high ,dont think cards can sell at valuation). (all profit from this point)

Panini, Up to 700 cards and counting. (Still a gamble, did not sell a card yet)

TS, 550+ moments. all profit . (approx 25x).

Results is better than any type of book theory and dreaming for me personally. A person can be smart and stupid at the same time, talk and spew numbers all they want, but the bottom line, so stupid that they do not act on anything and take no risk. Smart and Stupid cancel out each other and equals ZERO.

[grade]

Originally Posted by rms13

I really question evaluate.market. I assume it only accounts for moments in your collection and not ones you’ve sold? It has my account at -$1456 but I can tell you that’s not true. I put about $2k in and sold a bunch of stuff at top of the market and withdrew $2k I initially deposited and have been using remaining profit which was about $1k to continue to buy. So maybe the value of my current moments are down $1456 but that doesn’t reflect my entire account history

Yes , he is reading the numbers wrong.
I flipped many of the same moments and made money , not lose $1000's. He is reading only the last purchase at the peak. He is not taking into the account how many times i flipped a moment and the original price i purchase moments in Jan. Not his fault, the sites only shows current port value.

[salthill]

Originally Posted by grade

If i buy a Moment at $1 , sell at $300 , buy back the moment at $250, sell that moment for $500, buy back at $475 , sell it at $1500. Re buy at $1400. Today it has a value of $50. Did i lose $1350 ? or actually made money.

Overall you’re up, but that $1400 was real money in your pocket and you lost it.

[grade]

Originally Posted by salthill

Overall you’re up, but that $1400 was real money in your pocket and you lost it.

At that time, i began to think TS was a scam, they were not letting people cash out . At one point i had $30,000 in dapper and $250,000+ in value. But things were sketchy. Just spend most the dapper on moments because it was like play money. Had money in other things, cash flow was not the problem.

*The Flash Challenges are the first great idea in a long time. If TS used a tier system for the Flash challenges, it might bring many back in.

Make the challenge Top 5 , Top 10 , Top 10 + Rare. everyone can be included in challenges at a different level. Stimulate the market and users .

**Panini made a great move this week also. Challenges when to 15 cards instead of 30. 15 is way more attainable for the masses.

***ToppsNFT is still useless, WAXP Is the play .

[grade]

Originally Posted by salthill

Overall you’re up, but that $1400 was real money in your pocket and you lost it.

Lost about $200,000 if you think about it that way. But learned a lot and moved on to Crypto and other NFTS. Made money from TS lessons. TS was a good schooling in Crypto world.

[rifleman69]

Originally Posted by salthill

Overall you’re up, but that $1400 was real money in your pocket and you lost it.

Technically it's not lost if he didn't sell.

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by rms13

I really question evaluate.market. I assume it only accounts for moments in your collection and not ones you’ve sold? It has my account at -$1456 but I can tell you that’s not true. I put about $2k in and sold a bunch of stuff at top of the market and withdrew $2k I initially deposited and have been using remaining profit which was about $1k to continue to buy. So maybe the value of my current moments are down $1456 but that doesn’t reflect my entire account history

Use livetoken, it has current portfolio and sales in separate spots. Easy to track everything. It’ll have everything you’ve ever done on the platform

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by grade

You have very little clue about how buying and selling works with those numbers you checked out. How you read everything is totally wrong.


If i buy a Moment at $1 , sell at $300 , buy back the moment at $250, sell that moment for $500, buy back at $475 , sell it at $1500. Re buy at $1400. Today it has a value of $50. Did i lose $1350 ? or actually made money.


This is a problem with book smarts. The bottom line is very important , I have way above your numbers in profits. WAY HIGHER. Buying at peaks was a mistake , but dont forget, i bought and resold many times.

ToppsNFT/WAX up 4x on WAXP alone. My collection is valued 7X (which is too high ,dont think cards can sell at valuation). (all profit from this point)

Panini, Up to 700 cards and counting. (Still a gamble, did not sell a card yet)

TS, 550+ moments. all profit . (approx 25x).

Results is better than any type of book theory and dreaming for me personally. A person can be smart and stupid at the same time, talk and spew numbers all they want, but the bottom line, so stupid that they do not act on anything and take no risk. Smart and Stupid cancel out each other and equals ZERO.

I don’t think you understand how livetoken works. It tracks every single sale. It also has a difference between realized and unrealized profits.

From your scenario you laid out, you have a realized profit on each of those sales
Realized profit: 299, 250, 1025
Then unrealized loss of 1350 from the last moment you hadn’t sold yet. That’s all tracked.

Book smarts? What are you talking about? It’s simple knowledge of livetoken and how the platform is used. It tracks every sale.

I don’t see how you think your profit is higher than you think it is when the livetoken ledger has literally tracked every single sale you’ve ever done on the platform

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by grade

Yes , he is reading the numbers wrong.
I flipped many of the same moments and made money , not lose $1000's. He is reading only the last purchase at the peak. He is not taking into the account how many times i flipped a moment and the original price i purchase moments in Jan. Not his fault, the sites only shows current port value.

False, livetoken shows both current portfolio and total sales. Different tabs, very easy to read.

[grade]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

I don’t think you understand how livetoken works. It tracks every single sale. It also has a difference between realized and unrealized profits.

From your scenario you laid out, you have a realized profit on each of those sales
Realized profit: 299, 250, 1025
Then unrealized loss of 1350 from the last moment you hadn’t sold yet. That’s all tracked.

Book smarts? What are you talking about? It’s simple knowledge of livetoken and how the platform is used. It tracks every sale.

I don’t see how you think your profit is higher than you think it is when the livetoken ledger has literally tracked every single sale you’ve ever done on the platform

Believe what you want. I can tell you my actual funds i have received, that your numbers are off. Made more that you think i did. Do all the research you want. There are factors that are not and cannot be tracked with livetoken,etc.

How much have you made? You sound like you know everything about TS so should be able to use that knowledge to time everything perfect.

All the Youtubers talking about TS sound like you. Lots of graphs, lingo and nonsense. Majority made very little. I am not a early adaptor or kryptoKitties person. Started this year and did ok. No inside information, no secret or private invitations last year. Started this year like everyone else.

You think your so smart? Invest all your money in TopShot, dont be scared. go for it. The TS platform is still the best right now. Dont be afraid to pump money into something you believe in. Go for it.

You win and i would even win if TopShot goes to the moon.

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by grade

Believe what you want. I can tell you my actual funds i have received, that your numbers are off. Made more that you think i did. Do all the research you want. There are factors that are not and cannot be tracked with livetoken,etc.

How much have you made? You sound like you know everything about TS so should be able to use that knowledge to time everything perfect.

All the Youtubers talking about TS sound like you. Lots of graphs, lingo and nonsense. Majority made very little. I am not a early adaptor or kryptoKitties person. Started this year and did ok. No inside information, no secret or private invitations last year. Started this year like everyone else.

You think your so smart? Invest all your money in TopShot, dont be scared. go for it. The TS platform is still the best right now. Dont be afraid to pump money into something you believe in. Go for it.

You win and i would even win if TopShot goes to the moon.

The only way you could receive more than what’s on livetoken is if you have multiple accounts. And then we can’t see your other accounts because we don’t know your username.

What factors can’t be tracked? If you’re the master of TS, then tell us. Everything bought and sold on the platform is tracked by livetoken by account.

Livetoken has tracked every single thing on the entire platform. Unless you’re doing offline deals for PayPal that can’t be tracked.

I put in 100 dollars back in January, for fun. Haven’t put a single cent in since, and My current portfolio is around 2K and have realized profit over 5K. So 7K roughly off 100 bucks. Sure I wish I had invested more back at the start, but I looked at it as a fun hobby, not an investment piece. I still don’t truly look at it as an investment site, I’m in it for the hobby. That goes alongside my card collecting.

Why would I invest all my money into something I view as a hobby? I don’t view it as an investment. I don’t view cards as an investment either. Trust me, if I did, I wouldn’t have a main PC of an OL, international/college wrestling, and my teams I root for.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by grade

You think your so smart? Invest all your money in TopShot, dont be scared. go for it. The TS platform is still the best right now. Dont be afraid to pump money into something you believe in. Go for it.

By the way you talk, and this logic there shouldn't be any Panini NFT packs left on the site. You should've bought them all by now. Don't be afraid...Go for it.

[Archangel1775]

What are you al arguing about? Top Shot is here to stay so as long as they keep their NBA licenses. They really need to lock it down for decades and I'm sure they know that.

To say they are dead is nuts. NFL and UFC are on the horizon. Highlights from hard hits and knockouts will be in demand. There is so much they can do with these NFT's, to say its dead is just a terrible take.

[grade]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

The only way you could receive more than what’s on livetoken is if you have multiple accounts. And then we can’t see your other accounts because we don’t know your username.

What factors can’t be tracked? If you’re the master of TS, then tell us. Everything bought and sold on the platform is tracked by livetoken by account.

Livetoken has tracked every single thing on the entire platform. Unless you’re doing offline deals for PayPal that can’t be tracked.

I put in 100 dollars back in January, for fun. Haven’t put a single cent in since, and My current portfolio is around 2K and have realized profit over 5K. So 7K roughly off 100 bucks. Sure I wish I had invested more back at the start, but I looked at it as a fun hobby, not an investment piece. I still don’t truly look at it as an investment site, I’m in it for the hobby. That goes alongside my card collecting.

Why would I invest all my money into something I view as a hobby? I don’t view it as an investment. I don’t view cards as an investment either. Trust me, if I did, I wouldn’t have a main PC of an OL, international/college wrestling, and my teams I root for.

I always had only one account from the beginning. Not a tech person.

This was a hobby like anything else, but if you read the beginning of the thread. After buying a few packs, it became something interesting and could see the opportunity.

Pokemon was not even a hobby, it was something my son wanted decades ago. I dont know how to play it, but turned it into a investment.
Nothing wrong with turning hobbies into investments. I have done it many times.

Your port size is different from my port, the strategy is different, same as my port strategy is different from the top ports. Same as with conventional investing, port size makes a huge difference in strategy.

This explains why we are coming from two totally different angles. What suits you does not suit me and my goals. nothing wrong with what anyone is doing.

I put 2k in Jan, was very active . Should have trusted TS, but at the beginning the platform and what they were saying was very sketchy when dealing with $100,000's . Was not happy with withdraw system and thought TS was not legit to payoffs. Was selling off at the peak, but the withdraws were all excuses from Jan-April. So bought back in as thinking it was play money. Wish TS was more straight up at the beginning with the large amount of money they was holding . So much was being said in Discord and nothing happening and TS was doing the opposite of what being said.

In the end, the system became much better with withdraws, but sometimes the damage has been done, everyone of the people i have got in TS has left and will never return. At some point, TS pisses off everyone and it has a bad reputation with many by word of mouth, which is strong.

TS is becoming a niche platform that users need to be up to date hourly, dont know if any platform or collectible can survive that way. Who knows, but opportunity cost is high if just stuck in the mud on one platform. Time to venture out and see other opportunities at this point until TS direction changes , The Flash challenge is a great feature that actually might work . But knowing TS management, they will screw it up some how.

Panini NFT is much more Hobby relatable for me , simple and more like physical packs. Not a million games , points, CS ,what ever .

MLB NFT has no direction, but WAX is killing it with the direction of the platforms(atomic hub).

We will never agree, your a hobbyist. I am a hobbyist that is willing to take it to investment. Nothing wrong with both avenues.

[grade]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

By the way you talk, and this logic there shouldn't be any Panini NFT packs left on the site. You should've bought them all by now. Don't be afraid...Go for it.

packs are crap, buying singles. Same as physical. Hope the packs do NOT sell out and they burn them. Same like physical cards, nobody knows what the best brand to buy until later. 2012 Prism? nobody knew, 1986 fleer BK, nobody knew. NFT,crypto moves 10x faster than physical stuff. hopefully dont need to wait decades, just a year.

[grade]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

What are you al arguing about? Top Shot is here to stay so as long as they keep their NBA licenses. They really need to lock it down for decades and I'm sure they know that.

To say they are dead is nuts. NFL and UFC are on the horizon. Highlights from hard hits and knockouts will be in demand. There is so much they can do with these NFT's, to say its dead is just a terrible take.

TS is not dead, it is becoming niche.

What is happening is, a person is telling me how much i made. I know exactly what i made. It is more that he thinks.

Still barely active in TS, but the Flash Challenge is fun. Hope they go more that route . Hope the claw back fees TS promised actually happens. UFC and NFL releases might bring in new money.

Until then, Panini and Topps with a little TS.
Oh yah, Heavy on Pokemon

PS: what every happened to the Basketball collection guy in the other thread?

[Eckstein197]

In actual TS news, got my playoff pack. Second release, so 5 moments including 2 playoff moments

Nothing crazy

Shake Milton, Kyle Anderson playoffs

3 other 40Ks

[rubendn]

Got my Playoff pack for last night's challenge. Luckily only needed 1 moment that costs $5. Nice moments in the pack.

Cameron Payne Playoff /12000
Kevin Durant Playoff /11500
Reggie Perry /4000 4-badger
Lauri Markkanen /40000
T.J. McConnell /40000