LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

at some point, i wonder if the dirty were hoping that this thread would fade away

They were. I have no doubt that BNC told 27 to shut it after buybuymj dropped the bomb.

I don’t think this thread will go away. As we’ve seen, there is a lot more to uncover. And there are a lot of people with time on their hands to uncover it.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

I was on board with you until I read that last paragraph. You sound reminiscent of BNC in his post. What's SAD is that you actually believe that non-sense and its interesting to note that you use the word industry (instead of HOBBY) before adding that this thread hurts anyone involved (in the industry as you put it). What's hurting this hobby, is people like BNC trimming, or having cards trimmed so he can get a bump in the grade and moving them on while buyers remain ignorant on the card's history. What's hurting this hobby are people who will pander and butt-kiss to defend people who have been revealed to alter cards with no shame, no guilt, no concern whatsoever, because they only care about the bottom line. What's hurting this hobby are people who will speak up for individuals like BNC to play the politics game and remain in good graces so they can get cards they desire. (In dealing with BNC, so they can overpay egregiously to get the cards they desire, but that's beside the point.)

In reviewing your posts, if you were so concerned with getting the truth out there and making sure collectors had facts, you would have posted the evidence you had on the sale up front. If you want to convince people, don't talk down to them for being suspicious, that paints you as ignorant. You're a big time collector with millions of dollars in cards and you're surprised, or offended people are suspicious of the sale? Have you been living under a rock? It's true, you did not make the thread desperately trying to convince us of the sale's legitimacy, but you did not do yourself any favors in how you presented yourself. All this talk about true collectors and passion and joy and you think this is an industry...and you're calling this thread damaging. What's damaging is BNC's behavior and his actions and furthermore, "big time" collectors like you coming to his aid. We've already seen one person step in a big pile of doodoo for BNC and it didn't do him any favors, except maintain relations with a known trimmer.

This is a HOBBY to a lot of people and we all have a right to be upset, especially considering the evidence that has been posted. No one picks up a card and decides to collect because they want to make a rich man out of someone co-opting their hobby for financial gain...through iniquitous means at that.

You posted this, along with a microscopic picture of the 9.5 you picked up. I'm sure you would still be elated at getting the card for 250k, even if the card were altered, right? Eyyyy, but this thread is damaging.

The blacked out payee section set off alarms to me.

Why on earth would he black that out, and how would it make a difference if the names were there?

Card companies don't even black out the payee section on checks for cut autos of celebrities.

It could very well be a check from Eric to himself or his business.

IMO all of this seems just as indistinct and dirty as it's always been.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Silentcommit

Where are you on the whole moon landing thing? Could be real, facade? Which way you leaning?

Huh?

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by Fifthdownsports

To Jcardstore,

Here is the bank check I used when I bought the Lebron RPA in January of this year. As you can see from the certified cashiers bank check, it was made 4 days after (1/5/18) the purchase shows on ebay (1/1/18). I also saved the very nice messages from the seller to me when I hit the buy it now to try to give me some background and also make a plan to complete the purchase - we did not know each other at all. The seller was someone who bought the cards a long time ago, was building a young family and was cashing in to purchase a house. I never heard of this person before - but glad I met him and purchased the card. When I signed up for blowout - for the sole purpose of helping collectors with the information on the Lebron RPA purchase directly from me - on the thread that was created on this subject matter. The post I made had one intention - which in hindsight seems very naive - trying to help legitimate collectors (which I know is the vast majority including many reading this post who are not chiming in) understand the market by having the facts and information about this purchase. I felt it was the right thing to do - without the desire to self promote - because I felt the transaction was not about me - it was about the card industry and in all collectors best interest to have the facts given there was a legitimate need to know if it was legitimate. I included facts only - despite being told that no matter what I say it will be turned inaccurately. I even offered anyone who legitimately disbelieved very attractive offer to legitimately challenge this claim; nobody did. I did not do this for any other reason but to ensure those trying to understand - that I was being direct.

I have sat back and watched this lynching go on. It is a shame for collectors who invest little and big amounts into sports cards and do so with passion and joy. I have never sent a card in for regrading at all - not once; I only sent some cards in 2-3 submissions years ago of cards that I collected as a child and the results were unflattering so I stopped sending the cards I collected as a child in for grades.

What is really sad is this thread of doing one thing and one thing only - it is hurting the card industry and anyone involved. My one hope (likely naive like my first hope) any temporary satisfaction in submitting a future message in the future aimed at hurting someone else can be rethought with who is really being hurt and what is really being accomplished. I did not come back on here to name call or chest puff. I will conclude by thanking anyone with sincere interest for listening - and hopefully by showing you further details on my transaction can show you sometimes - even if you are convinced you are right on something, it may not be so.


My best to all.

Fifth down: I have no idea who you are, but as someone who (supposedly) spent 250,000K on a card, you of all people (theoretically) have the most to lose by fraudulent activity in this industry. The opinions of this board should not be frowned upon, they should be applauded. This industry needs checks and balances to keep it strong, and these message boards serve that purpose, during scandals and in good times.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

The blacked out payee section set off alarms to me.

Why on earth would he black that out, and how would it make a difference if the names were there?

Card companies don't even black out the payee section on checks for cut autos of celebrities.

It could very well be a check from Eric to himself or his business.

IMO all of this seems just as indistinct and dirty as it's always been.

It smells like !@#$ to me too, I think we would all love to see the blacked out text, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. It's not inappropriate to suspect what you're suggesting at all. I'm drawing parallels with ol' rare23's game from years ago, remember, those guys bought and sold to one another on a regular basis so they could post the 'legitimate' proof of sales too. I am sure you remember that from when they got exposed.

By the way, for all who think this thread is fueled in any way by jealousy, collectors from all tax brackets are chiming in here. We have some high end collectors in the thread calling bullcrap too, so spare us the jealous hater banter. It's actually in the interests of high end / super high end collectors with the most money to be aware of this thread and its implications and the evidence which has been revealed so they can protect themselves.

[alias21]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

He still can say he didn't have the card at some point (sohrob had it), then he got it back from him, sent it to BGS and it came as a 9 and he didn't notice anything weird about it.

I know you don’t believe this and are just throwing it out as some kind of a plausible deniability thing but would anyone really believe it? Bnc obviously makes his living selling high end cards. This is the highest end card in history. Of which he keeps a database of on his site (I think). Is it even possible he buys a damaged /99 but doesn’t take note of the condition. Sends it out to someone else and it arrives back with no damage and he’s none the wiser?

I’m definitely not saying you believe that but there’s no way bnc could come here with that defense. It’s not in the slightest believable.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Tom Brady’s rarest RC just “sold” for $1.2M in October. Would you believe that as well if the owner posted a check?

wait, Evan sold his?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

It smells like !@#$ to me too, I think we would all love to see the blacked out text, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. It's not inappropriate to suspect what you're suggesting at all. I'm drawing parallels with ol' rare23's game from years ago, remember, those guys bought and sold to one another on a regular basis so they could post the 'legitimate' proof of sales too. I am sure you remember that from when they got exposed.

By the way, for all who think this thread is fueled in any way by jealousy, collectors from all tax brackets are chiming in here. We have some high end collectors in the thread calling bullcrap too, so spare us the jealous hater banter. It's actually in the interests of high end / super high end collectors with the most money to be aware of this thread and its implications and the evidence which has been revealed so they can protect themselves.

Adam was one of the aggressive lead detectives in bringing rare23 to light as well. Irony.


Yeah. The jealousy angle doesn't fly. In fact, the South Korean collector that dropped the most damning piece of evidence may be one of the highest rollers in here. He sure didn't have any reservations bringing this grand scale criminal activity to light, even when he himself stated BNC had cards he desired.

This is where the fine line is drawn. Guys like Adam putting potential personal gain over ethics doesn't sit well with many. And I'm sure there's several others in here implicated in the same thing.

[jbarnett83]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

I was on board with you until I read that last paragraph. You sound reminiscent of BNC in his post. What's SAD is that you actually believe that non-sense and its interesting to note that you use the word industry (instead of HOBBY) before adding that this thread hurts anyone involved (in the industry as you put it). What's hurting this hobby, is people like BNC trimming, or having cards trimmed so he can get a bump in the grade and moving them on while buyers remain ignorant on the card's history. What's hurting this hobby are people who will pander and butt-kiss to defend people who have been revealed to alter cards with no shame, no guilt, no concern whatsoever, because they only care about the bottom line. What's hurting this hobby are people who will speak up for individuals like BNC to play the politics game and remain in good graces so they can get cards they desire. (In dealing with BNC, so they can overpay egregiously to get the cards they desire, but that's beside the point.)

In reviewing your posts, if you were so concerned with getting the truth out there and making sure collectors had facts, you would have posted the evidence you had on the sale up front. If you want to convince people, don't talk down to them for being suspicious, that paints you as ignorant. You're a big time collector with millions of dollars in cards and you're surprised, or offended people are suspicious of the sale? Have you been living under a rock? It's true, you did not make the thread desperately trying to convince us of the sale's legitimacy, but you did not do yourself any favors in how you presented yourself. All this talk about true collectors and passion and joy and you think this is an industry...and you're calling this thread damaging. What's damaging is BNC's behavior and his actions and furthermore, "big time" collectors like you coming to his aid. We've already seen one person step in a big pile of doodoo for BNC and it didn't do him any favors, except maintain relations with a known trimmer.

This is a HOBBY to a lot of people and we all have a right to be upset, especially considering the evidence that has been posted. No one picks up a card and decides to collect because they want to make a rich man out of someone co-opting their hobby for financial gain...through iniquitous means at that.

You posted this, along with a microscopic picture of the 9.5 you picked up. I'm sure you would still be elated at getting the card for 250k, even if the card were altered, right? Eyyyy, but this thread is damaging.

I don’t know how to post gifs but if I did it’d be one with a standing ovation, Well said

[theLUCKYshow]

So you guys really aren't sold on the sale of the Lebron still? Seems like youre grasping a bit.

The check is pretty damn compelling, no? Felt like a mic drop.

God here I go again defending the unpopular opinion.

Seriously though. If fifthdown came back with the name unredacted would this issue finally come to rest? What's it going to take for you guys to admit the sale was legitimate?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[imbluestreak23]

I'd still pay three fity for 87

[Jwhoops]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Fifth down: I have no idea who you are, but as someone who (supposedly) spent 250,000K on a card, you of all people (theoretically) have the most to lose by fraudulent activity in this industry. The opinions of this board should not be frowned upon, they should be applauded. This industry needs checks and balances to keep it strong, and these message boards serve that purpose, during scandals and in good times.

It really is amazing, these guys don't get it. They just keep coming in, saying the same thing, and for god knows what reason thinking the reaction is going to be different. At least I can tell 27 is a different person than the rest of these clowns.

[Onions]

I think the check is legit. While my bank would draft the check for me, they would be required to report it to FinCen and the IRS. This amount would draw an insane amount of scrutiny. Especially for a person to person transaction. This is essentially cash changing hands. If I was running a pump and dump scam, I certainly would not be drafting real funds from my account. Especially in that amount. No reason to go that far. I have worked both retail and bank security. No one would lay down a paper trail like this. Even the dumbest of criminals.

[dogzman]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

So you guys really aren't sold on the sale of the Lebron still? Seems like youre grasping a bit.

The check is pretty damn compelling, no? Felt like a mic drop.

God here I go again defending the unpopular opinion.

Seriously though. If fifthdown came back with the name unredacted would this issue finally come to rest? What's it going to take for you guys to admit the sale was legitimate?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I'm fine with it. If legit, kudos on him getting the card he wanted at a price he wanted. Only caveat, if he did buy it from BNC I would have immediately gone and checked it to make sure I wasn't scammed or otherwise. If not a legit sale, it really isn't much of anything in my view except trying to impress someone.

A sale at one high (or low price) is not a trend and "sets the market" for the general hobby public. If there was several sold (legit) at that price then that would be something else. Same if one sold at $1 but none others sold that low.

[dogzman]

Originally Posted by Onions

I think the check is legit. While my bank would draft the check for me, they would be required to report it to FinCen and the IRS. This amount would draw an insane amount of scrutiny. Especially for a person to person transaction. This is essentially cash changing hands. If I was running a pump and dump scam, I certainly would not be drafting real funds from my account. Especially in that amount. No reason to go that far. I have worked both retail and bank security. No one would lay down a paper trail like this. Even the dumbest of criminals.

Agree.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by alias21

I know you don’t believe this and are just throwing it out as some kind of a plausible deniability thing but would anyone really believe it? Bnc obviously makes his living selling high end cards. This is the highest end card in history. Of which he keeps a database of on his site (I think). Is it even possible he buys a damaged /99 but doesn’t take note of the condition. Sends it out to someone else and it arrives back with no damage and he’s none the wiser?

I’m definitely not saying you believe that but there’s no way bnc could come here with that defense. It’s not in the slightest believable.

He's not coming here period. But I won't be shocked if he says something like that if confronted in real life.

But yeah, I don't believe that for one bit. He knew "someone" was doing the trimming (possibly for him) and he was sending them to BGS. All I'm saying is that he might not have been banned (or suspended) yet because of the above.

[alias21]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

He's not coming here period. But I won't be shocked if he says something like that if confronted in real life.

But yeah, I don't believe that for one bit. He knew "someone" was doing the trimming (possibly for him) and he was sending them to BGS. All I'm saying is that he might not have been banned (or suspended) yet because of the above.

Yeah I mean I guess he has to say something if confronted in person. I think any reasonable person knows the score at this point. Some people will still probably deal with him cause he has really high end cards. But anybody doing so has to know their dealing with a criminal at this point. One who’s committed felonies whether convicted or not.

[theLUCKYshow]

Have we talked about this thread? I'm sure we have but I forget.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1210786

Its a super short 23 post thread about a forged AI Sign of the Times where Eric was the seller. Man, a lot of unanswered questions here too.

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Have we talked about this thread? I'm sure we have but I forget.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1210786

Its a super short 23 post thread about a forged AI Sign of the Times where Eric was the seller. Man, a lot of unanswered questions here too.

Looks like the old faded auto which was visible in the background when it was raw was wiped and sent to BGS for authentication. Not sure who did the first forgery.

[ctau00]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

The blacked out payee section set off alarms to me.

Why on earth would he black that out, and how would it make a difference if the names were there?

Card companies don't even black out the payee section on checks for cut autos of celebrities.

It could very well be a check from Eric to himself or his business.

IMO all of this seems just as indistinct and dirty as it's always been.

Not saying the check isn't legit, but who's to say it was ever remitted to the payee and deposited? Purchaser could just as easily held on to it and returned to the issuing bank to request a refund.

Some years back I received a cashier's check from the Connecticut General Life Insurance Company (now known as CIGNA) issued by Chase Manhattan, everything about the check was legit. Other than the fact it was part of a batch which were stolen.

I knew better than to deposit it, the whole thing reeked of Nigerian prince scam except the return address was Sears Financial - that's it no street address and it was metered Canadian postage. There was an enclosed letter on Sun Life Financial letterhead that looked and read like a cut & paste ransom note, it instructed me to call 1-905-598-3414 and speak to my case handler Mick before cashing the check so he could give me instructions on how to wire him is 18K agent fee. Google the number.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Fifthdownsports

To Jcardstore,

Here is the bank check I used when I bought the Lebron RPA in January of this year. As you can see from the certified cashiers bank check, it was made 4 days after (1/5/18) the purchase shows on ebay (1/1/18). I also saved the very nice messages from the seller to me when I hit the buy it now to try to give me some background and also make a plan to complete the purchase - we did not know each other at all. The seller was someone who bought the cards a long time ago, was building a young family and was cashing in to purchase a house. I never heard of this person before - but glad I met him and purchased the card. When I signed up for blowout - for the sole purpose of helping collectors with the information on the Lebron RPA purchase directly from me - on the thread that was created on this subject matter. The post I made had one intention - which in hindsight seems very naive - trying to help legitimate collectors (which I know is the vast majority including many reading this post who are not chiming in) understand the market by having the facts and information about this purchase. I felt it was the right thing to do - without the desire to self promote - because I felt the transaction was not about me - it was about the card industry and in all collectors best interest to have the facts given there was a legitimate need to know if it was legitimate. I included facts only - despite being told that no matter what I say it will be turned inaccurately. I even offered anyone who legitimately disbelieved very attractive offer to legitimately challenge this claim; nobody did. I did not do this for any other reason but to ensure those trying to understand - that I was being direct.

I have sat back and watched this lynching go on. It is a shame for collectors who invest little and big amounts into sports cards and do so with passion and joy. I have never sent a card in for regrading at all - not once; I only sent some cards in 2-3 submissions years ago of cards that I collected as a child and the results were unflattering so I stopped sending the cards I collected as a child in for grades.

What is really sad is this thread of doing one thing and one thing only - it is hurting the card industry and anyone involved. My one hope (likely naive like my first hope) any temporary satisfaction in submitting a future message in the future aimed at hurting someone else can be rethought with who is really being hurt and what is really being accomplished. I did not come back on here to name call or chest puff. I will conclude by thanking anyone with sincere interest for listening - and hopefully by showing you further details on my transaction can show you sometimes - even if you are convinced you are right on something, it may not be so.


My best to all.

Please don't tell me that there is someone dumb enough to take a bank check for an expensive card. This was an old internet scam, give the seller a fake bank check and get the merchandise for free. I even had a major auction house whose owner I had known for over 30 years refuse to accept one as instant payment for a card and ask me for a wire transfer if I wanted to pick up my auction winnings.

[jlzinck]

Don't know or care that about the check of some ticklefest friend of BNC but what kind oh hardo keeps an image of a 250K check for 12 months without have a purpose for it.

Now back to targeting all the scumbags in the cesspool

[pcptrade]

I am not saying that the cashiers check is not legit! A remitted cashiers check may not mean anything if it was never credited into the sellers account. Such an high end sale can be easily orchestrated between two private parties unless it was sold by an auction house such as Goldin, Heritage, PWCC. Whether the cashiers check and that was money credited into sellers account and how those funds were diverted will give us the actual proof. Who was the payee/seller/beneficiary of the cashier's check? Any reason why it was blacked out?

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

I was on board with you until I read that last paragraph. You sound reminiscent of BNC in his post. What's SAD is that you actually believe that non-sense and its interesting to note that you use the word industry (instead of HOBBY) before adding that this thread hurts anyone involved (in the industry as you put it). What's hurting this hobby, is people like BNC trimming, or having cards trimmed so he can get a bump in the grade and moving them on while buyers remain ignorant on the card's history. What's hurting this hobby are people who will pander and butt-kiss to defend people who have been revealed to alter cards with no shame, no guilt, no concern whatsoever, because they only care about the bottom line. What's hurting this hobby are people who will speak up for individuals like BNC to play the politics game and remain in good graces so they can get cards they desire. (In dealing with BNC, so they can overpay egregiously to get the cards they desire, but that's beside the point.)

In reviewing your posts, if you were so concerned with getting the truth out there and making sure collectors had facts, you would have posted the evidence you had on the sale up front. If you want to convince people, don't talk down to them for being suspicious, that paints you as ignorant. You're a big time collector with millions of dollars in cards and you're surprised, or offended people are suspicious of the sale? Have you been living under a rock? It's true, you did not make the thread desperately trying to convince us of the sale's legitimacy, but you did not do yourself any favors in how you presented yourself. All this talk about true collectors and passion and joy and you think this is an industry...and you're calling this thread damaging. What's damaging is BNC's behavior and his actions and furthermore, "big time" collectors like you coming to his aid. We've already seen one person step in a big pile of doodoo for BNC and it didn't do him any favors, except maintain relations with a known trimmer.

This is a HOBBY to a lot of people and we all have a right to be upset, especially considering the evidence that has been posted. No one picks up a card and decides to collect because they want to make a rich man out of someone co-opting their hobby for financial gain...through iniquitous means at that.

You posted this, along with a microscopic picture of the 9.5 you picked up. I'm sure you would still be elated at getting the card for 250k, even if the card were altered, right? Eyyyy, but this thread is damaging.

Great response abra.

100% agree. His statement is eerily similar to BNC's earlier in this thread. I also find it odd he refers to the hobby as an "industry" Such as why I responded to him in the same fashion.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Don't know or care that about the check of some ticklefest friend of BNC but what kind oh hardo keeps an image of a 250K check for 12 months without have a purpose for it.

Now back to targeting all the scumbags in the cesspool

I agree with you. The (supposed) sale of the lebron (which I still don't believe) is irrelevant to the details of this thread.