PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[morningrushnc]

"Elementary, my dear Watson."

[superdan49]

Wow look at the difference in the lower left corner of that DiMaggio:




Moser should have been a plastic surgeon, although it seems being a card doctor pays better than being a medical doctor.

[GatorPie]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Is PSA still churning out graded cards with all of this going on?!

Were you expecting them to just shut down operations and close their doors?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

why wouldnt they?

This doesn’t answer my question: is PSA still grading potentially altered cards like the ones we’ve seen, right now?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cking

Until someone actually files a criminal complaint on PWCC, nothing is going to happen.



And heres the problem with that. If someone does file a complaint and the cops go to PWCC and he is willing to give the customer their money back, the police will more then likely do nothing.



I hope I am wrong. I hope everyone in this mess gets what is coming to them.



I dont know what the next step to take is. If I had to take a guess I would say you need a media outlet to pick up the story. A media outlet that has a large following.



I have asked this before and no one ever answers so I will ask again.



Are people allowed to post on the social media accounts of PSA or BGS?



If the answers is yes, what has been the result? Do they remove anything negative about them instantly?

I think the compiled list of information with sale dates, cert numbers, etc. will be very helpful.

I’d contribute to a full-page ad in a publication displaying the list certs, and sales dates of altered cards. It would be news-worthy whenever a relevant publication refuses to pick up the ad, or refuses to link to it from their site(s).

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Were you expecting them to just shut down operations and close their doors?

I’d expect them to address the issue in a public matter before continuing like nothing happened like an honest company would.

Why wouldn’t you expect them to do this...?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by morningrushnc

The police aren't going to care about this at all. You need to get actual investigative entities (Attorneys General, FBI, SBI, etc) involved for anything to happen.



I don't think the media running a story like this would get far. It's too complicated for the average person to care, much less understand what's happening.

Yes, clearly not a police issue.

The media runs stories on graded cards frequently enough, albeit always in a positive light...media knows people can understand. There’s always a story when the subject matter involves millions of dollars, more so when a scam is involved.

Main takeaway for the average person:
Hobbyists that rely on companies to tell them how good/valuable their cards are have been duped to the tune of xx million dollars.

Or:
“Remember that story about the guy selling really old tobacco cards that were in really good shape and so were really expensive? Well, they may be really not so valuable after all”

[Finest]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

This doesn’t answer my question: is PSA still grading potentially altered cards like the ones we’ve seen, right now?

Yes, they can't tell if a card has been altered or not.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

This doesn’t answer my question: is PSA still grading potentially altered cards like the ones we’ve seen, right now?

that was not your question

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I’d expect them to address the issue in a public matter before continuing like nothing happened like an honest company would.

Why wouldn’t you expect them to do this...?

you expect them to answer publically? Really?

[GatorPie]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I’d expect them to address the issue in a public matter before continuing like nothing happened like an honest company would.

Why wouldn’t you expect them to do this...?

This is a public company, not one owned by the old man down the street.

[Bigbluesooner]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I’d expect them to address the issue in a public matter before continuing like nothing happened like an honest company would.

Why wouldn’t you expect them to do this...?

PWCC


PSA


BODA

[qdoggmets]

Originally Posted by seanbros55

These crimes are bad enough in and of themselves, but to take these amazing pieces of American sports history, in some cases over 100 years old, and to utterly destroy them to go up a grade or two shows a complete lack of ANY love of the hobby. This is such a disgusting display of greed, and astonishing lack of any moral fiber whatsoever.

These people need to pay for this defamation of what USED TO BE beautiful artifacts.

You should lookup the definition of defamation. I know it starts and ends with the same letters as destruction...but

[irv]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

No public acknowledgment yet, but an instructional video how to determine how much your PSA cards are worth:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#4659d125755b

Originally Posted by superdan49

David Seideman is more cheerleader than journalist and should not be taken seriously as an industry reporter.

Originally Posted by JMANIA

I hope he was challenged on net54 to explain how he was "screwed royally before the advent of grading". Not much problems out there other than a counterfeit Rose rookie and 1984 Donruss Mattingly. Hard to image he was screwed. A good journalist should be objective, it does not sound like he is because he likes to be close with those he considers important - dealers, grading companies, etc.

I actually told him about 6-8 months ago that I enjoyed reading his articles.
I, like others, couldn't believe what he wrote on Net54. It was clear to me he was either sent/paid by Brent or he has a vested interest in the company?

Now that I think of things further, I wonder if what he wrote on there in Brent's/PWCC's defense goes against Forbes policy or code of conduct procedures?
I know I'll never read another article from him after reading that puff piece!

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by irv

I actually told him about 6-8 months ago that I enjoyed reading his articles.
I, like others, couldn't believe what he wrote on Net54. It was clear to me he was either sent/paid by Brent or he has a vested interest in the company?

Now that I think of things further, I wonder if what he wrote on there in Brent's/PWCC's defense goes against Forbes policy or code of conduct procedures?
I know I'll never read another article from him after reading that puff piece!

I don't think it's anything sinister. I just think he's had some wool pulled over his eyes.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I think the compiled list of information with sale dates, cert numbers, etc. will be very helpful.

I’d contribute to a full-page ad in a publication displaying the list certs, and sales dates of altered cards. It would be news-worthy whenever a relevant publication refuses to pick up the ad, or refuses to link to it from their site(s).

I have recreated a dozen or so submissions that Brent has made that contain cards that Corndog and Dan have been posting in this thread. Where there is smoke there is fire. It is very safe to assume that even absent a before picture proving the card was altered that other cards in these submissions have been undergone work. Dan and Corndog are working hard to find as many of them as they can.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I have recreated a dozen or so submissions that Brent has made that contain cards that Corndog and Dan have been posting in this thread. Where there is smoke there is fire. It is very safe to assume that even absent a before picture proving the card was altered that other cards in these submissions have been undergone work. Dan and Corndog are working hard to find as many of them as they can.

I'll be posting the updated Registry owner list soon as well. Thanks Capt.!



Update—Only three of the cards found today are in registries. Here they are:

• 1948 Bowman #10 Buddy Rosar PSA 10 Cert#:27755525 (Post #1836) - Currently in a user's private registry.

• 1948 Leaf #79 Jackie Robinson PSA 6 Cert#:42313726 (Post #1852) - Currently in a user's private registry.

• T206 Ty Cobb Portrait-Green PSA 3.5 Cert#:27015451 (Post #1925) - currently in RyanCollier's Set Registry "Ryan's Budget Breaker."

[Doublexthebeast]

Someone needs to get all of this over to Keith Olbermann.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by Doublexthebeast

Someone needs to get all of this over to Keith Olbermann.

He's too busy trying to save dogs.

[prosody]

It is not possible all of Moser's (and other trimmers) submissions receive numerical grades. PSA claims their graders do not know who has submitted the cards they work on. However, somewhere in the PSA submission data, is a record of every card submitted by each person, and the grades they received.

If they do not review this data on a regular basis to identify anyone with a large percentage (large is subjective and could be 5%) of altered cards, they are not doing their job.

In addition, if the grades received are always above a certain threshold, this should also be a concern.

It is unlikely submitters who meet this criteria are doing this to place cards in their own registries.

The dealers who submit a heavy volume of cards, most of which are high end, with an above average amount of cards identified as altered, are the ones I would suspect are altering cards.

If PSA cannot do this, they are inept. If they can do this, and are not, they are complicit. If they have done this, and are working on a way to mitigate the damage, it would be helpful for the community to know.

What they should do is stop accepting submissions from people they identify as trimming cards.

David

[ThoseBackPages]

#SLABGATE

[vwnut13]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

why wouldnt they?

Meanwhile, you don't seem to understand that the integrity of grading is shot.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:25959187

1952 Berk Ross Mickey Mantle PSA 6 to PSA 7

Sold on 9/9/2015 as a PSA 6 by PWCC to an unknown buyer for $1,375.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 9/8/2016 as a PSA 7 for $2,606.00
Value gain of $1,231.00!


The left (or, viewed horizontally, bottom) border of this '52 Berk Ross Mantle has been significantly trimmed. Like the '48 Leaf baseball and football sets, the '52 Berk Ross has been shown to be one of Moser's go-to sets because the cards have a natural variance in size. Although Vintagecardprices.com, as of last night, suspiciously erased all their data on the winners of eBay auctions, I feel safe in asserting that whitman111 was the winning bidder here.

The bright green rectangle shows the trimmed edge, while the red circles mark the distinct paper fibers demonstrating the cards are the same.


https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1156609



https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1341532

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Although Vintagecardprices.com, as of last night, suspiciously erased all their data on the winners of eBay auctions, I feel safe in asserting that whitman111 was the winning bidder here.

Say it ain’t so Dan! That sounds like a coverup to me!

[qdoggmets]

It will be interesting to see this applied to the upcoming auction as it is live, what they have in the auction, who it came from and what they do about outed cards.

That is going to be the make or break.