Shaq does not sign his Panini cards - Page 8

jmscoggin · 03-05-2017, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daxwills

What 3 pack certified cards were they and who did you submit them to? Cause this just got more interesting. Read the article I posted. Psa/jsa backed up upper deck in court.

Two of them were from Classic and while I've never heard of them having issues with authenticity, I wasn't shocked either. They were Muhammad Ali and Sterling Sharpe. The third did surprise me, it was a Joe Montana from UD. I don't doubt the article in the least, I'm just relaying what happened to me and what happened to my buddy a few weeks ago.

daxwills · 03-05-2017, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Two of them were from Classic and while I've never heard of them having issues with authenticity, I wasn't shocked either. They were Muhammad Ali and Sterling Sharpe. The third did surprise me, it was a Joe Montana from UD. I don't doubt the article in the least, I'm just relaying what happened to me and what happened to my buddy a few weeks ago.

The Montana is interesting. It wouldn't be that original "football heroes" auto would it? If the Ali is the one I'm assuming it is, did you pull it yourself or buy it? That card has a ton of fakes of it out there. I know jack all about baseball or how they do autos so I have nothing to offer there.

jmscoggin · 03-05-2017, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daxwills

The Montana is interesting. It wouldn't be that original "football heroes" auto would it? If the Ali is the one I'm assuming it is, did you pull it yourself or buy it? That card has a ton of fakes of it out there. I know jack all about baseball or how they do autos so I have nothing to offer there.

No, it isn't from the Heroes set. The Ali was just recently purchased from Probstein. He listed at least 20 of them and I certainly had my concerns but figured I was safe buying a 'pack certified' card from a major seller, not so much. He offered a refund and it will be going back.

To be honest, I've never had a pack certified auto fail before this and I didn't realize that companies even looked at the authenticity of pack certified autos when grading them. Also, my three were failed by SGC, Mike's Pujols was failed by PSA.

daxwills · 03-05-2017, 10:17 PM

I'm assuming the Ali failed because the card was counterfeited. That card is highly sought after and there are a ton of fakes floating around. I'm curious about the baseball card. If you get a chance and feel like it post a pic of the Montana. I've never used sgc and am curious why it was rejected. I wasn't even aware they authenticated signatures.

rimshaqer34 · 03-06-2017, 12:51 AM

It means probably somehow Panini looked out this thread.... but still the autographs are not consistent enough. ...

chugga15 · 03-06-2017, 01:45 AM

I want to first state that i own no shaq autos. I have nothing to gain from this posting.

This thread really upset me. It reminds me of the current echo chamber of the political world. We only want to hear the thoughts that benefit us. The most recent Shaq autos look nothing like the other autos posted. Someone other than Shaq is clearly signing his newest Panini autos.

Even the Panini tweet shows this assertion to be true. The autos in that tweet show a consistent style that is in line with his older autos. If Panini didnt post that signing, then it could be argued that his auto changed over time. Panini shot themselves in the foot with that tweet; his auto NEVER changed significantly.

This should be causing an uproar in the collecting field. This is huge.

rman112 · 03-06-2017, 02:00 AM

Shaq started signing TTM a little while back as well.. kinda outta nowhere.

chugga15 · 03-06-2017, 02:10 AM

This has several parallels to the Great Recession.

Panini is acting as the bank. As the bank, they are issuing highly volatile signatures and the CEO is profitting mightily.

The rating agencies in charge of oversight and assessing risk are compromised. The rating agencies (psa and bgs) have their profits dictated by the instruments they are rating. When the rating agencies are critical of the banks, they lose profits.

Therefore, the rating agencies issue AAA ratings to junk bonds (cards). This arrangement persists until the market figures out the extent of the bubble. Then it collapses.

shaqfan2 · 03-06-2017, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugga15

I want to first state that i own no shaq autos. I have nothing to gain from this posting.

This thread really upset me. It reminds me of the current echo chamber of the political world. We only want to hear the thoughts that benefit us. The most recent Shaq autos look nothing like the other autos posted. Someone other than Shaq is clearly signing his newest Panini autos.

Even the Panini tweet shows this assertion to be true. The autos in that tweet show a consistent style that is in line with his older autos. If Panini didnt post that signing, then it could be argued that his auto changed over time. Panini shot themselves in the foot with that tweet; his auto NEVER changed significantly.

This should be causing an uproar in the collecting field. This is huge.

It's odd that he decided to have someone else sign his cards after those first few years with Panini and it was not picked up at least by Panini until now where we actually saw him sign some upcoming cards.

That said, I think it's common for people to get help with signings since they send boxes and boxes of cards to players. IIRC, it was shown in here that one rookie was like "So uhhh anyone able to help me with these?" along with a picture of the boxes of his blanks but he deleted the post after a while.

jj2 · 03-06-2017, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugga15

This has several parallels to the Great Recession.

Panini is acting as the bank. As the bank, they are issuing highly volatile signatures and the CEO is profitting mightily.

The rating agencies in charge of oversight and assessing risk are compromised. The rating agencies (psa and bgs) have their profits dictated by the instruments they are rating. When the rating agencies are critical of the banks, they lose profits.

Therefore, the rating agencies issue AAA ratings to junk bonds (cards). This arrangement persists until the market figures out the extent of the bubble. Then it collapses.

This is a great post.

pnft17 · 03-06-2017, 07:50 AM

It's game used ud jersey cards people need answers to!!! Read
About all history and fraud UD pulled its amazing no one says a word about that here haha
...

jmscoggin · 03-06-2017, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnft17

It's game used ud jersey cards people need answers to!!! Read
About all history and fraud UD pulled its amazing no one says a word about that here haha
...

I've always assumed mem cards to be non-authentic so no, I don't care. Autographs are a completely different story though, this thread troubles me greatly.

dbird3312 · 03-06-2017, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

I've always assumed mem cards to be non-authentic so no, I don't care. Autographs are a completely different story though, this thread troubles me greatly.

I'm in the same boat as you..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chugga15 · 03-06-2017, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jj2

This is a great post.

Thanks, after a couple glasses of wine, the true extent of the issue was revealed.

chugga15 · 03-06-2017, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

I've always assumed mem cards to be non-authentic so no, I don't care. Autographs are a completely different story though, this thread troubles me greatly.

I've assumed that mem is at most player worn, unless specified differently. Autographs are completely different. An autograph is valueless if Shaq didnt pen it.

rcgdodge · 03-06-2017, 01:37 PM

I just sent this card to BGS....wonder what they will have to say about it.

chugga15 · 03-06-2017, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcgdodge

I just sent this card to BGS....wonder what they will have to say about it.

I am sure they will authenticate the card. They arent going to bite off the hand that feeds them.

SteveO21 · 03-06-2017, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugga15

This has several parallels to the Great Recession.

Panini is acting as the bank. As the bank, they are issuing highly volatile signatures and the CEO is profitting mightily.

The rating agencies in charge of oversight and assessing risk are compromised. The rating agencies (psa and bgs) have their profits dictated by the instruments they are rating. When the rating agencies are critical of the banks, they lose profits.

Therefore, the rating agencies issue AAA ratings to junk bonds (cards). This arrangement persists until the market figures out the extent of the bubble. Then it collapses.

That's fantastic.

duron · 03-06-2017, 05:27 PM

chugga15 I approve your wine choices.

mhcook · 03-06-2017, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugga15

I am sure they will authenticate the card. They arent going to bite off the hand that feeds them.

When they grade a card they are not authenticating the autograph that is already certified by the manufacturer. The auto is only authenticated when it has the JSA addition or whatever the new Beckett authentication is.

chugga15 · 03-06-2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhcook

When they grade a card they are not authenticating the autograph that is already certified by the manufacturer. The auto is only authenticated when it has the JSA addition or whatever the new Beckett authentication is.

That makes sense. However, by putting a grade on an auto they are culpable. It definitely decreases their credibility.

daxwills · 03-06-2017, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chugga15

That makes sense. However, by putting a grade on an auto they are culpable. It definitely decreases their credibility.

They have zero culpability. You send a card to BGS you are sending it in for them to grade the card and grade the quality of the auto, not authenticate it. You'd have to send it to PSA to get the auto authenticated and JSA if you wanted to "test" the auto. The BGS test is immaterial I'm afraid.

shaqfan2 · 03-06-2017, 08:08 PM

It's kind of sad looking at the Instagram post's comments... mostly this one:

Quote:

bigmattthecat52 @paniniamerica I love this. Shows all the mass amount of people that said Shaq autos were fake. @paniniamerica ��

Mostly because it's shows for certain that the 2013~ autos were definitely not real.

jmscoggin · 03-06-2017, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcgdodge

I just sent this card to BGS....wonder what they will have to say about it.

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain they won't even consider that the auto isn't real. BGS even grades/slabs sheet cut cards and proofs without labeling them so. Of the major three graders, I trust them by far the least which is a shame, as I live within 30 minutes of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhcook

When they grade a card they are not authenticating the autograph that is already certified by the manufacturer. The auto is only authenticated when it has the JSA addition or whatever the new Beckett authentication is.

Exactly. I know for a fact that PSA and SGC do authenticate pack certified autos (see above) but unless something has recently changed, BGS does not.

mhcook · 03-06-2017, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmscoggin

Exactly. I know for a fact that PSA and SGC do authenticate pack certified autos (see above) but unless something has recently changed, BGS does not.

That is good to know that those 2 authenticate certified autos, I had no clue any of them did.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

03-05-2017, 10:17 PM	#179
daxwills Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 6,263	I'm assuming the Ali failed because the card was counterfeited. That card is highly sought after and there are a ton of fakes floating around. I'm curious about the baseball card. If you get a chance and feel like it post a pic of the Montana. I've never used sgc and am curious why it was rejected. I wasn't even aware they authenticated signatures. __________________ I had a dream my life would be So different from this hell I'm living So different now from what it seemed Now life has killed the dream, I dreamed

03-06-2017, 12:51 AM	#180
rimshaqer34 Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Indonesia Posts: 773 rimshaqer34 rimshaqer34	It means probably somehow Panini looked out this thread.... but still the autographs are not consistent enough. ... __________________ Lifetime SHAQ collector ebay/FB/instagram/wechat ID : rimshaqer34

03-06-2017, 01:37 PM	#191
rcgdodge Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Delaware Posts: 25,131 rcgdodge	I just sent this card to BGS....wonder what they will have to say about it. __________________ Looking For: 2013 Bowman Chrome Joe Mauer - - Black, Yellow, Red, Printing Plates Last edited by rcgdodge; 03-06-2017 at 01:41 PM.

03-06-2017, 05:27 PM	#194
duron Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: NYC Posts: 12,071 drewtang duron	chugga15 I approve your wine choices. __________________ IG: Darz90sCardz PC: MJ/Penny

03-06-2017, 01:45 AM	#181
chugga15 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 863	I want to first state that i own no shaq autos. I have nothing to gain from this posting. This thread really upset me. It reminds me of the current echo chamber of the political world. We only want to hear the thoughts that benefit us. The most recent Shaq autos look nothing like the other autos posted. Someone other than Shaq is clearly signing his newest Panini autos. Even the Panini tweet shows this assertion to be true. The autos in that tweet show a consistent style that is in line with his older autos. If Panini didnt post that signing, then it could be argued that his auto changed over time. Panini shot themselves in the foot with that tweet; his auto NEVER changed significantly. This should be causing an uproar in the collecting field. This is huge.

03-06-2017, 02:00 AM	#182
rman112 Banned Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Freedom is Free Again Posts: 40,946	Shaq started signing TTM a little while back as well.. kinda outta nowhere.

03-06-2017, 02:10 AM	#183
chugga15 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 863	This has several parallels to the Great Recession. Panini is acting as the bank. As the bank, they are issuing highly volatile signatures and the CEO is profitting mightily. The rating agencies in charge of oversight and assessing risk are compromised. The rating agencies (psa and bgs) have their profits dictated by the instruments they are rating. When the rating agencies are critical of the banks, they lose profits. Therefore, the rating agencies issue AAA ratings to junk bonds (cards). This arrangement persists until the market figures out the extent of the bubble. Then it collapses.

03-06-2017, 07:50 AM	#186
pnft17 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,693	It's game used ud jersey cards people need answers to!!! Read About all history and fraud UD pulled its amazing no one says a word about that here haha ...