Are you nervously holding your Trouts?

[SleepyWill]

Griffey, was a freak in terms of raw talent in the field as well with 10 gold glove awards and highlight reels on insane catches.

Trout to my knowledge has zero Gold Gloves to his name, so to me at least that's just another reason why the doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation.

[49ersSF]

Injuries should be the main concern. Also, players tend to depreciate rapidly after signing long-term contracts. Pujols, Cabrera, ARod, and Stanton are prime examples. I tend to think players are less motivated once they have that long term guaranteed contract.

[FreshOutThePack]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Outside of the Barry Bonds steroid years Mike Trout dominated baseball like no other.

You really have an avi pic of Teddy Ballgame and you're just gonna disrespect him like that? Wow, ok.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Injuries should be the main concern. Also, players tend to depreciate rapidly after signing long-term contracts. Pujols, Cabrera, ARod, and Stanton are prime examples. I tend to think players are less motivated once they have that long term guaranteed contract.

The other side of that coin is that the teams are less likely to rush a player back from injury if they are invested in him over the long haul.

[The_Reverend]

I have no trouts for hold anymore.

[epatmythes]

Originally Posted by SleepyWill

Lets pump those brakes there for a moment, you're missing one big difference between those names and Trout.

Championships, they have them, and have been the center pieces of their respected teams post season success. Trout is certainly a HOF right now, but, I doubt he will catch Mantle or Griffey's homerun totals. Also, these legends had larger than life persona's outside of the sport, which Trout frankly does not. He has zero personality, and that will most certainly impact his legacy long term in the eyes of casual fans. Hell, from 2010-2019 I'd wager that more consumers knew who Harper was over Trout, despite Trout having better numbers.

Originally Posted by SleepyWill

Griffey, was a freak in terms of raw talent in the field as well with 10 gold glove awards and highlight reels on insane catches.

Trout to my knowledge has zero Gold Gloves to his name, so to me at least that's just another reason why the doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation.

Championships and Gold Gloves... the 2 main arguments used to convince someone you don't know what you're talking about, without actually telling them you don't know what you're talking about!

It's the equivalent of 2 car guys debating if one's Mustang is faster in the quarter mile than the other guys Camaro... only to have Joe, on his bicycle chime in that the Mustang must be superior because it's gas tank holds 2 gallons more... Moronic, and irrelevant.

Hank Aaron and Willie Mays each played 23 years in MLB... each, won one ring. Their combined total of 2... is 2 more than the combined total of other generational greats like Ted Williams, Ken Griffey Jr. and Barry Bonds. Championships mean less in baseball than any other team sport... by a wide margin... it's really not even debatable.

Gold Gloves, really? Mike Trout was awarded the 2012 Overall Defensive Player of the Year award... but did Rawlings give him a Gold Glove, nope! Gold gloves, you could almost arque are a joke... but they are not... but they are an award that is deeply rooted in defensive evaluation only. From that standpoint, it's not exactly Mike's fault he's played the majority of his "healthy" career in the same League as Adam Jones and Kevin Kiermaier... two guys that can't carry Mike's bat bag, but are, arguably, better defensive centerfielder's than the other guy, Mike, who's pretty gosh darn good at that part of his job as well.

[Eckstein197]

Originally Posted by SleepyWill

Griffey, was a freak in terms of raw talent in the field as well with 10 gold glove awards and highlight reels on insane catches.

Trout to my knowledge has zero Gold Gloves to his name, so to me at least that's just another reason why the doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation.

gold gloves lose value when they’ve mainly been used as a popularity award/lack a lot of defensive metrics

Jeter won gold gloves but any defensive metrics would state he was the worst defensive SS in the league

[SleepyWill]

Originally Posted by epatmythes

Championships and Gold Gloves... the 2 main arguments used to convince someone you don't know what you're talking about, without actually telling them you don't know what you're talking about!

It's the equivalent of 2 car guys debating if one's Mustang is faster in the quarter mile than the other guys Camaro... only to have Joe, on his bicycle chime in that the Mustang must be superior because it's gas tank holds 2 gallons more... Moronic, and irrelevant.

Hank Aaron and Willie Mays each played 23 years in MLB... each, won one ring. Their combined total of 2... is 2 more than the combined total of other generational greats like Ted Williams, Ken Griffey Jr. and Barry Bonds. Championships mean less in baseball than any other team sport... by a wide margin... it's really not even debatable.

Gold Gloves, really? Mike Trout was awarded the 2012 Overall Defensive Player of the Year award... but did Rawlings give him a Gold Glove, nope! Gold gloves, you could almost arque are a joke... but they are not... but they are an award that is deeply rooted in defensive evaluation only. From that standpoint, it's not exactly Mike's fault he's played the majority of his "healthy" career in the same League as Adam Jones and Kevin Kiermaier... two guys that can't carry Mike's bat bag, but are, arguably, better defensive centerfielder's than the other guy, Mike, who's pretty gosh darn good at that part of his job as well.

Any comparison between players always involves championships, either winning or played in.

You talk about any of the historic Yankees teams, and you’ll be beaten over the head with how many championships they had been a part of. Or, Griffey for that matter, the lack of championships was something that always loomed over his head.

[jbrown36836]

Originally Posted by Eckstein197

gold gloves lose value when they’ve mainly been used as a popularity award/lack a lot of defensive metrics



Jeter won gold gloves but any defensive metrics would state he was the worst defensive SS in the league

Jeter was overrated because he played on the Yankees

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[NYBBFAN]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

The other side of that coin is that the teams are less likely to rush a player back from injury if they are invested in him over the long haul.

Maybe this is the case with Trout. Doesn’t seem to be the case with Tatis who is currently lost in CF.

[cardsin47]

This thread is only popular now because we have time to talk about Trout while he nurses his injury —— as soon as he’s back in action, making plays and smacking dingers, this thread will die down quickly. It’s temporary - Trouts greatness will be permanent

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by SleepyWill

Griffey, was a freak in terms of raw talent in the field as well with 10 gold glove awards and highlight reels on insane catches.

Trout to my knowledge has zero Gold Gloves to his name, so to me at least that's just another reason why the doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation.

Imagine if Griffey/Thomas/Bonds played in the past decade, Trout might not have won a single MVP.

Shoot, the Big Hurt has had a number of better seasons than some of Trout's, and didn't even crack the top 7 in MVP voting.

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Imagine if Griffey/Thomas/Bonds played in the past decade, Trout might not have won a single MVP.

Shoot, the Big Hurt has had a number of better seasons than some of Trout's, and didn't even crack the top 7 in MVP voting.

Didn't Frank Thomas win back-to-back MVP's?

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Imagine if Griffey/Thomas/Bonds played in the past decade, Trout might not have won a single MVP.

Shoot, the Big Hurt has had a number of better seasons than some of Trout's, and didn't even crack the top 7 in MVP voting.

What make for one helluva’ decade in MLB!

[JRX]

Griffey/Thomas/Bonds numbers would not be as good today. People seem to be oblivious to the impact of the shift/higher velo/more relief pitchers. There's a reason 200 hits is very rare now, its not because everyone sucks today compared to 25 years ago. There was a big deal made out of Gagne vs Bonds that's because Gagne was one of the only guys that could hit 100, now every team has guys throwing that hard.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by JRX

Griffey/Thomas/Bonds numbers would not be as good today. People seem to be oblivious to the impact of the shift/higher velo/more relief pitchers. There's a reason 200 hits is very rare now, its not because everyone sucks today compared to 25 years ago. There was a big deal made out of Gagne vs Bonds that's because Gagne was one of the only guys that could hit 100, now every team has guys throwing that hard.

I dunno’…… I think if a great player was time travel placed in another decade - either future or past, they would make the adjustments necessary to maintain their greatness ……

[pete2345]

Trouts done I've been telling you folks for awhile. Maybe Ohtani can carry him into a postseason but trouts best days are long gone.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Didn't Frank Thomas win back-to-back MVP's?

I believe he did. But if he played from 2011, probably would’ve won more than 2.

Originally Posted by cardsin47

What make for one helluva’ decade in MLB!

Haha, lucky to have witnessed what we witnessed in the 90s (despite all the steroid issues).

Originally Posted by JRX

Griffey/Thomas/Bonds numbers would not be as good today. People seem to be oblivious to the impact of the shift/higher velo/more relief pitchers. There's a reason 200 hits is very rare now, its not because everyone sucks today compared to 25 years ago. There was a big deal made out of Gagne vs Bonds that's because Gagne was one of the only guys that could hit 100, now every team has guys throwing that hard.

You’re making a big assumption. I wonder how much more they would’ve developed with access to today’s technology and data.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

I dunno’…… I think if a great player was time travel placed in another decade - either future or past, they would make the adjustments necessary to maintain their greatness ……

Its not that they wouldn't be good, they'd still be some of the best players in the league, but their numbers would not be what they were. They would all strikeout more, they would hit into the shift, etc. Even with the focus on launch angle, we've only had 4 50HR seasons in the last 10 years. Nobody has had back to back 50HR seasons since Arod in 01-02. No player not associated with Roids has had back to back 50HR since Griffey in 97/98. Its just not the same game as when they played.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by JRX

Its not that they wouldn't be good, they'd still be some of the best players in the league, but their numbers would not be what they were. They would all strikeout more, they would hit into the shift, etc. Even with the focus on launch angle, we've only had 4 50HR seasons in the last 10 years. Nobody has had back to back 50HR seasons since Arod in 01-02. No player not associated with Roids has had back to back 50HR since Griffey in 97/98. Its just not the same game as when they played.

Well, there’s the answer….. we just need league wide endorsed use of ‘roids, and got those exciting power numbers back up !

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Mickey was a winner and he was in New York

Mantle was part of 12 AL Champions and 7 World Champions. Trout can't even get his team past a Division Series. He is nothing like Mantle. His prices will crash if injuries keep him from hitting major milestones.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by JRX

Its not that they wouldn't be good, they'd still be some of the best players in the league, but their numbers would not be what they were. They would all strikeout more, they would hit into the shift, etc. Even with the focus on launch angle, we've only had 4 50HR seasons in the last 10 years. Nobody has had back to back 50HR seasons since Arod in 01-02. No player not associated with Roids has had back to back 50HR since Griffey in 97/98. Its just not the same game as when they played.

I hear what you’re saying, but a blanket statement couldn’t be applied to all players. One might find that if a minor star in the ‘80s was placed into today’s game, he’d become a huge star and completely dominate.

Placing Dave Kingman in today’s game for instance would be particularly interesting.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by rats60

Mantle was part of 12 AL Champions and 7 World Champions.
Trout can't even get his team past a Division Series.
He is nothing like Mantle.

His prices will crash if injuries keep him from hitting major milestones.

It’s a team sport - trout can’t carry an entire team
He is statistically VERY much like Mantle
His prices haven’t and will not crash


Maybe instead of rats60, you could be rats13?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by rats60

Mantle was part of 12 AL Champions and 7 World Champions. Trout can't even get his team past a Division Series. He is nothing like Mantle. His prices will crash if injuries keep him from hitting major milestones.

You do realize that in most of those seasons, Mantle played beside multiple other future Hall of Famers on the Yankees. Who has Trout played with that will sniff the Hall of Fame other than a broken down Pujols?

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by rats60

Mantle was part of 12 AL Champions and 7 World Champions. Trout can't even get his team past a Division Series. He is nothing like Mantle. His prices will crash if injuries keep him from hitting major milestones.

To be fair, Mickey was on a great team and there was less competition back in the days (due to less teams).

Not the most fair comparison.