First Buzz: 2019-20 Panini Eminence NBA cards

[yaoming]

No MJ
No Lebron
No Kobe

50k?? Come on now...
You can get a nice mj / lebron/ kobe exquisites with that


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[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Just because you repeat something over and over again does not make it true. There has never been a grudge, we have had a great relationship with them for decades and continue to have one.

You can also want a company back, but the PA and the League does not. You want old Upper Deck back, that company no longer exists. You do not want UD back, you want a memory.

Just because you repeat something over and over again, doesn't make it true.

I don't want old UD back, the new UD would be just fine
I don't even think Panini sucks. I grew up on Fleer, Fleer Ultra and Flair.
But Exquisite and even in some cases Ultimate and Chronology still holds better designs in many cases and its 10 to 15 years older.

Any time someone mentions anything to do with UD your ears prick up and it's only a matter of seconds until you just have to post. And here you are.

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Supply and demand. How many years did stores lose money on products or maybe break even? Getting sick of people acting like they are somehow victims in this. You don’t like the price, don’t buy it. Obviously others are willing to pay up and Panini, being a for profit company, is trying to maximize their profits. I don’t understand this mentality of Panini screwing people over? You act as if you have no choice to buy or not to buy. I get it, it sucks. I collect non-sports mostly and have had to deal with massive markups too. I just changed my collecting habits, stopped opening wax cold turkey, and found new hobbies to spend my time and money on.

Oh yes. I'm a total victim.

Good lord man. Get a grip. People are allowed to complain. Your sh*t must smell like roses and you've never complained in your life..

I'm not talking about Eminence. The prices are wild across the board. And then you get investor people celebrating the crazy prices because all they care about is the value.

I do buy what I like. And I got some retail this year which was nice.

But how dare people wish they could buy more boxes to BUST! The nerve.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Just because you repeat something over and over again, doesn't make it true.

I don't want old UD back, the new UD would be just fine
I don't even think Panini sucks. I grew up on Fleer, Fleer Ultra and Flair.
But Exquisite and even in some cases Ultimate and Chronology still holds better designs in many cases and its 10 to 15 years older.

Any time someone mentions anything to do with UD your ears prick up and it's only a matter of seconds until you just have to post. And here you are.



Oh yes. I'm a total victim.

Good lord man. Get a grip. People are allowed to complain. Your sh*t must smell like roses and you've never complained in your life..

I'm not talking about Eminence. The prices are wild across the board. And then you get investor people celebrating the crazy prices because all they care about is the value.

I do buy what I like. And I got some retail this year which was nice.

But how dare people wish they could buy more boxes to BUST! The nerve.

Plenty of posts and not a word, but you had to repeat your usual falsehoods and we responded.

You grew up, you are relying on a memory of what used to be as I said and then you talk about old products and proved my point again.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by tmar214

Panini just doesn't have the names to do a high end set like eminence. Maybe they could get around that if they put some effort in to the design but eminence once again looks like an end of year money grab. Somewhat of a floor because the names are decent but whats the chase thats going to get people excited to enter breaks or open at these crazy prices. Is their a single 50k card in the product. People don't want precious metal in high end cards. They want huge patch windows, game used jerseys, logomen and cards that are on a different level from other releases. If all these eminence cards had a different label their designs would easily fit in to noir, impeccable, opulence or any other high end set they release thats 1/10th the cost.




Do you buy any product to open or is it all for profit? Based off all your posts its to try to profit. Someone who is only looking to buy items below market value to resell higher isn't exactly a customer that has any value to a business. Especially when they can't afford to buy in bulk.

If you want to be involved in the opening wax side of the hobby you can still do it the same way as always. Accept the fact that when you open boxes you lose most of the time and enjoy it for the experience / gamble.

Lol I can open wax the same way as always? I could spend next to no time and get retail, hobby, and FOTL for an affordable price and they were easy to get until 2020. Now the prices are either astronomical or retail is impossible to find.

I was a collector only for 20+ years. I never bought a single thing in the hobby with the intention to resell until the end of 2017. Even before the price explosion this year, in 2018 I spent more money on Randy Moss cards than I made take home pay or maybe even before taxes money from my job. That coupled with the prices now and how much potential gains I’ve lost by not holding wax sealed long term have completely drove me out of collecting. I would open all retail I found in the past. I've opened tons of hobby over the last 25 years. I have unfortunately opened a bunch of FOTL boxes. I ripped every single pack and box of 19-20 Prizm basketball retail I found into early 2020. Which was more than I have found for everything else total in retail in the 11 months since then. Plus I have probably spent over 250 times the amount of time looking for it. No average person with an average job can afford to collect anything worth having only anymore. You could have bought more with $10k in 2018 or most of 2019 than $50k would now get you anytime over the last 9 months. Obviously excluding now very tough to find retail at MSRP.

Either way I don't see how any person making less than $75k a year can afford it anymore. Certainly without doing a bunch of selling while buying to collect. Even when I had a job I wasn't making anywhere near $75k.

[Paderborn1907]

Wow only 20 FOTL Boxes, they might sell out immediately! There’re definetely 20 high rollers out their who don’t care about that kind of money.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Just because you repeat something over and over again, doesn't make it true.

I don't want old UD back, the new UD would be just fine
I don't even think Panini sucks. I grew up on Fleer, Fleer Ultra and Flair.
But Exquisite and even in some cases Ultimate and Chronology still holds better designs in many cases and its 10 to 15 years older.

Any time someone mentions anything to do with UD your ears prick up and it's only a matter of seconds until you just have to post. And here you are.



Oh yes. I'm a total victim.

Good lord man. Get a grip. People are allowed to complain. Your sh*t must smell like roses and you've never complained in your life..

I'm not talking about Eminence. The prices are wild across the board. And then you get investor people celebrating the crazy prices because all they care about is the value.

I do buy what I like. And I got some retail this year which was nice.

But how dare people wish they could buy more boxes to BUST! The nerve.

Yes, you are behaving like a victim because you are bashing Panini as if they should just be handing stuff out. If they printed products into oblivion people would then be crying about that.

They cried about the bots getting all the products.
They cried about dutch auctions.
They cried about the floor being too high.

Sorry, it's a new era. I miss being able to open a blaster or two when I felt like it. Had the itch so bad I almost bought a Garbage Pail Kids Chrome blaster to open. Instead, I bought a new video game for the $20 and spent my time with that.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to complain. My point is you are acting as if Panini owes you something. The fact that they aren't giving into your demands means they are shady or doing something underhanded. They're not and your anger is misplaced.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

No average person with an average job can afford to collect anything worth having only anymore. You could have bought more with $10k in 2018 or most of 2019 than $50k would now get you anytime over the last 9 months. Obviously excluding now very tough to find retail at MSRP.

You are not a collector. All you do is bitch and moan about how Topps and Panini and Walmart and Target robbed you of wax you were entitled to. All you talk about is money. Money, money, money. You literally just said in this post that the amount of MONEY you lost by not holding sealed wax drove you away from the hobby.

You should take a step back sometime and maybe you would figure out why trading cards are so stressful for you. You really need help and I hope you get it. This is an incredibly fun time to be in the hobby. It's never been easier to buy and sell today to add to your PC with minimal out of pocket cost.

[volblorx8634]

What I have learned from this thread:

1. Panini sucks because I'm the one that should be profiting from the hobby, not them.

2. Panini sucks because I should be able to buy wax and resell it for 5x cost, and that's nearly impossible to do now.

3. Panini is who sucks because they're the ones charging so much for wax even though everything would be cheaper if everyone stopped buying the wax and into breaks.

4. I should be making all the money, not Panini.





Panini is running their business. The consumers are consuming their product. When and if the product becomes as bad as everyone claims, people would stop buying it.

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[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

What I have learned from this thread:

1. Panini sucks because I'm the one that should be profiting from the hobby, not them.

2. Panini sucks because I should be able to buy wax and resell it for 5x cost, and that's nearly impossible to do now.

3. Panini is who sucks because they're the ones charging so much for wax even though everything would be cheaper if everyone stopped buying the wax and into breaks.

4. I should be making all the money, not Panini.





Panini is running their business. The consumers are consuming their product. When and if the product becomes as bad as everyone claims, people would stop buying it.

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Disagree, good or bad the products sell just because of all the gamblers out there that are in it for the quick fix, they don't collect cards, when they do hit, they turn around & just sell to the breaker for credit. Your crazy if you don't think panini already knows they don't have to put out great products. The checklist will always show that

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by kobemagee29

Disagree, good or bad the products sell just because of all the gamblers out there that are in it for the quick fix, they don't collect cards, when they do hit, they turn around & just sell to the breaker for credit. Your crazy if you don't think panini already knows they don't have to put out great products. The checklist will always show that

What do you think would happen if Upper Deck got the license tomorrow? The company that is charging $8k for an MJ framed photo.

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by kobemagee29

Disagree, good or bad the products sell just because of all the gamblers out there that are in it for the quick fix, they don't collect cards, when they do hit, they turn around & just sell to the breaker for credit. Your crazy if you don't think panini already knows they don't have to put out great products. The checklist will always show that

So what is Panini as a business supposed to say? "No please, everyone, don't give us the $50,000 you're willing to give us for this product. It really isn't that great, so only $1,000 will suffice."?

Who cares why there's demand, it's there. It doesn't matter if it's because hard-core Eric Paschall collectors are willing to pay $50,000 for a shot at his Eminence cards or because gamblers, flippers, investors, etc. are using cards to launder their drug money. As long as people are paying the money, Panini will, and I'm sure many business and economic minds would argue SHOULD, keep charging it.

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[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

So what is Panini as a business supposed to say? "No please, everyone, don't give us the $50,000 you're willing to give us for this product. It really isn't that great, so only $1,000 will suffice."?

Who cares why there's demand, it's there. It doesn't matter if it's because hard-core Eric Paschall collectors are willing to pay $50,000 for a shot at his Eminence cards or because gamblers, flippers, investors, etc. are using cards to launder their drug money. As long as people are paying the money, Panini will, and I'm sure many business and economic minds would argue SHOULD, keep charging it.

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your post has nothing to do with i said, my point has always been that panini does not have to put out anything good becuase they know the breakers will sell it regardless. Go back and read my 1st post, it was in regards to members complaining about the 50k eminence price tag and there being no luka, giannis, tatum,ect. Just like how i said we need UD back so then maybe there is some competition

[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

What do you think would happen if Upper Deck got the license tomorrow? The company that is charging $8k for an MJ framed photo.

has MJ stuff seen a surge like everything else?? Your comparing a MJ autograph to panini's 50k eminence book price, guess i don't understand your MJ comparison

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by kobemagee29

your post has nothing to do with i said, my point has always been that panini does not have to put out anything good becuase they know the breakers will sell it regardless. Go back and read my 1st post, it was in regards to members complaining about the 50k eminence price tag and there being no luka, giannis, tatum,ect. Just like how i said we need UD back so then maybe there is some competition

Sorry, I didn't go back and reread your sequence of posts. I agree with you, Panini for sure slacks on what they put out because they have a monopoly and no competition. But my point still kind of applies: people keep buying and they keep making money, why do anything different?

That said, you'll never hear me disagreeing with the fact that UD, Topps, or anyone else back in the basketball card game could only be good for the hobby.

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[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

What do you think would happen if Upper Deck got the license tomorrow? The company that is charging $8k for an MJ framed photo.

and if UD got there license back and did a exquisite case for 50k, what do you think happens to panini's 50 k eminence box. My guess is it would drop big time in price.

[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

Sorry, I didn't go back and reread your sequence of posts. I agree with you, Panini for sure slacks on what they put out because they have a monopoly and no competition. But my point still kind of applies: people keep buying and they keep making money, why do anything different?

That said, you'll never hear me disagreeing with the fact that UD, Topps, or anyone else back in the basketball card game could only be good for the hobby.

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yes, i agree, thats why i said panini has no reason to change anything when regardless people keep buying it, members should quit complaining is all i'm saying if there going to just keep buying

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by kobemagee29

and if UD got there license back and did a exquisite case for 50k, what do you think happens to panini's 50 k eminence box. My guess is it would drop big time in price.

Panini has an exclusive license on Zion. Eminence is a product driven by the RCs. I don’t think it would move the way you think it would.

More competition would be good. But distributors would still collude to keep prices sky high.

[kobemagee29]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Panini has an exclusive license on Zion. Eminence is a product driven by the RCs. I don’t think it would move the way you think it would.

More competition would be good. But distributors would still collude to keep prices sky high.

i'm not one convinced that the distributors are the ones to blame on the ridiculous prices. I have one card shop that still continues to give me great prices on product, which is nice i'm able to see the price, but unfortunately, 75% of the time they get allocated on the orders and don't get much or any sometimes. So that is why i don't believe its the distributors behind the prices. example, they pre ordered me a case of 2019-20 panini immaculate bk with tax at around 3800, so that tells me the case was offered to them for i'm guessing 2k, so after there mark up and taxes i would of been able to buy at around 3800.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by kobemagee29

i'm not one convinced that the distributors are the ones to blame on the ridiculous prices. I have one card shop that still continues to give me great prices on product, which is nice i'm able to see the price, but unfortunately, 75% of the time they get allocated on the orders and don't get much or any sometimes. So that is why i don't believe its the distributors behind the prices. example, they pre ordered me a case of 2019-20 panini immaculate bk with tax at around 3800, so that tells me the case was offered to them for i'm guessing 2k, so after there mark up and taxes i would of been able to buy at around 3800.

With our distributors we are frequently seeing where we can get limited product at the suggested price because of alleged “cuts”. However the next week when we want to reorder that Immaculate case we can now get as many as we want for $9000-10000. Yes the distributors are having a large impact on pricing in the market.

[Miz]

I think eminence will be kinda cool

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[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You are not a collector. All you do is bitch and moan about how Topps and Panini and Walmart and Target robbed you of wax you were entitled to. All you talk about is money. Money, money, money. You literally just said in this post that the amount of MONEY you lost by not holding sealed wax drove you away from the hobby.

You should take a step back sometime and maybe you would figure out why trading cards are so stressful for you. You really need help and I hope you get it. This is an incredibly fun time to be in the hobby. It's never been easier to buy and sell today to add to your PC with minimal out of pocket cost.

Panini has not screwed me. Target has not screwed me. Topps canceled my Finest Flashbacks order for no reason but that is it. Walmart screwed me out of probably about $7-8k worth of 19-20 Prizm basketball. But the worst part was unlike the many others they screwed I was charged and had to pay the bills 2 months in advance. While they were shipping out others orders they didn't charge until they shipped them they were canceling almost all my orders. So yeah I for sure have a gripe with Walmart but not the other 3. I could be wrong, but didn't you not renew your Montgomery club membership instead of paying $200? How any person that wants modern cards from Topps wouldn't pay $200 for that membership is beyond me. It's the best deal there is for a collector right now to get all those online boxes, sets, exclusives from Topps for $200. Which in todays hobby $200 is less than nothing. Even if you didn't I know some people did not renew it by choice. Most mind boggling move I've seen in a long time.

I'm no longer a collector. Yes one of the 3 reasons I was driven away from collecting was the amount of money I could have made. Sorry that I decided I would rather have a chance to one day retire than have a big card collection and be broke and working every day for the rest of my life. What a crime. In less than 2 years the sports card community has gone from 95% collector 5% investor to at least 95% investor/flipper. If you are a collector or especially collecting only you are now in the vast minority.

Not that it matters, but below is proof I was a collector for 20+ years. It was fun. I really enjoyed collecting for a long time. If I won the lotto tomorrow I'd go right back to collecting only. Below isn't even what my whole Randy Moss collection was just the majority. If it matters I could also probably find photos of my Griffey and Dez Bryant pc which were both at least 50 autos. I probably "collected" only more than just about anybody making under $100k a year.

https://myalbum.com/album/G9sUiaPV13OQ

https://myalbum.com/album/MI47FUn2ZPxp

https://myalbum.com/album/8G7nT82Ov0QI

Also, as much as people hate me complaining how could you not look at the money? Dude, my take home pay from work was under $40k a year. At this point I may be looking at close to $1 million potential profit I left on the table. I could work the next 30 years of my life and not have saved what I could have made in 2-3 years by just putting everything in storage and not looking at it for a couple years. I don't care how much you like collecting. Unless you're already rich, how could you not care about life changing money?

[Miz]

Eminence = cool
Internet arguments over non issues= not cool

[Supercomputers]

So does this FOTL Drop at all or go at 50K list.

[Miz]

Originally Posted by Supercomputers

So does this FOTL Drop at all or go at 50K list.

Drops heavily

[mcgee2134]

Originally Posted by Supercomputers

So does this FOTL Drop at all or go at 50K list.

The non-FOTL boxes were preselling at $18k, there's no way these will go near $50k. None of the FOTL dutch auctions sell anywhere near the opening price.

I'd guess near the floor and possibly not until the floor.