Why are Muhammad Ali auto cards undervalued compared to the other greats (GOATs) ?

[ReggieBush22]

An UD Ali auto just sold today for $3,600.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16588386941...mis&media=COPY

[rainmaker]

Yowza that’s a heck of a hammer for a 9/9 Beckett graded card.

[nabzy28]

Quality stuff is moving up, again, in some instances. Whether the actual bottom is in on some of these cards remains to be seen, but I am being outbid on numbered Brady stuff, even when I'm bidding like it's 6 to 8 months ago.

It's an interesting spot on some cards. While the majority of money may have already been 'lost', from peak to these lows, there's still the chance of a huge percentage loss. I'm seeing this as those with the funds to invest looking at it that way. Losing thousands off of a quality card from peak to now vs. the chance of it falling only marginally more - perhaps only hundreds - can be a risk worth taking if you're holding long term.

[Charismatic44th]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

An UD Ali auto just sold today for $3,600.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16588386941...mis&media=COPY

Bidding looks a little weird on that sale though, seems either like one person really wanted it, which could definitely be the case, or the bid was run up by a shill bidder

[Dacubs]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Can you post a scan?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Personally I feel there are better options in the leaf set (sone cool action photos over large images of the champs face with upper deck. made even more desirable due to price point. A licensed Ali is a licensed Ali in my eyes. If you end up buying an upper deck auto be sure to examine the signature quality close as the ink bubbles on many of them. Can’t go wrong either way. Good luck!

I think Leaf did a great job with some of their Ali offerings. My only issue is the quality of the autos themselves. Ali's penmanship obviously suffered greatly due to his degradation of motor skills, so most look like illegible scribbles. You definitely pay a premium for his UD stuff, though. I think in the end, there's no real right or wrong answer for hard-signed Ali stuff. His lore will continue to grow with each passing generation.

[ReggieBush22]

What are your thoughts on these? 100% legit?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17561856888...mis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18578141190...mis&media=COPY

[rainmaker]

Yes those sport kings are legit autos.

[ReggieBush22]

What are your guys thoughts on Steiner stuff? I know they are legit but what makes me a bit hesitant is their COA has no matching serial number. But stuff like below has a clean sig.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26246877827...mis&media=COPY

[aggie4ever]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

What are your guys thoughts on Steiner stuff? I know they are legit but what makes me a bit hesitant is their COA has no matching serial number. But stuff like below has a clean sig.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26246877827...mis&media=COPY

I would pass on any Steiner Ali stuff if the COA is missing. Good chance the hologram was taken from another item.

Now, on the Steiner Ali autos that also have an Online Authentics numbered sticker, I would trust those. It's my understanding Steiner used OA on multiple Ali signings.

There is one on the item you linked to, and if you go to the Online Authentics website and type in the number from the sticker on the item, it tells you the date it was signed and includes a picture of the autograph. The auto does match on this item to the OA website, although you can see that the auto has faded from blue to black. I would personally pass based on the fading...

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by aggie4ever

I would pass on any Steiner Ali stuff if the COA is missing. Good chance the hologram was taken from another item.

Now, on the Steiner Ali autos that also have an Online Authentics numbered sticker, I would trust those. It's my understanding Steiner used OA on multiple Ali signings.

There is one on the item you linked to, and if you go to the Online Authentics website and type in the number from the sticker on the item, it tells you the date it was signed and includes a picture of the autograph. The auto does match on this item to the OA website, although you can see that the auto has faded from blue to black. I would personally pass based on the fading...

Thanks for the info.

I didn't know this but i stumbled upon another Ali Steiner auto but this one has matching serial numbers ala UDA. I thought they didn't do this. If it's legit, that's a much safer form of COA.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26549102071...mis&media=COPY

[rainmaker]

Ali signed a TON of items over the years. But there are also a TON of fake Ali signatures out. There really is no reason to pick up anything that doesn’t have a rock solid authenticated history. Also no reason to overpay. But a nice Ali signature should be in every collection! I have 3 cards and a glove (which I got in person maybe 30 years ago).

Feel free to post in here if you decide to make a purchase we can help to be sure you are buying a legit item.

*I don’t believe tpg authentication is all that trustworthy with Ali. The way he signed is simple and not all that challenging to mimic but there are subtleties which make an authentic signature easier to spot once you know what to look for. I’ve seen too many autos that don’t look quite right to me in various slabs.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

What are your thoughts on these? 100% legit?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17561856888...mis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18578141190...mis&media=COPY

Picked up both of the Ali autos above for about $900. I plan to send them in to SGC. I think they were solid deals given the rarity of on card autos of Ali even though the sigs could be better. Thoughts?

[aggie4ever]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

Picked up both of the Ali autos above for about $900. I plan to send them in to SGC. I think they were solid deals given the rarity of on card autos of Ali even though the sigs could be better. Thoughts?

Great pickups, those were great prices! I had those in my watchlist, but forgot about them since I was watching the two Master Collection autos that ended last night in the PWCC weekly auction around the same time.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by aggie4ever

Great pickups, those were great prices! I had those in my watchlist, but forgot about them since I was watching the two Master Collection autos that ended last night in the PWCC weekly auction around the same time.

I don't have an account with PWCC. How much did they go for? About $2,500 each?

[aggie4ever]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

I don't have an account with PWCC. How much did they go for? About $2,500 each?

No, much higher than that. A regular auto graded PSA 8 with a 10 auto sold for $4560, and surprisingly the nicer card, a Robe auto /50 also graded a PSA 8 with a 10 auto sold for a little cheaper at $4320. I was a bidder on the robe auto, but couldn't go past $4k since I was paying 1/5 that just a few years ago.

[rainmaker]

wow ali popping off! its quite a thing for the upper deck to hammer 10x the sport kings. I may be off here but I believe the non-upper deck licensed autos will narrow the gap quickly once the upper deck break into the 5-7k range and price most everyone out.

[Tonic3]

Man I'm really really glad I bought the UD Master Collection back before things started skyrocketing. And luckily I avoided the dreaded 1/1 in the mystery pack.....got the glove/auto which is awesome.

[rainmaker]

There is a nice leaf fight worn swatch/auto on eBay (probstein) this week. Should be interesting to watch if it finishes high (o/u $2500 is where I'm at) we might be seeing a shift in the Ali market. Im a player on this one would love to add it to my collection.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

Picked up both of the Ali autos above for about $900. I plan to send them in to SGC. I think they were solid deals given the rarity of on card autos of Ali even though the sigs could be better. Thoughts?

Awesome buys! I was literally the next highest bidder on both. Would have bid higher if not for some personal things going on now. Great buys. I mean in a market where EVERY player has practically gone down in price in the past year or so, Ali stuff has slowly crept up or at least been stable.

He just doesn’t have much autos out here. I mean really even if there’s just a few people in this thread going after his stuff that alone will keep prices competitive. Unlike other stars/autos where there’s so much supply there’s multiple high end cards ending daily.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

There is a nice leaf fight worn swatch/auto on eBay (probstein) this week. Should be interesting to watch if it finishes high (o/u $2500 is where I'm at) we might be seeing a shift in the Ali market. Im a player on this one would love to add it to my collection.

Good luck! I was planning on bidding but I’m sure there will be a lot of action on it.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

There is a nice leaf fight worn swatch/auto on eBay (probstein) this week. Should be interesting to watch if it finishes high (o/u $2500 is where I'm at) we might be seeing a shift in the Ali market. Im a player on this one would love to add it to my collection.

Yeah, but like a lot of the Sportkings and Leafs autos, the auto looks terrible. I think it doesn't crack $1,500. Maybe peak at $1,800ish given Probstein's audience.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38545439102...mis&media=COPY

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

Awesome buys! I was literally the next highest bidder on both. Would have bid higher if not for some personal things going on now. Great buys. I mean in a market where EVERY player has practically gone down in price in the past year or so, Ali stuff has slowly crept up or at least been stable.

He just doesn’t have much autos out here. I mean really even if there’s just a few people in this thread going after his stuff that alone will keep prices competitive. Unlike other stars/autos where there’s so much supply there’s multiple high end cards ending daily.

It's only UD, Leaf and Sportkings for legit, non counterfeited on-card autos right? What's the total supply? 1,000?

Yeah, long term they look like a GREAT investment at the going prices. Ali is an icon. He'll never be forgotten.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

It's only UD, Leaf and Sportkings for legit, non counterfeited on-card autos right? What's the total supply? 1,000?

Yeah, long term they look like a GREAT investment at the going prices. Ali is an icon. He'll never be forgotten.

Yes pretty much. Early 90’s he was in Classics & Pro Line - some of those are legit but it’s heavily counterfeited. I think someone may have done the math on a previous page. It’s more than 1000. From the 2000 Master Collection I believe there’s 470 total autos in the 250 sets. 2012 leaf greatest has 750. I’d estimate other leaf products may have a total of 200 or so Ali autos - I may be off here, but most if not all are 1/1’s I believe. Sports kings may have about 200 total also, I think someone broke it down on a previous page. So basically somewhere between 1500-2000 on card autos of Ali out there. (Not including early 90’s stuff).

I think the 1 thing that could really explode long term pricing is if panini or some brand starts mass producing boxing cards at some point like they are doing for ufc stuff now. That would get boxing collectors into the card game and the Ali stuff would be seen as gold mines. That doesn’t even need to happen for the values to at very least steadily creep up over time. At least in my opinion.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

Yes pretty much. Early 90’s he was in Classics & Pro Line - some of those are legit but it’s heavily counterfeited. I think someone may have done the math on a previous page. It’s more than 1000. From the 2000 Master Collection I believe there’s 470 total autos in the 250 sets. 2012 leaf greatest has 750. I’d estimate other leaf products may have a total of 200 or so Ali autos - I may be off here, but most if not all are 1/1’s I believe. Sports kings may have about 200 total also, I think someone broke it down on a previous page. So basically somewhere between 1500-2000 on card autos of Ali out there. (Not including early 90’s stuff).

I think the 1 thing that could really explode long term pricing is if panini or some brand starts mass producing boxing cards at some point like they are doing for ufc stuff now. That would get boxing collectors into the card game and the Ali stuff would be seen as gold mines. That doesn’t even need to happen for the values to at very least steadily creep up over time. At least in my opinion.

Thanks for breakdown. Still in the grand scheme of things, not that much for an icon like Ali.

As for boxing, i doubt it. I'm a big boxing fan myself and boxing just has too many issues. The structure of the sport would have to change for it to have a chance at gaining popularity.