Biggest “What if” Players?

[rms13]

Originally Posted by callou2131

Reminds me of paul walker. Same thing with him, but cause he is dead people want to make him a saint. He was a groomer.

Not to mention the fact that he died street racing in a residential area where he could have easily killed some innocent people.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by callou2131

Reminds me of paul walker. Same thing with him, but cause he is dead people want to make him a saint. He was a groomer.

Let’s do Muhammad Ali:

-Fathered a child with a 16 year old when he was 34.

-Married Belinda Boyd who he first met when she was 10 and he was 18.

-Allegedly had a sexual relationship with a 12 year old.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by rms13

Not to mention the fact that he died street racing in a residential area where he could have easily killed some innocent people.

Walker wasn’t even driving; his friend was. And while they were going 80 MPH in a 45 MPH zone there there was no evidence they were racing anyone.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Walker wasn’t even driving; his friend was. And while they were going 80 MPH in a 45 MPH zone there there was no evidence they were racing anyone.

Well geez, when do we make him a saint?

[callou2131]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Let’s do Muhammad Ali:

-Fathered a child with a 16 year old when he was 34.

-Married Belinda Boyd who he first met when she was 10 and he was 25.

-Allegedly had a sexual relationship with a 12 year old.

Yup. Karl Malone... there's so many people that are just scum that we put on a pedestal because they can run, punch, tell jokes, act etc. and I will never understand it.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Wow.

It’s sad how little people actually know of Roberto.

I remember watching a documentary on him years ago:
https://youtu.be/jgDD3yKbwVA?si=WgkaRS9Y3SUTvpkk

He did not have a good relationship with the media:

Clemente was a native of Puerto Rico with no more than a high-school education. Spanish was his first language, and initially, when he started playing professional baseball, his only one.

And that contributed to a mutually antagonistic relationship between Clemente and the press. The writers were only too happy to document his struggles with English and the reputation he earned – unfairly – as a hypochondriac and malingerer. He in turn had no interest in building any kind of relationship with the people who refused to recognize his greatness. It was a relationship that had only started to warm at his untimely death.

“The fans are good to me,” Clemente said in an Associated Press article in spring training in 1969. “Only the writers are bad.”

https://sabr.org/journal/article/the...and-the-press/

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

You’ve said alot of dumb things.

This one might be the dumberest.

I'm not sure what is dumb about viewing Clemente's sudden death and the circumstances around it as enhancing his place in history. How many historical figures are remembered more because of their deaths? JFK? Martin Luther King?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by StateEx

Since he came up in another post, what about Curt Schilling? If it wasn't for his mouth (not to mention the whole "video game" thing) he'd be in the HOF (IMHO). Heck, he might even be beloved.

I'd argue his controversial behavior has kept him in the spotlight. If he had kept his mouth shut and his opinions to himself and been voted into the Hall, he wouldn't have gotten all the attention he's gotten.

Players who have truly made a mark on the game don't need the validation of the Hall. Schilling helped break the Red Sox curse and formed an epic pitching tandem with Randy Johnson to defeat the mighty Yankees in game 7 -- he'll ultimately be remembered for those moments.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by callou2131

Yup. Karl Malone... there's so many people that are just scum that we put on a pedestal because they can run, punch, tell jokes, act etc. and I will never understand it.

The funny thing is that Malone is kind of canceled. But I'm guessing it's more based on his personality then his personal life.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I'd argue his controversial behavior has kept him in the spotlight. If he had kept his mouth shut and his opinions to himself and been voted into the Hall, he wouldn't have gotten all the attention he's gotten.

Players who have truly made a mark on the game don't need the validation of the Hall. Schilling helped break the Red Sox curse and formed an epic pitching tandem with Randy Johnson to defeat the mighty Yankees in game 7 -- he'll ultimately be remembered for those moments.

Another reason why the HOF is bogus. Schilling should definitley be in the HOF but he won't be because of politics. I can understand not putting Rose in or guys that failed PED tests. I don't agree with those either but I can at least see the argument for those but not for Schilling.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by callou2131

Do you think these stats are HOF worthy?
W L ERA WHIP
165 87 2.76 1.106

Hint... its Sandy Koufax. Im not a Trout fan, and have no cards, But he was by far the Most dominant player Of a 10 year stretch.

Koufax was a late bloomer, not a star out of the gate. In fact Koufax last year was 26-8 and 27-9 his last two seasons respectively. He also retired due to injury but rattled off 4 straight CY and an MVP. The rate we are going Trouts career will be similar to Pujols, heavy on the front end and maybe hang around 10 years and limp (literally) into 3,000 hits and 500+ HR.

If you asked fans to name the top 5 starters in history, Koufax will come up.
If you ask them to do the same for top 3 OF, Trout will not come up.


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[rms13]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Koufax was a late bloomer, not a star out of the gate. In fact Koufax last year was 26-8 and 27-9 his last two seasons respectively. He also retired due to injury but rattled off 4 straight CY and an MVP. The rate we are going Trouts career will be similar to Pujols, heavy on the front end and maybe hang around 10 years and limp (literally) into 3,000 hits and 500+ HR.

If you asked fans to name the top 5 starters in history, Koufax will come up.
If you ask them to do the same for top 3 OF, Trout will not come up.


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I'm an admitted Trout hater but even I have a hard time making an argument against him being in the HOF. His career numbers right now are almost identical to Ralph Kiner. But Trout has a higher avg , much higher WAR, almost twice as many AS games, ROY and 3 MVP. And Kiner is in the HOF. The only players with 3 or more MVP that are not in the HOF are Bonds and A Rod which has nothing to do with their on feild performance. I also think the HOF is a sham so I don't really care one way or the other but I'm sure he's a lock even if he doesn't play again.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Koufax was a late bloomer, not a star out of the gate. In fact Koufax last year was 26-8 and 27-9 his last two seasons respectively. He also retired due to injury but rattled off 4 straight CY and an MVP. The rate we are going Trouts career will be similar to Pujols, heavy on the front end and maybe hang around 10 years and limp (literally) into 3,000 hits and 500+ HR.

If you asked fans to name the top 5 starters in history, Koufax will come up.
If you ask them to do the same for top 3 OF, Trout will not come up.


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Why does when you have the great seasons matter? If Koufax gets into the HOF because of his 5 season run (and we ignore the first 7 season where he went 54-53) then Trout will get in because of his 8 year run of dominance.

The difference between Trout and Pujols is that Pujols just fell off and Trout's lack of numbers is due to injuries and the Covid year. Since 2020, Trout has had a 162 game pace of 35+ home runs every season. It's not like he's just been hanging on, compiling stats like Pujols did.

There really hasn't been a drop off in Trout offensive game and without the injuries he also would have racked up a couple more top 10 MVP finishes.

[robert0629]

I guess Denny McLain would fall into the category of players who made bad choices to ruin their careers.

At a young age McLain was one of the most dominant pitchers MLB ever saw. For a five year stretch from the age of 21 to 25, McLain went 108-51 with a 2.95 ERA. He won two Cy Young Awards (the second was a shared award with Mike Cuellar), an MVP, was part of the 1968 World Series Champion Detroit Tigers winning game six on just two days of rest, had three 20 win seasons, and made three All-Star appearances. In 1968 he became the first pitcher in over 30 years to win 30 games in a season, and he’ll likely be the last.

Unfortunately, the next few years didn’t go so well for him. He faced multiple suspensions for gambling, and for carrying a gun on a team flight. He couldn’t keep himself in shape, and eventually lost his fastball. He went from leading the league with 31 wins in 1968 to leading the league in losses with 22 just three seasons later. By the age of 29 he was out of baseball.

[NHRonin]

Fred Lynn - injuries robbed him of time but if he played his entire career at Fenway, he’d have been a HOFer.

[Melagoo]

Bob Horner

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

Walker wasn’t even driving; his friend was. And while they were going 80 MPH in a 45 MPH zone there there was no evidence they were racing anyone.

Knew a elementary kid who around the age of 18 hung around a kid who was sketchy. The young man who I knew was in a car when the sketchy kid pulled a armed robbery. Everyone in the car was arrested for armed robbery because they were all in the car together.

I guarantee that there are groups that have done far worse that harbor each other to protect those at the top when the dominoes start to fall.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Koufax was a late bloomer, not a star out of the gate. In fact Koufax last year was 26-8 and 27-9 his last two seasons respectively. He also retired due to injury but rattled off 4 straight CY and an MVP. The rate we are going Trouts career will be similar to Pujols, heavy on the front end and maybe hang around 10 years and limp (literally) into 3,000 hits and 500+ HR.

If you asked fans to name the top 5 starters in history, Koufax will come up.
If you ask them to do the same for top 3 OF, Trout will not come up.


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Chuck Klein possibly had the most dominant 5 consecutive seasons in the history of baseball and struggled to be elected. There is something to be said about being a top tier player who is durable, who has done it for a dozen years having more value than a Pinnacle performer for half the time? Durability is a huge factor in achieving counting numbers because the more often a great player takes the field, the more often that player can create positive outcomes.

[jrinne17]

Originally Posted by Rbradleigh

And yet Nash understood the birds and the bees, shocking.


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I think understanding that is just natural human behavior.

His situation is very sad and in my opinion one of the biggest what could have been ball players ever.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Chuck Klein possibly had the most dominant 5 consecutive seasons in the history of baseball and struggled to be elected. There is something to be said about being a top tier player who is durable, who has done it for a dozen years having more value than a Pinnacle performer for half the time? Durability is a huge factor in achieving counting numbers because the more often a great player takes the field, the more often that player can create positive outcomes.

I honestly believe that if Trout were to have ended his career on a high note, even without huge key numbers, he would be more highly regarded long term by baseball fans and historians. Coming back year after year and having those seasons end or only play partially for 5-6 years at this stage in his career waters down what he did for a decade.
He may very well go on a 6-8 year span of MVP level seasons but we could see exactly what is going on for that same amount of time just the same. If he is a big a fan of the game as we all believe he is, them he knows he is going into the HOF. With his contract though he also knows there is no reason to rush back to a garbage team.


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[Stifle]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

I honestly believe that if Trout were to have ended his career on a high note, even without huge key numbers, he would be more highly regarded long term by baseball fans and historians. Coming back year after year and having those seasons end or only play partially for 5-6 years at this stage in his career waters down what he did for a decade.
He may very well go on a 6-8 year span of MVP level seasons but we could see exactly what is going on for that same amount of time just the same. If he is a big a fan of the game as we all believe he is, them he knows he is going into the HOF. With his contract though he also knows there is no reason to rush back to a garbage team.


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A decade ? In the 14 years he has been in the Majors, he has had at least 600 Plate Appearances 7 of those years while having 507 or much fewer 7 other seasons. His counting stats because of durability have crushed his resume. The times where he was missing occurred when most players peak.

Look at the counting numbers of his contemporaries and it defines the impact that was left off the playing field.

[Wrightfan85]

Originally Posted by Brady7799

what if Sidd Finch was real?

His arm would've gone with the ball to the catcher on the first pitch

[theredmenace]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Chuck Klein possibly had the most dominant 5 consecutive seasons in the history of baseball

What?

[rms13]

Originally Posted by theredmenace

What?

Exactly. Klein was legitimately dominant for 5 straight years but he didn't even have the most dominant 5 years during that 5 year span. Ruth, Gehrig and Foxx all had better five years from 29-33.

[ThoseBackPages]

Gooden