Has anyone seen an increase in strange communication during negotiations/transactions

[Blazed]

Is anyone rally surprised a "lawyer" is making the simplest shi look like blue prints for a Space X rocket?

Your asking price should include shipping and fees (example $50 dlvd)

If the buyer accepts and states they're paying paypal, fees are already rolled in. If they pay another way and you want to give a discount, go for it

Buying sports cards is simple, people complicate it

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Everyone should be upfront with every term!

Why is this so hard for you people to grasp? Is buying and selling baseball cards the only experience you have in the real world? I negotiate contracts for the sale of goods daily. In every other area of business, all terms are spelled out during the negotiation. If you want a term, you either bring it up, or it's not included. Nothing is left to assumption or your interpretation of what the industry standard is. THAT is a stupid way to do business.

In every other arena, all terms are itemized and separated. You have the price of the goods, shipping method and price, tax, fees, etc... all spelled out individually. Why would sports cards be different?

If you are paying via paypal, say so. Simple as that. If you get to the end of the transaction and have not mentioned it, and bring it up then, the seller has every right to say they don't accept that form of payment, and either renegotiate or walk away.

That's how business is done. No matter how you insulated, basement-dwellers think it should be done.

I agree, and have said multiple times, that a seller should state methods of payment and fees upfront. That doesn't mean that if they aren't stated a buyer has no responsibility to bring it up. It's on both parties to get to the end of the transaction with all terms spelled out, not assumed. This whole thing was OP whining about getting to the end and not having both parties understand and agree to a term. That's on him as much as the seller.

When you go to a grocery store the standard is either credit card or cash. Stores will state “3% upcharge if using credit card” as transparency to tell the buyer BEFORE the purchase what to expect.

To my knowledge and my experience on earth, I’ve never seen or heard of anyone walking into their local grocery store and announcing to the manager that they will be trying to pay for their items with pesos, bitcoin, a bar of gold or any other method other than cash or card. That’s because some things go without saying. So generally speaking, 95% of the card industry take PayPal. The ones that don’t raise an immediate scammer flag, it’s it’s assumed PayPal is the avenue of choice for the hobby, and since I’m paying for a good and agreed to PP’s T&S, I’m going to pay goods

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

When you go to a grocery store the standard is either credit card or cash. Stores will state “3% upcharge if using credit card” as transparency to tell the buyer BEFORE the purchase what to expect.

To my knowledge and my experience on earth, I’ve never seen or heard of anyone walking into their local grocery store and announcing to the manager that they will be trying to pay for their items with pesos, bitcoin, a bar of gold or any other method other than cash or card. That’s because some things go without saying. So generally speaking, 95% of the card industry take PayPal. The ones that don’t raise an immediate scammer flag, it’s it’s assumed PayPal is the avenue of choice for the hobby, and since I’m paying for a good and agreed to PP’s T&S, I’m going to pay goods

Interesting because in Texas stores (Walmart Target HEB) assume people are using credit and price their items based off that. Anyone who pays cash just put extra money in the stores pocket

[TrickyNick]

Originally Posted by Triple B

I think at this point you two need to show the rest of us your breakup texts.

This made me laugh so loud that my wife asked what was happening.

Thank you for your service.

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by Blazed

Interesting because in Texas stores (Walmart Target HEB) assume people are using credit and price their items based off that. Anyone who pays cash just put extra money in the stores pocket

So you are saying the seller accounts for the credit card fee in the initial price of their item?

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by Blazed

It's no different than going to card shows and sellers only accepting cash to avoid taxes but people still do it

It is different because you're trying to use Paypal's platform for free against their rules to save you 2.9%. You can still deal in cash if you choose - just ask the buyer to mail you cash or a check. See how that works out. Paypal offers you a convenience service so you don't have to. And they charge 2.9% for that service.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

When you go to a grocery store the standard is either credit card or cash. Stores will state “3% upcharge if using credit card” as transparency to tell the buyer BEFORE the purchase what to expect.



To my knowledge and my experience on earth, I’ve never seen or heard of anyone walking into their local grocery store and announcing to the manager that they will be trying to pay for their items with pesos, bitcoin, a bar of gold or any other method other than cash or card. That’s because some things go without saying. So generally speaking, 95% of the card industry take PayPal. The ones that don’t raise an immediate scammer flag, it’s it’s assumed PayPal is the avenue of choice for the hobby, and since I’m paying for a good and agreed to PP’s T&S, I’m going to pay goods

So you agree with me then? That's literally what I'm saying. The 3% they charge to use a card is not rolled into the price (some stores do, but more and more don't). If you pay using a card, you pay the 3% fee. How is this different? The store should tell you about the fee. But if you don't see the sign, or they don't tell you until you whip out your card, it's no big deal. They simply say, "There’s a 3% fee for cards," and you either agree or pay cash. It's not hard, it's not complicated, and there is no reason to whine like a baby about it. Some of you are just spoiled brats who I wouldn't ever want to deal with. If things aren't exactly how you expect, you are incapable of being a decent human and adjusting.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

So you are saying the seller accounts for the credit card fee in the initial price of their item?

Some do, some don't. It's the responsibility of the parties to find out the terms and come to agreement. Not complicated.

But two dudes buying/selling cards on facebook is not a store. When you start assuming everyone is on the same page is when things go wrong. A wise buyer never assumes. Get the terms out there right away. Thinking every transaction should or will be on the same terms you are used to is stupid.

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Some do, some don't. It's the responsibility of the parties to find out the terms and come to agreement. Not complicated.

But two dudes buying/selling cards on facebook is not a store. When you start assuming everyone is on the same page is when things go wrong. A wise buyer never assumes. Get the terms out there right away. Thinking every transaction should or will be on the same terms you are used to is stupid.

It’s not complicated. Not at all. I asked for prices on cards daily. At no point in time have I ever felt the need to say… not has anyone ever said to me the following:

“Hello,

I am inquiring about the price of your card. Before I get a price, I would like you to ensure you include all of your fees into the asking price. This fees include but are not limited to: PayPal fees, sales tax, income tax, bubble wrap, bubble mailer, driving to the post office, gas, and potentially the coffee you get in the way. If you would please ensure your price is including all of those items before we negotiate.”

I’ll say what I’ve said multiple times now, transactions were never an issue until the COVID flippers came in with shady business practices and no transparency.

I know you are truly adamant that the way you do things are the right way. But you said you’ve done dozens of deals and you don’t sell, so speaking in absolutely on one side of the table is interesting. I’d be very interested to see what the communication looks like when you message someone inquiring about a card.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

It’s not complicated. Not at all. I asked for prices on cards daily. At no point in time have I ever felt the need to say… not has anyone ever said to me the following:



“Hello,



I am inquiring about the price of your card. Before I get a price, I would like you to ensure you include all of your fees into the asking price. This fees include but are not limited to: PayPal fees, sales tax, income tax, bubble wrap, bubble mailer, driving to the post office, gas, and potentially the coffee you get in the way. If you would please ensure your price is including all of those items before we negotiate.”



I’ll say what I’ve said multiple times now, transactions were never an issue until the COVID flippers came in with shady business practices and no transparency.



I know you are truly adamant that the way you do things are the right way. But you said you’ve done dozens of deals and you don’t sell, so speaking in absolutely on one side of the table is interesting. I’d be very interested to see what the communication looks like when you message someone inquiring about a card.

One thing is for sure, when I inquire about a card it is a pleasant conversation and both sides feel like it was an open and fair deal.

Unlike you, whose message is "claim!", and gets to the end of the transaction hoping this seller does things the way he's used to when the hobby, the world, and the internet was vastly different.

Things have changed. Get with the times or continue to have to make threads on message boards about the good old days.

I guess I'm just easier to deal with than you. I recognize not everyone does things the same way, or the way I'm used to, or has the experience that I do (ironically is more experience than you, but you keep suggesting it's not). I don't get upset by those things and I'm open to talking through it with a seller, rather than rant at the clouds. But you do you.

Ironically, I see you ignored the other post where you gave the perfect example to support my way of doing things.

[Blazed]

8 pages of stupidity

Of all the deals I've done on IG/eBay/card shows I've never once had anyone say can you cover fees or net to me

It's "I can do XXX dlvd" or "I will say "can you do XXX dlvd"

It must just be window lickers and knuckle draggers on FB that say that

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

So you are saying the seller accounts for the credit card fee in the initial price of their item?

Yes

Like i just said, when I do deals its "xxx dlvd"

I don't need a break down because I don't care

If I like the price I pay

No reason to make things complicated

[packman80]

So glad I moved out of cards before Covid started. Everything has become so high priced and it's not even about collecting and enjoying the hobby anymore. It's all about the flip and what Breaker gets the big hits. Also Social Influencers have helped ruin collecting also as the clowns now have people more stupid then even them following them to watch them look like idiots trying to buy and sell cards.

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

One thing is for sure, when I inquire about a card it is a pleasant conversation and both sides feel like it was an open and fair deal.

Unlike you, whose message is "claim!", and gets to the end of the transaction hoping this seller does things the way he's used to when the hobby, the world, and the internet was vastly different.

Things have changed. Get with the times or continue to have to make threads on message boards about the good old days.

I guess I'm just easier to deal with than you. I recognize not everyone does things the same way, or the way I'm used to, or has the experience that I do (ironically is more experience than you, but you keep suggesting it's not). I don't get upset by those things and I'm open to talking through it with a seller, rather than rant at the clouds. But you do you.

Ironically, I see you ignored the other post where you gave the perfect example to support my way of doing things.

Is there at all any chance that in your “dozens” of purchases and 0 sales, that maybe, just maybe, when you joined Facebook after COVID, you were taught the wrong way or joined a group the did things the wrong way?

To say you have more experience than me but don’t sell cards and only have “dozens” of purchases on Facebook is a bit off. You mentioned, “Rather than rants at the clouds”, yet you keep arguing with everyone on here and no one has agreed with you. If you can’t look in the mirror and say, hmm, maybe my small sample size absolutely could possibly be inaccurate, than that is on you.

The next time a buyer messages me and says, “Hello, I’d like to claim your card, but before I do, I would like to be transparent and tell you I intend on paying with paypal goods and services and I will cover your fees”, I’ll make sure to come back in here and tell you. But I’ll put up any amount of money you want that less than 2 of my next 40 sales won’t even discuss a payment method outside me me posting my paypal address and the buyer sending me goods at that price.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Blazed

8 pages of stupidity

Of all the deals I've done on IG/eBay/card shows I've never once had anyone say can you cover fees or net to me

It's "I can do XXX dlvd" or "I will say "can you do XXX dlvd"

It must just be window lickers and knuckle draggers on FB that say that

Yep, if OP had said that, he wouldn't be here whining about getting to the end of the deal just assuming the price was the total price delivered. Like I said, communicating the terms is key for both buyer and seller. Saying, "Can you do $xxx delivered?" Communicates that all collateral fees and costs are included. That's what I've been saying. OP complicates an easy transaction by just assuming every sale is the same, without actually communicating with the other side.

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by Blazed

Yes

Like i just said, when I do deals its "xxx dlvd"

I don't need a break down because I don't care

If I like the price I pay

No reason to make things complicated

I completely agree with you. That being said, if that other poster is a lawyer, doesn’t sell, and only has “dozens” of purchases, he may just operate in a more complicated “check every box like a contract” way in card transactions.

It’s really not difficult as you said.
Seller posts price
Buyer claims card
Buyer pays the price via g&s
Seller ships card

Pretty simple. Anything past that just sucks the life and joy out of the hobby and complicates a simple long-standing process

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

Is there at all any chance that in your “dozens” of purchases and 0 sales, that maybe, just maybe, when you joined Facebook after COVID, you were taught the wrong way or joined a group the did things the wrong way?

.

I know reading is hard for you, but I already explained this. I have been buying cards online for over 26 years. I sold a lot back in the early days, but haven't sold much lately as I buy to collect. But I've bought more cards for my collection than you have, and have been doing it a lot longer. I've done uncountable thousands of deals. The fact that you keep going back to this tells me you understand I'm right about the proper way for a buyer and seller to communicate, and you have nothing but attacking your false claims of my experience.

Your repeated strawmen examples are comical. None of them are remotely close to anything I've said, but it sure makes you feel like you've actually made a point. So keep it up, buddy. Your self esteem needs it.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

I completely agree with you. That being said, if that other poster is a lawyer, doesn’t sell, and only has “dozens” of purchases, he may just operate in a more complicated “check every box like a contract” way in card transactions.



It’s really not difficult as you said.

Seller posts price

Buyer claims card

Buyer pays the price via g&s

Seller ships card



Pretty simple. Anything past that just sucks the life and joy out of the hobby and complicates a simple long-standing process

Reading is hard. Everything he said I have completely agreed with. The fact that you think otherwise says you don't even understand the discussion.

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I know reading is hard for you, but I already explained this. I have been buying cards online for over 26 years. I sold a lot back in the early days, but haven't sold much lately as I buy to collect. But I've bought more cards for my collection than you have, and have been doing it a lot longer. I've done uncountable thousands of deals. The fact that you keep going back to this tells me you understand I'm right about thebproper way for a buyer and seller to communicate, and you have nothing but attacking your false claims of my experience.

Your repeated strawmen examples are comical. None of them are remotely close to anything I've daid, but it sure makes you feel like you've actually made a point. So keep it up, buddy. Your self esteem needs it.

I asked you how many transactions you’ve done on FB and you gave a vague “dozens”. You are now doing a measuring contest of “I’ve bought more cards than you”. You said you’ve done dozens of deals when I asked you how many for a reference point. I didn’t say that, you did.

Is it reasonable to say, as a buyer, you also discuss the shipping method with the seller as well and pay for the shipping as part of the deal? Because you certainly can’t “assume” whether the seller will ship overnight, priority, first class or PWE. And that’s an additional cost that should not be eaten by the seller? Or is there an invisible arbitrary line drawn as to what should and should not be communicated and paid for by the buyer?

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Reading is hard. Everything he said I have completely agreed with. The fact that you think otherwise says you don't even understand the discussion.

You’ve been doing this 26 years (so what, you are 44 years old plus)
You are lawyer (not sure why that needs to be promoted in a screen name?)
“Reading is hard” “you obviously can’t read” “I’ve been doing this long that you” “I’ve bought more than you” “I’m easier to deal with than you”

All very strange comments to make as an adult when just discussing cards and transactions.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

You are now doing a measuring contest of “I’ve bought more cards than you”.

Oh, that's funny. You have repeatedly tried to claim you have more experience than me as a basis for your arguments and brought up the vague term "dozens" as some sort of evidence that the number is small. You are so lacking in self-awareness that you think I'm the one doing a measuring contest. You've spent 2 days doing it. LOL

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

You’ve been doing this 26 years (so what, you are 44 years old plus)

You are lawyer (not sure why that needs to be promoted in a screen name?)

“Reading is hard” “you obviously can’t read” “I’ve been doing this long that you” “I’ve bought more than you” “I’m easier to deal with than you”



All very strange comments to make as an adult when just discussing cards and transactions.

Almost as strange as making a thread to complain about everything you don't like about some sellers.

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Oh, that's funny. You have repeatedly tried to claim you have more experience than me as a basis for your arguments and brought up the vague term "dozens" as some sort of evidence that the number is small. You are so lacking in self-awareness that you think I'm the one doing a measuring contest. You've spent 2 days doing it. LOL

I asked you how many FB deals you’ve done and when you joined the groups. Your response was dozens. I’ve done a dozen deals (buying and selling) in August. So yes, I’d say 1,000 transactions and 12 years on FB, gives me a little more experience than “dozens” of purchases only. That’s not a knock, that’s just kind of a fact, no?

[ksemmel]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Almost as strange as making a thread to complain about everything you don't like about some sellers.

Maybe so, but 8 pages of comments in 24 hours, and people with vastly different opinions tells me it may not be all that strange after all…

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by ksemmel

I asked you how many FB deals you’ve done and when you joined the groups. Your response was dozens. I’ve done a dozen deals (buying and selling) in August. So yes, I’d say 1,000 transactions and 12 years on FB, gives me a little more experience than “dozens” of purchases only. That’s not a knock, that’s just kind of a fact, no?

You haven't done dozens of deals?

Again, I'll say it slowly, I've been dealing online since 1999 and on facebook since facebook became a thing. Literally thousands of deals. So can you stop with this worthless attempt to keep bringing up a vague answer I gave and you ran with? How about you get back to the actual discussion where you post examples that support my position and agree with those I agree with. Oh wait, you don't want to get back to that. You'd rather resort to distractions.