📈Is the correction over? What cards look attractive with an upside potential?📈

[Nomad]

That is some truth above.

[ninjabum87]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

how can we raise these people's IQ

(also, Tim Duncan's unspectacular hobby status is an IQ problem)

If the hobby has an IQ ceiling you need to play within those bounds or be disappointed. Doesn't matter what "should" be the case. Unless humans were all replaced by vulcans you're fighting a losing battle.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

We don’t have to take away from Duncans greatness to elevate Jokic

which player would I draft first, that is the only question

swap 'em out in a thought experiment. Just do it for the fun. How many rings in each case? Is Jamal Murray at Manu Ginobili level

Originally Posted by drobfan8

It's hilarious watching the desperation of those trying to prop up Jokic so badly.

Tim Duncan wasn't a system player. He was the system. He also drastically changed his game from when he first came in to the league to when scoring started to go up.

That's like saying Jokic is a system player because Mike Malone put him in that role to do what he's doing currently and have the offense go through him.

Jokic can keep gaining MVPs, but titles are where it's at. That choke job vs Minny was a stain. Will need to see if he can get that one back some day by winning a 2nd title.

There was no choke job by Joker there as I have explained, his Game Score for that series was ~26. It's obvious why he ended up heaving desperation 3s in Game 7.

No need to take away from Jokic's greatness to elevate Duncan. It's intellectually dishonest to say he has any kind of choking gene because his clutch numbers defy that. But I haven't found honesty and accountability to be your strongest suits, as evidenced by your hiding behind a block when you make your points against my points. Respect's a two-way street, bub, and you ain't gettin' it from me.

You have a dishonest pro-Duncan/Spurs bias anyway which would only serve to discredit your case. Leave it to people willing to debate their ideas rather than hide and pretend they're not the problem. Almost as bad as Khal, but that's a damn low bar

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by ninjabum87

If the hobby has an IQ ceiling you need to play within those bounds or be disappointed. Doesn't matter what "should" be the case. Unless humans were all replaced by vulcans you're fighting a losing battle.

Jokic collectors have to deal with the lower prices

I'ma ask ChatGPT about raising IQs

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

It takes a confluence of things to become a hobby legend, some of which is out of the player's control.

Look at MJ. He was an incredibly dynamic player who excited crowds. He was winsome and very marketable. But he came along right as Stern was taking the NBA global. He also collaborated with Nike/Tinker to design incredible sneakers/brand. Since he's retired, he makes (a lot) more money from the Jordan Brand than he did playing. He also came along at the perfect time in terms of media. We have tons of MJ highlights that display his greatness but MJ retired right before the start of the social media age so he didn't have to deal with that scrutiny.

He also left winning championships in his last full 6 seasons with the Bulls which gave him a sort of invincibility the second half of his career. Even though he says the Bulls could have won 7 in a row, if the Bulls lost in 1999, MJ's mythological stature would become a little more human so he's fortunate the Bulls won their Last Dance in '98 and parted ways.

His career (partly his doing and partly the timing/marketing of the NBA/Nike) transcended the sport.

somebody state a good case for why they'd take MJ over Jokic in a draft, 'cause I'm not seeing it and so now I have to lay down the guantlet. It isn't like we're at Bron 2011 stage where the player still needs to prove he can come through at the moment of truth; Jokic showed he could and he did it without DWade and Bosh.

Y'all just need to ask and answer the right questions, right now the question is which order do you draft these players in a hypothetical thought-experiment draft. I ask because Joker seems to be about as strong a player as they come on the overall package. He's not a world-class defender but he's the greatest offensive player ever, there I said it. And he won one chip so far with that formula and near-scrubs for support. (Sure, yeah, I'll diminish Jamal Murray's greatness to pump up Manu's.) What if it's a bunch of cowardly group-think that prevents people from putting Jokic in the top-tiny-number discussion, let's consider that and assume that if it's true there will be lots of evidence for it. (I bet there is.)

Then just pound those right questions/answers home at every opportunity, let it be known it's the hip and progressive thing to do, and the IQ increases will follow

(we're gonna have to upend that dogma about needing so many Rangz to be a GOAT/top-x contender. Oh, he can get you Rangz)

[RKH916]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

somebody state a good case for why they'd take MJ over Jokic in a draft, 'cause I'm not seeing it and so now I have to lay down the guantlet. It isn't like we're at Bron 2011 stage where the player still needs to prove he can come through at the moment of truth; Jokic showed he could and he did it without DWade and Bosh.

Y'all just need to ask and answer the right questions, right now the question is which order do you draft these players in a hypothetical thought-experiment draft. I ask because Joker seems to be about as strong a player as they come on the overall package. He's not a world-class defender but he's the greatest offensive player ever, there I said it. And he won one chip so far with that formula and near-scrubs for support. (Sure, yeah, I'll diminish Jamal Murray's greatness to pump up Manu's.) What if it's a bunch of cowardly group-think that prevents people from putting Jokic in the top-tiny-number discussion, let's consider that and assume that if it's true there will be lots of evidence for it. (I bet there is.)

Then just pound those right questions/answers home at every opportunity, let it be known it's the hip and progressive thing to do, and the IQ increases will follow

(we're gonna have to upend that dogma about needing so many Rangz to be a GOAT/top-x contender. Oh, he can get you Rangz)

You're out here making determinations of greatness via thought-experiments.

You need to put the keyboard away and ban yourself from interacting with ChatGPT for a month.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by RKH916

You're out here making determinations of greatness via thought-experiments.

You need to put the keyboard away and ban yourself from interacting with ChatGPT for a month.

thought experiments are a tool of thinking with a proper role, and ChatGPT is great if you think of the right prompts, look at this newly generated discussion pertaining to NBA GOAT debates/criteria:
https://chatgpt.com/share/6748273c-8...d-face86e2f10e

looks like Jokic is a mere 13th-ish player and we're stuck with MJ, Mr. Russell, LeBron and Kareem as the "basketball Rushmore" for a while
(why can't I manipulate that chatbot into a top-4 spot for Timmy, I might as well just have the ranking in my signature just mirror the Chatbot ranking)

now, sir (?), you just joined BO forums last month, with all of 120 or so posts, for many people that makes you a suspected Previously Banned Member by default, what water do you draw around here

[RKH916]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

thought experiments are a tool of thinking with a proper role, and ChatGPT is great if you think of the right prompts, look at this newly generated discussion pertaining to NBA GOAT debates/criteria:
https://chatgpt.com/share/6748273c-8...d-face86e2f10e

looks like Jokic is a mere 13th-ish player and we're stuck with MJ, Mr. Russell, LeBron and Kareem as the "basketball Rushmore" for a while
(why can't I manipulate that chatbot into a top-4 spot for Timmy, I might as well just have the ranking in my signature just mirror the Chatbot ranking)

lol. ChatGPT might be ground-breaking and exciting for somebody with minimal to zero background in exercising their rational faculties. But that's really all it is... pre-baked elementary reasoning.

now, sir (?), you just joined BO forums last month, with all of 120 or so posts, for many people that makes you a suspected Previously Banned Member by default, what water do you draw around here

Thought-experiments
ChatGPT
Forum Reputation

I look forward to reading your inaugural book

"Deductive Reasoning, Thought-Experiments, and Large Language Models: A Blowout Veteran's Guide to Gauging Greatness in Sports"

[GOATcards]

PBM, 100% certain

didn't answer the key question, how much water do you draw around here lebowski

(strain is Zsunami)

[GOATcards]

the chatgpt link I just posted does have a number of factual errors here and there but I find the chatbot rather remarkable, perhaps exceeding all humans but Tallboy in rigor/depth, in the fundamental arguments.

is there something wrong with the arguments in the link I provided, or is the Suspected PBM going to troll about ChatGPT being something or other

[Torro]

This hobby is not about collecting the players with best statistics etc. its about collecting who you like. MJ and Kobe were not just great basketball players but global icons, people just loved them all over the world, even the ones who didnt care about basketball knew them. IMO Jokic has very close to 0% getting to a similar status even if he gets 7 or 10 MVPs, people outside of the basketball fans will not care about him. Thats also why the Tim Duncan comparison is quite accurate. People who understand basketball at a deeper level appreciate them, but not the masses, they just arent exciting and lack characteristics to reach that level of popularity.

Being a great basketball player just aint enough!

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

We don’t have to take away from Duncans greatness to elevate Jokic

Where did I take away from his greatness? I also rank him 6th all-time. Higher than most rankings that I see.

[imbluestreak23]

We all knooooow why Jokic will never ascend the NBA mountain.

League and its mouthpieces will never promote someone who “looks” like that. Gotta be hip and down for all dem causes

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

We all knooooow why Jokic will never ascend the NBA mountain.

League and its mouthpieces will never promote someone who “looks” like that. Gotta be hip and down for all dem causes

Yeah, who actually wants to collect cards of someone who looks like Al Bundy?

[GOATcards]

"he needs more chips," i.e., activate Bubblemurray more consistently or jump ship like Bron/KD

(are the Denver FO really giving un-Bubblemurray $50M/y )

he better get Braun's development accelerated

[ninjabum87]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Yeah, who actually wants to collect cards of someone who looks like Al Bundy?

Yeah, he's just not hot enough. 4/10.

[KhalDrogo]

I saw a bunch of 2023 Optic at Academy today. Has retail fallen that far?

[hermanotarjeta]

We’ve been Powelled again.

Basketball cards paralleled and redundanted to death.

The plummet continues.

Will wax finally start to fall as well?

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

We’ve been Powelled again.

Basketball cards paralleled and redundanted to death.

The plummet continues.

Will wax finally start to fall as well?

If 24/25 basketball stays expensive then there is no hope.

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by anusinha

If 24/25 basketball stays expensive then there is no hope.

Can you imagine 25/26? Topps gets the license back and Cooper Flagg is an RC.

[KhalDrogo]

Cooper Flagg

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by anusinha

If 24/25 basketball stays expensive then there is no hope.

24/25 wax will be an excellent thermometer.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Cooper Flagg

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by ninjabum87

Yeah, he's just not hot enough. 4/10.

I thought 3/10 was the cut off. Considering the beer goggles and all.

All basketball market needs to thrive is quarterbacks.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Nomad

I thought 3/10 was the cut off. Considering the beer goggles and all.

All basketball market needs to thrive is quarterbacks.

It’s sad that the WNBA is eclipsing the NBA in the hobby.

As with quarterbacks, it must be the hair.

Perhaps the NBA needs to hire some professional hair stylists for its players.