2015 Prospect Rush Draft Hit Parade

[Reverend Ghost]

Don't forget shipping supplies and eBay fees, darlins'

[HadWayTooMuch]

Originally Posted by Reverend Ghost

Lol, conservative? 6/per relic and 6/per auto?? Even on release day, that's not realistic.

I hear ya, but you are missing the point of it. I'm saying 18 auto/relic will average getting back $108. You will likely hit something in the $10-$20 range as the manufactured relics (1 per box) usually sell between $5 and $20 and are somewhat liquid. You should get at least one decent auto to make up for a couple of $3 scrubs. Getting back $108 from the 18 relics is not unrealistic, but yes, getting $6 minimum for each is.

Not guaranteed of course, but likely. I'm tempted to rip a jumbo case just to prove it!

[DetectiveChrome]

Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch

Seriously? You don't think you can get $275 back at a bare minimum for a 2015 Topps Baseball Jumbo Case? Series 2 is a no brainer with Bryant.

How about $20 per set and getting 5 sets? That's $100 right there.

You have 6 autos and 12 relics. Let's be conservative and say $6 each. That's over $100 right there.

Then you have all the gold, black, camo parallels. You have the inserts and extra cards. Not conservatively $75 for all of that?

And that's assuming you get NOTHING in the case. No moderately sized hits.

I think you are very wrong.

No mention of ROTI (return on time invested)?

Sounds like a lot of time wasted in addition to the crappy ROI

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

What does it have to do with it? How about that the same people over and over come in and bash it like it is in a league of its own. If you are going to trash how bad the ROI is on this stuff you can't act like its worse than Topps and Panini because its not. It has everything to do with it because it is no different and those trashing it are acting like it is different.

You can absolutely complain about the lack of gas miles in a ford compared to your hyundai because there is a difference in gas milage.

Dave if I may ... why are you on here talking about the people bashing this product? I don't remember seeing you defend Panini and Topps when they put up any new release and the majority suggest it's gonna suck (whether that opinion is correct or not).

Why spend time tying to thwart the negative opinion? Are you partnered with Will in some way on this release?

[dthimesch]

Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch

Seriously? You don't think you can get $275 back at a bare minimum for a 2015 Topps Baseball Jumbo Case? Series 2 is a no brainer with Bryant.

How about $20 per set and getting 5 sets? That's $100 right there.

You have 6 autos and 12 relics. Let's be conservative and say $6 each. That's over $100 right there.

Then you have all the gold, black, camo parallels. You have the inserts and extra cards. Not conservatively $75 for all of that?

And that's assuming you get NOTHING in the case. No moderately sized hits.

I think you are very wrong.

Although I disagree with some of your minor pricing, I agree you can typically on average get to your 50% average based on your numbers. I was saying no way to the closer to 100% average ROI. Which I shouldn't have said because you saying on average 50%-100% was too wide of precent.

you are absolutely correct you will get on an average case of topps jumbo between 1%-100% ROI

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by tonedef2oo8

What does topps and panini have to do with this product? Can I go outside jump in my hyundai and then complain about the lack of gas miles in a ford? Not sure why some others bad habits is a point for some people here. I hear that panini also bought some fake cut autographs while cutting corners shall everyone now do the same? I mean after all they do it!

Topps and Panini are being compared because they all sell baseball cards. PR is a baseball card product.

Just curious...what is being compared against when people say that PR has a low ROI? Mutual funds? penny stocks? lotto tickets?

[Reverend Ghost]

Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch

I hear ya, but you are missing the point of it. I'm saying 18 auto/relic will average getting back $108. You will likely hit something in the $10-$20 range as the manufactured relics (1 per box) usually sell between $5 and $20 and are somewhat liquid. You should get at least one decent auto to make up for a couple of $3 scrubs. Getting back $108 from the 18 relics is not unrealistic, but yes, getting $6 minimum for each is.



Not guaranteed of course, but likely. I'm tempted to rip a jumbo case just to prove it!

Oh please do that, lol. Time is a huge factor. Rush has a different release clock on it as its full of prospects. Base Topps better be listed the afternoon it releases or a lot of those numbers up there just don't exist man.

[HadWayTooMuch]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Although I disagree with some of your minor pricing, I agree you can typically on average get to your 50% average based on your numbers. I was saying no way to the closer to 100% average ROI. Which I shouldn't have said because you saying on average 50%-100% was too wide of precent.

you are absolutely correct you will get on an average case of topps jumbo between 1%-100% ROI

My point was, you should get at least 50% back on your investment. With PR, you will likely not get 50% back and spend a helluva lot less money, not to mention less thrill opening packs.

And you are wrong, you could get 1% - 5000% ROI. Who knows?

And we're not talking about time because if you are breaking 2015 Topps Jumbo strictly for ROI and no enjoyment, you really should go out and get a job instead! We're strictly talking dollars and sense (cents)!

[Rufusyo]

There is no way money can be made on cases of jumbo and such.

[HadWayTooMuch]

Originally Posted by Rufusyo

There is no way money can be made on cases of jumbo and such.

My point is, you are more likely to recoup a higher percentage of your investment and spend less money on Topps jumbo compared to PR.

That is all I'm saying!

[dthimesch]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Dave if I may ... why are you on here talking about the people bashing this product?

Because the select few has done a pretty good job of swaying the majority with the lack of fair comparisons.

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I don't remember seeing you defend Panini and Topps when they put up any new release and the majority suggest it's gonna suck (whether that opinion is correct or not).

But did you see me bash it either? Nope....

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Why spend time tying to thwart the negative opinion?

I said I was going to bash my head into a wall by the end of the day so I guess you can say I was finally venting.

You are right I need to be done.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Because the select few has done a pretty good job of swaying the majority with unfair comparisons.



But did you see me bash it either? Nope....



I said I was going to bash my head into a wall by the end of the day so I guess you can say I was finally venting.

You are right I need to be done.

Well there's my point. If you've never taken a side pro or con Topps releases, and you say that the ROI on Prospect Rush is similar to that, then why take a stance now?

As a group breaker of this product, you're coming off awfully "buy this so I can break it". You've posted a few times in this thread about new breaks that you've opened; it feels somewhat uncouth.

[edhou1]

[QUOTE=dthimesch;9344456][QUOTE=edhou1;9344435]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

no way.



exactly, you just added a ton of variables to make the product have a sustainable ROI. That is not what we are talking about in this case.

Fair enough.

My personal view is that people were expecting this to be a much better ROI than Leaf/SuperBreak/Heroes of Sport but it is likely the same at best. Thus the 'disappointment' being manifested as anger...

[DetectiveChrome]

[QUOTE=edhou1;9344554][QUOTE=dthimesch;9344456]

Originally Posted by edhou1

Fair enough.

My personal view is that people were expecting this to be a much better ROI than Leaf/SuperBreak/Heroes of Sport but it is likely the same at best. Thus the 'disappointment' being manifested as anger...

Yup, some Nancy's feelings were hurt. Maybe becayse they don't understand the basic principles about business/economics, the hobby, advertisement etc. They feel some sort of entitlement for buying product in this hobby.

Cheer up and go buy a Panini product!

[Metsfan1121]

[QUOTE=edhou1;9344435][QUOTE=dthimesch;9344373]no way.

Hmmm...I bet BrentnBecca gets close to that if not that. But it requires breaking lots of cases, having loyal customers, and having the economies of scale to make listing/selling all the small inserts/subsets worthwhile.

BrentnBecca doesn't buy one case of anything. Scale is a major factor with low end sets, so you need to spend several thousand to maximize your ROI. With PR, nearly all cards are sold individually, so scale can be as small as you like. The problem with comparing ROI on different types of products is there is different methods of buying and selling each product.

Consider this, most people calculate ROI as the sum of the individual cards pulled divided by the total box price. People fail to recognize a multitude of variables, and in my personal opinion, the additional factors of ROI all favor Prospect Rush compared to sets like Topps. First off, with Prospect Rush, your cards will be much more likely to maintain their value, as bowman is seen as the most desirable brand and the supply only lowers over time. Additionally, the cards pulled have very good chances at increasing in value. Topps cards, on the other hand, are only in demand at release and the few months after. Try selling some 2007 Topps inserts, good luck.

Secondly, with PR, the cards are mainly high dollar, and because of that, you have more markets open to you. You can go the eBay route, sell on here, or on COMC. With Topps, 99% of the cards aren't worth the price of a PWE, so you are forced to either sell on COMC to minimize shipping expenses, sell as a lots and lose potential value, or purchase additional product to complete sets, and you are forced into a competitive market where a hundred other people have the identical set for scale.

Another factor is the many alternative buying methods. In a Topps jumbo case group break, there's a decent chance that 90% of the people will lose money. In Prospect Rush, I'd guess it's closer to 80%. Your chances at getting 500% return in a Group Break? Almost certainly higher in prospect rush. Again, these are just guesses.

Lastly is the alternative ways to sell PR. A sealed case of Topps will lower in value every year, undoubtedly. An unopened box of PR could see increase if 14 draft ends up having many successful prospects. You could also sell the Bryant unscratched down the line for quite a bit, or scratch it yourself. You have more ways to sell, you can sell the hot prospects and hold the cold ones. It's fairly easy to price gauge low numbered bowman cards simply due to the "supercollector" and the incredible demand for bowman.

In the end, the formula of current individual value/cost does PR a tremendous disservice. If you're really interested in the economics of opening boxes, you need to use more formulas than that to give a product a fair evaluation.

[dthimesch]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Well there's my point. If you've never taken a side pro or con Topps releases, and you say that the ROI on Prospect Rush is similar to that, then why take a stance now?

As a group breaker of this product, you're coming off awfully "buy this so I can break it". You've posted a few times in this thread about new breaks that you've opened; it feels somewhat uncouth.

And if there were manufacturer threads about Finest and Archives I may have posted my breaks there as well.

I haven't sat and defended this product either. I understand it comes across that way because of the people I'm responding to, I'm just trying to get those people to make fair comparisons which I understand now is unreasonable.

[Rufusyo]

Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch

My point is, you are more likely to recoup a higher percentage of your investment and spend less money on Topps jumbo compared to PR.

That is all I'm saying!

I know, I am being sarcastic. I have had a blast doing my jumbo case breaks every year. To each their own. No doubt, I spend a lot of time sorting and listing but I enjoy it. I always come out ok. Yes, I have lost money. But I have always recouped 80% on my base topps Jumbos, and I have come out well ahead on things like Chrome football until this years blood bath. Easily lost 40%, time will tell but might be closer to 25% when all is said and done.

I am in a few of these PR breaks. I wouldn't risk opening a case of it in the same way I wouldn't risk opening a case of NT, Five Star, Immaculate, the list goes on... Some people would, and that is great for them. I would assume the return on investment for those would be the same as this. I am not sure though, as it is not something I have done.

I think there is a reason guys like brenandbecca don't break high end in quantity.

[jbrandonw]

I think people just set their expectations too high for this product. It's still the most transparent repack product available. When you buy it your looking for the Bryant. On most cases if you don't hit it your gonna lose. I'm no big fan of it, but I bought a couple spots for the chance at the Bryant. If this kind of thing isn't your cup of tea then just don't buy in. No need to bash the people that do.

[Reverend Ghost]

[QUOTE=Metsfan1121;9344572][QUOTE=edhou1;9344435]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

no way.







BrentnBecca doesn't buy one case of anything. Scale is a major factor with low end sets, so you need to spend several thousand to maximize your ROI. With PR, nearly all cards are sold individually, so scale can be as small as you like. The problem with comparing ROI on different types of products is there is different methods of buying and selling each product.



Consider this, most people calculate ROI as the sum of the individual cards pulled divided by the total box price. People fail to recognize a multitude of variables, and in my personal opinion, the additional factors of ROI all favor Prospect Rush compared to sets like Topps. First off, with Prospect Rush, your cards will be much more likely to maintain their value, as bowman is seen as the most desirable brand and the supply only lowers over time. Additionally, the cards pulled have very good chances at increasing in value. Topps cards, on the other hand, are only in demand at release and the few months after. Try selling some 2007 Topps inserts, good luck.



Secondly, with PR, the cards are mainly high dollar, and because of that, you have more markets open to you. You can go the eBay route, sell on here, or on COMC. With Topps, 99% of the cards aren't worth the price of a PWE, so you are forced to either sell on COMC to minimize shipping expenses, sell as a lots and lose potential value, or purchase additional product to complete sets, and you are forced into a competitive market where a hundred other people have the identical set for scale.



Another factor is the many alternative buying methods. In a Topps jumbo case group break, there's a decent chance that 90% of the people will lose money. In Prospect Rush, I'd guess it's closer to 80%. Your chances at getting 500% return in a Group Break? Almost certainly higher in prospect rush. Again, these are just guesses.



Lastly is the alternative ways to sell PR. A sealed case of Topps will lower in value every year, undoubtedly. An unopened box of PR could see increase if 14 draft ends up having many successful prospects. You could also sell the Bryant unscratched down the line for quite a bit, or scratch it yourself. You have more ways to sell, you can sell the hot prospects and hold the cold ones. It's fairly easy to price gauge low numbered bowman cards simply due to the "supercollector" and the incredible demand for bowman.



In the end, the formula of current individual value/cost does PR a tremendous disservice. If you're really interested in the economics of opening boxes, you need to use more formulas than that to give a product a fair evaluation.

Agree 100% with all of this.

[Prospect Rush]

UPDATE:

Cases hand delivered from Buffalo, NY to Sterling, VA by Prospect Rush 30 minutes ago. Blowout currently processing all pending orders.

[jbrandonw]

Originally Posted by Prospect Rush

UPDATE:

Cases hand delivered from Buffalo, NY to Sterling, VA by Prospect Rush 30 minutes ago. Blowout currently processing all pending orders.

Now that's some customer service right there. Lol.

[tonedef2oo8]

[QUOTE=DetectiveChrome;9344571][QUOTE=edhou1;9344554]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Yup, some Nancy's feelings were hurt. Maybe becayse they don't understand the basic principles about business/economics, the hobby, advertisement etc. They feel some sort of entitlement for buying product in this hobby.

Cheer up and go buy a Panini product!

Nancy's? That a boy.Is that what adults do who understand economics and business do? they call people names?

And instead of name calling maybe pay attention to spell check telling you the word is because not becayse.

[Artchie]

Originally Posted by Prospect Rush

UPDATE:

Cases hand delivered from Buffalo, NY to Sterling, VA by Prospect Rush 30 minutes ago. Blowout currently processing all pending orders.

nice will nice work

[kinar]

Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch

I thought the product was sold out? I don't understand how there could be re-orders.

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Pretty sure Will never said anything about the product being sold out. He has told us his past products sold out. I could be wrong but don't remember seeing hi ever saying this was sold out.

Originally Posted by wmelchior628

Don't think he ever said they were sold out.

Originally Posted by rednecksims

He is the Canadian distributor/dealer for his product you have to order directly from.

Currently says out of stock on his website...

2015 Prospect Rush Draft- Factory Sealed Box

I'm sure he hasn't had time to update it (since I'm pretty sure he does it all himself) but...just saying that the only indication of inventory he has currently given us says sold out.

[nickha2]

Originally Posted by Cactuspies

I love how there is an LCS owner in here complaining about capitalism. sell everything in your store at cost or less and buy high and then sell at lower market value. you shouldn't be posting in here at all. just my opinion. I bet you mark up your boxes and cards and even food and drinks if you sell them in the store. how do you plan on keeping the door open if you don't have some sort of profit margin? maybe you ought to be selling those panini boxes which we all say should be $50 instead of $100. Maybe those topps boxes you should sell for what they will be going for a month or 2 after release. for once I'm taking SUIC side and SMH!!!!!!!