**The Perennial MIKE TROUT Thread**

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

The Angels announced that Mike Trout left his first rehab game after 2 innings with left knee soreness



Can't complete 2 innings now?

It's just sad at this point. He needs to just realize its time to DH.

[49ersSF]

Originally Posted by kyle1707

Mike trout was mantle mays Aaron etc

So many of these hall of famers that just played a long time to rack up huge stats never were that

I could care less where he ends statiscally

For a decade he was one of the greatest players who ever played the game

I will take that over stats any day

While I do agree that there is a bit too much accolade for those careers that drag on I disagree completely with putting Trout in the same category as Mantle, Mays, and Aaron.

Trout had a nice run from 2011 through 2019 but people tend to put him along the legends of the game because of an invented stat "WAR". The fact is that Trout has been a below-average at best Centerfielder which still hyper-inflates his WAR. Additionally, he draws a lot of walks simply because he is on a team that did not have another huge weapon. Once Shohei arrived you see Trout's walks go down. Walks is reason #2 why he has a huge WAR advantage. He won all 3 MVP's based on his WAR and the value placed on it during that specific time.

Beyond that, he has done nothing. He has no major accomplishments beyond the MVP's and generally is not much of a gamer. He's the guy that takes the check rather than want to win. He lacks what guys like Bryce Harper have and the rest of his team suffers because of it. The Angels were in 1st place 5 of the previous 6 seasons prior to 2011 so the team did win.

I'll agree that he was one of the greatest players of the 2010 decade for sure. Dale Murphy was one of the greatest players of the 1980's as well. Just saying.

Back to Trout being an all-time legend. Here are some players and their stats by age 32.

Mike Trout

.299 BA 1648 H 378 HR 954 RBI 212 SB 980 BB 743 Xtra Base Hits

Albert Belle

.296 BA 1569 H 358 HR 1136 RBI 88 SB 631 BB 730 XBH

Jim Rice

.302 BA 1963 H 331 HR 1179 RBI 55 SB 502 BB 695 XBH

Dale Murphy

.274 BA 1689 H 334 HR 1004 RBI 148 SB 806 BB 647 XBH

Juan Gonzalez

.296 BA 1805 H 405 HR 1317 RBI 25 SB 434 BB 795 XBH

and here is where we start to see the separation.

Vladimir Guerrero

.325 BA 1972 H 365 HR 1177 RBI 168 SB 615 BB 778 XBH

Mickey Mantle

.309 BA 2016 H 454 HR 1298 RBI 141 SB 1390 BB 812 XBH

Willie Mays (lost 2 years due to military service)

.314 BA 2043 H 406 HR 1185 RBI 249 SB 795 BB 848 XBH

Hank Aaron

.317 BA 2434 H 442 HR 1432 RBI 170 SB 739 BB 937 XBH

Miguel Cabrera

.321 BA 2331 H 408 HR 1445 RBI 38 SB 936 BB 916 XBH

Albert Pujols

.325 BA 2246 H 475 HR 1434 RBI 92 SB 1027 BB 995 XBH

[finfangfan]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

The Angels announced that Mike Trout left his first rehab game after 2 innings with left knee soreness

Sad.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-knee-soreness

Angels manager Ron Washington previously told reporters the plan was for Trout to play five innings on Tuesday, serve as the designated hitter on Wednesday and play another seven innings on Thursday, after which he might be activated off the injured list.

His timetable is currently uncertain.

Trout, 32, is a generational talent who finished within the top two in American League MVP voting seven times from 2012 to 2019. But he has been ravaged by injury in recent years, playing in less than 50% of the Angels' games from 2021 to 2023 because of ailments to his right calf, upper back and left hand.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

While I do agree that there is a bit too much accolade for those careers that drag on I disagree completely with putting Trout in the same category as Mantle, Mays, and Aaron.

Trout had a nice run from 2011 through 2019 but people tend to put him along the legends of the game because of an invented stat "WAR". The fact is that Trout has been a below-average at best Centerfielder which still hyper-inflates his WAR. Additionally, he draws a lot of walks simply because he is on a team that did not have another huge weapon. Once Shohei arrived you see Trout's walks go down. Walks is reason #2 why he has a huge WAR advantage. He won all 3 MVP's based on his WAR and the value placed on it during that specific time.

Beyond that, he has done nothing. He has no major accomplishments beyond the MVP's and generally is not much of a gamer. He's the guy that takes the check rather than want to win. He lacks what guys like Bryce Harper have and the rest of his team suffers because of it. The Angels were in 1st place 5 of the previous 6 seasons prior to 2011 so the team did win.

I'll agree that he was one of the greatest players of the 2010 decade for sure. Dale Murphy was one of the greatest players of the 1980's as well. Just saying.

Back to Trout being an all-time legend. Here are some players and their stats by age 32.

Mike Trout

.299 BA 1648 H 378 HR 954 RBI 212 SB 980 BB 743 Xtra Base Hits

Albert Belle

.296 BA 1569 H 358 HR 1136 RBI 88 SB 631 BB 730 XBH

Jim Rice

.302 BA 1963 H 331 HR 1179 RBI 55 SB 502 BB 695 XBH

Dale Murphy

.274 BA 1689 H 334 HR 1004 RBI 148 SB 806 BB 647 XBH

Juan Gonzalez

.296 BA 1805 H 405 HR 1317 RBI 25 SB 434 BB 795 XBH

and here is where we start to see the separation.

Vladimir Guerrero

.325 BA 1972 H 365 HR 1177 RBI 168 SB 615 BB 778 XBH

Mickey Mantle

.309 BA 2016 H 454 HR 1298 RBI 141 SB 1390 BB 812 XBH

Willie Mays (lost 2 years due to military service)

.314 BA 2043 H 406 HR 1185 RBI 249 SB 795 BB 848 XBH

Hank Aaron

.317 BA 2434 H 442 HR 1432 RBI 170 SB 739 BB 937 XBH

Miguel Cabrera

.321 BA 2331 H 408 HR 1445 RBI 38 SB 936 BB 916 XBH

Albert Pujols

.325 BA 2246 H 475 HR 1434 RBI 92 SB 1027 BB 995 XBH

I see what you are saying here and I personally would go so far as to say that Mike Trout is the most overrated player in the past 15-20 or however many years (at least for me)

HOWEVER....... that statement would only be in reference to him being a top 3-10 all time player; which is where it seemed everyone wanted to project him during his insane peak.

As is stands, he is probably done accumulating anything of actual value so I just try to look at it as a whole right now........ His career stats are lit up with black ink... runs scored, on base percentage, OPS, walks.... and even led the league once in steals and RBI. Trout was a complete player on the highest order and was brilliant at making pitchers pay while seeing very few quality pitches to hit.

Trout won 9 Silver Slugger awards and was top 5 in MVP voting 9 straight years..... where 7 of those were first or second.

In my opinion he's most certainly a first ballot HOF and easily a top 40-50 all time player............. but that's a far cry from being top 10......... which is where the huge disconnect is with Trout. The animosity toward him is due to the radical views and value of his peak..... but the honest truth is in the middle. He's not as great as the Trout lovers think due to the heavily limited ability to stay on the field.......... and he's much better than the Trout haters think because of what he did accomplish in a remarkable 10-11 year window.

You don't end up 4th all time in MVP shares sandwiched between musial/pujols above and ted williams/gehrig below if you aren't one of the best players to ever suit up. Instead of everyone trying to tear Trout down it would be nice to see people appreciate what he did and stop trying to compare his counting stats to inferior guys who played for 16-20 plus years. It's just an uneducated argument (not in reference to you in particular, but I see that endlessly and it just makes no sense)

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

The Angels announced that Mike Trout left his first rehab game after 2 innings with left knee soreness



Can't complete 2 innings now?

Originally Posted by anusinha

And he struck out looking in his only at bat

You love to see it

(that's what some on the baseball forums will say)

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

While I do agree that there is a bit too much accolade for those careers that drag on I disagree completely with putting Trout in the same category as Mantle, Mays, and Aaron.

Trout had a nice run from 2011 through 2019 but people tend to put him along the legends of the game because of an invented stat "WAR". The fact is that Trout has been a below-average at best Centerfielder which still hyper-inflates his WAR. Additionally, he draws a lot of walks simply because he is on a team that did not have another huge weapon. Once Shohei arrived you see Trout's walks go down. Walks is reason #2 why he has a huge WAR advantage. He won all 3 MVP's based on his WAR and the value placed on it during that specific time.

Beyond that, he has done nothing. He has no major accomplishments beyond the MVP's and generally is not much of a gamer. He's the guy that takes the check rather than want to win. He lacks what guys like Bryce Harper have and the rest of his team suffers because of it. The Angels were in 1st place 5 of the previous 6 seasons prior to 2011 so the team did win.

I'll agree that he was one of the greatest players of the 2010 decade for sure. Dale Murphy was one of the greatest players of the 1980's as well. Just saying.

Back to Trout being an all-time legend. Here are some players and their stats by age 32.

When he plays only Pujols was better through age 32 season when you take the 162 game average. How crazy are the numbers Pujols put up?!?!

[soey10]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

I see what you are saying here and I personally would go so far as to say that Mike Trout is the most overrated player in the past 15-20 or however many years (at least for me)

HOWEVER....... that statement would only be in reference to him being a top 3-10 all time player; which is where it seemed everyone wanted to project him during his insane peak.

As is stands, he is probably done accumulating anything of actual value so I just try to look at it as a whole right now........ His career stats are lit up with black ink... runs scored, on base percentage, OPS, walks.... and even led the league once in steals and RBI. Trout was a complete player on the highest order and was brilliant at making pitchers pay while seeing very few quality pitches to hit.

Trout won 9 Silver Slugger awards and was top 5 in MVP voting 9 straight years..... where 7 of those were first or second.

In my opinion he's most certainly a first ballot HOF and easily a top 40-50 all time player............. but that's a far cry from being top 10......... which is where the huge disconnect is with Trout. The animosity toward him is due to the radical views and value of his peak..... but the honest truth is in the middle. He's not as great as the Trout lovers think due to the heavily limited ability to stay on the field.......... and he's much better than the Trout haters think because of what he did accomplish in a remarkable 10-11 year window.

You don't end up 4th all time in MVP shares sandwiched between musial/pujols above and ted williams/gehrig below if you aren't one of the best players to ever suit up. Instead of everyone trying to tear Trout down it would be nice to see people appreciate what he did and stop trying to compare his counting stats to inferior guys who played for 16-20 plus years. It's just an uneducated argument (not in reference to you in particular, but I see that endlessly and it just makes no sense)

Agree 100%. Spot on take


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[seanrs1]

Bought a few Mike Trout RC for my PC (I didn't own any). This was not the news I was hoping for.

[LCM1223]

Mike Trout: “I’m gonna break all kinds of records and become the G.O.A.T.”

Mike Trout’s body: “haha lmao bltch you thought”

[finfangfan]

We can probably get close to guesstimating where Trout’s counting stats will finish by the time his contract ends after the 2030 season.

He has played in 707 games since the start of the 2017 season (per Statmuse). The Angels have played a total of 1133 games (through yesterday) during that time span which means Trout has appeared in 62.4% of the Angels games since the start of 2017.

Let’s assume he gets shutdown the rest of this season. That would leave 6 seasons on his contract or 972 games. If he continues to appear in 62.4% of games that means he has at least 612 games left in him but maybe even as many as 730 games (75%) if he is able to get himself healthy and finish out his contract. The Angels probably should have him DH and avoid SB attempts to get the most out of his bat over the rest of his contract.

[Above the Rim]

Yeah, DH with 3-4 plate appearances per game is a whole lot better than playing a position, getting injured and zero plate appearances per game. Hope Trout & the Angels are smart enough to figure this one out.

[NYRE2PECT]

I love Trout, but the Angels need to trade him asap, lest his contract horse-collar us for another six years a la Albert.


We missed that window once already. #thanksArte

[49ersSF]

Originally Posted by TBTC Baseball

When he plays only Pujols was better through age 32 season when you take the 162 game average. How crazy are the numbers Pujols put up?!?!

Yea, Pujols was an absolute beast.

The problem with Trout is all the "what ifs" that get applied to him. Early on it was the "what if" he continued this pace which of course led to the comparisons to Mantle, Mays, Aaron. Now it's the "what if" he didn't have the injuries.

The only thing that should matter is what the player did on the field. We can sit here century after century and consider the "what ifs" but the only thing that truly matters is what he was able to do when he actually played.

Trout was definitely a great player when he played but after all is said and done his career accomplishments above the 3 MVP's was rather limited and his all-time stats do not really compare to all-time greats like Mays, Aaron, Williams, Ruth, Gehrig.

He'll be remembered more for what he did not do rather than what he did.

[Above the Rim]

Sigh, all the Pujols references. The insane drop off the cliff from St. Louis vs. the Angels. And yeah, crazy numbers he put up ... in St. Louis ... not the Angels.

Going from a top tier HOFer in St. Louis to barely deserving starting playing time in Anaheim makes me scratch my head harder than ever - what really did happen to Pujols ? Shall we guess, or just not go there ?

Never in my life have I seen a player drop so much. As an Angels fan, truly painful trying to root for the guy.

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by Above the Rim

what really did happen to Pujols ? Shall we guess, or just not go there ?

Re: Pujols - Fangraphs did something on him a number of years ago in the middle of his slide with Anaheim and basically said that his decline was consistent with someone who was two years older... that's my "what really happened with Pujols" theory.

(Also, he did play for years with plantar fasciitis, which, if you've ever had something like that, hurts like the Dickens. He endured that for a few seasons before getting foot surgery)

As for the last year of the career renaissance... I wouldn't discount him getting more rest, playing to platoon advantages... and also MLB using juiced baseballs.

[hatchd]

Originally Posted by Above the Rim

Sigh, all the Pujols references. The insane drop off the cliff from St. Louis vs. the Angels. And yeah, crazy numbers he put up ... in St. Louis ... not the Angels.

Going from a top tier HOFer in St. Louis to barely deserving starting playing time in Anaheim makes me scratch my head harder than ever - what really did happen to Pujols ? Shall we guess, or just not go there ?

Never in my life have I seen a player drop so much. As an Angels fan, truly painful trying to root for the guy.

I watch probably 150 Cardinal games a year and was one of the few that was somewhat happy he didn't sign here. His last year/year and a half was still very good, but he just looked different. Almost like he got old overnight. My guess is he's a smidge older than he actually is and PF can kill an athlete. Steroids are never off the table, but I feel like he could have easily kept that going in LA if he wanted to.


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[anusinha]

Originally Posted by Above the Rim

Never in my life have I seen a player drop so much. As an Angels fan, truly painful trying to root for the guy.

Rendon was probably worse.

Trout heading back to so cal for "further evaluation", looks like he will be done for the year.

[ck6599]

I have never understood the Trout GOAT talk. He has been a great players, but we’re going on 4 years of him not being able to stay on the field. His time has come and gone. He may play and put up numbers for another 5 years, but he’ll never be able to stay on the field, the young guys in the league now are going to make him forgettable. I know some people think it’s admirable that he wanted to stay with the Angels…..I think it speaks to him being soft and knowing he couldn’t do it in a big market.

[kyle1707]

If it was not for 1 player Miguel Cabrera

Trout would of won 5 mvps in first 6 seasons

But ok he was over rated … or not like mays mantle or Aaron

I do agree he should have left. But now for sure he should go to Philly

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by NYRE2PECT

I love Trout, but the Angels need to trade him asap, lest his contract horse-collar us for another six years a la Albert.


We missed that window once already. #thanksArte

He basically can’t be traded with that contract unless the Angels want to eat a good portion of it. And why would they bother to do that when the return is going to be so minimal?

This is sadly what the rest of his career is going to look like. Hard to believe he has a single season of good health left in him.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

He basically can’t be traded with that contract unless the Angels want to eat a good portion of it. And why would they bother to do that when the return is going to be so minimal?

This is sadly what the rest of his career is going to look like. Hard to believe he has a single season of good health left in him.

I know…wishful thinking on my part.

Amazing, amazing player.

But an even more amazing decline.


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[Bcr]

He just needs to DH. He may not like it but that's his reality if he wants to stay on the field.

[speedyjg13]

Anyone unloading all their Trout cards at a discount?

Let me know

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Man, his cards tanked. 500 homers looked like a slam dunk but not anymore.

He’s almost like a rich mans Bo Jackson.

[Jeter1020]

Originally Posted by Bcr

He just needs to DH. He may not like it but that's his reality if he wants to stay on the field.

Or switch to first base


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