**Official Luka Doncic Thread**

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Jordan went through this
LeBron went through this

Luka is going through it and is just 22 years old.

He has time to figure it out. One way or another he needs to get more out of his teammates or do more himself (like Jordan scoring 37 ppg) to get to an MVP/Playoff winning level. I'm not counting him out.

True. But, what no fan really wants to say is that they're worried about Luka's mentality. Jordan and Lebron both had terrible teams and early struggles, but they also had a winner's mentality. Does Luka? Honestly, it's probably too early to tell, however, I'm a big believer in the best way to predict future success is to look at past behavior (I'm a teacher so I have to explain this to kids all of the time). And right now, Luka appears to be okay being a great, talented player while not giving much more than he currently is. I'd be concerned about his grit, determination, resilience, and perseverance because those intangibles are what ultimately determines success. When you're at his level, parsing team stats, his efficiency, etc. is useless. His ultimate success - or lack thereof - will be due to who he wants to be and how much mental motivation he is willing and able to summon.

[jmcca170]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

True. But, what no fan really wants to say is that they're worried about Luka's mentality. Jordan and Lebron both had terrible teams and early struggles, but they also had a winner's mentality. Does Luka? Honestly, it's probably too early to tell, however, I'm a big believer in the best way to predict future success is to look at past behavior (I'm a teacher so I have to explain this to kids all of the time). And right now, Luka appears to be okay being a great, talented player while not giving much more than he currently is. I'd be concerned about his grit, determination, resilience, and perseverance because those intangibles are what ultimately determines success. When you're at his level, parsing team stats, his efficiency, etc. is useless. His ultimate success - or lack thereof - will be due to who he wants to be and how much mental motivation he is willing and able to summon.

Did you not watch him at the Olympics ? Or the playoffs the last two seasons ?


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[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by jmcca170

Did you not watch him at the Olympics ? Or the playoffs the last two seasons ?


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Or in the Euroleague...

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by jmcca170

Did you not watch him at the Olympics ? Or the playoffs the last two seasons ?


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Originally Posted by Onepocketj

Or in the Euroleague...

Be a star who is carrying terrible teams? Yes. He's currently doing that now.

His basketball brilliance will carry him, but to be who he is projected to be he's going to have to dig deeper. In the NBA, a star can will their team to fulfilling its potential - i.e. Iverson on the 76ers, Lebron on the early Cavs teams, Giannis last year - but it takes so much mental energy. I'm not convinced he has the capacity to do that. His disposition suggests he's a little too pampered.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Be a star who is carrying terrible teams? Yes. He's currently doing that now.

His basketball brilliance will carry him, but to be who he is projected to be he's going to have to dig deeper. In the NBA, a star can will their team to fulfilling its potential - i.e. Iverson on the 76ers, Lebron on the early Cavs teams, Giannis last year - but it takes so much mental energy. I'm not convinced he has the capacity to do that. His disposition suggests he's a little too pampered.

This is not the NBA of the early 2000s. One guy can’t get a team to the Finals anymore. Giannis didn’t do it all himself, but he had a damn fine playoffs.

Look at the last 20 years of NBA champions and find me one team that didn’t have an elite depth chart. Mavs don’t have #@#@#@#@ for depth right now.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Be a star who is carrying terrible teams? Yes. He's currently doing that now.

His basketball brilliance will carry him, but to be who he is projected to be he's going to have to dig deeper. In the NBA, a star can will their team to fulfilling its potential - i.e. Iverson on the 76ers, Lebron on the early Cavs teams, Giannis last year - but it takes so much mental energy. I'm not convinced he has the capacity to do that. His disposition suggests he's a little too pampered.

I can see what you're saying. The whining, the being out of shape, and some of his other body language leaves something to be desired.

But he also hasn't had a real great teammates in the NBA. Iverson never won a chip and Bron didn't win until he had great teammates. Giannis won last year with a pretty good supporting cast along and beat the Nets (without Kyrie and a hobbled Harden) by an inch of KD's shoe.

Luka has time to turn it around but he's approaching a crossroads.

[Onepocketj]

No Luka tonight but they may escape with a win.

[kordell1]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

True. But, what no fan really wants to say is that they're worried about Luka's mentality. Jordan and Lebron both had terrible teams and early struggles, but they also had a winner's mentality. Does Luka? Honestly, it's probably too early to tell, however, I'm a big believer in the best way to predict future success is to look at past behavior (I'm a teacher so I have to explain this to kids all homes of the time). And right now, Luka appears to be okay being a great, talented player while not giving much more than he currently is. I'd be concerned about his grit, determination, resilience, and perseverance because those intangibles are what ultimately determines success. When you're at his level, parsing team stats, his efficiency, etc. is useless. His ultimate success - or lack thereof - will be due to who he wants to be and how much mental motivation he is willing and able to summon.

I see frustration more than anything. Does he complain to the refs too much? Absolutely, but he gets fouled a ton with no call. He also takes a beating to get open looks for his teammates only to watch them miss wide open shot after wide open shot. He may have rough games, but outside of maybe Brunson, he is the only one that shows up every night fighting to win. Look at his Euroleague as a teenager, his Olympic performance on a team that had never previously qualified and his NBA playoff performances already. He is a big game clutch player but he can’t do it all himself.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

No Luka tonight but they may escape with a win.

They’re lucky they played OKC. Because that was another #@#@#@#@ shooting performance.

[Spacemanspif]

Helluva drop off in 10 days. I’m not complaining though

[Thirsty Whale]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

Helluva drop off in 10 days. I’m not complaining though

Although 1K for a PSA 10 seems cheap, that card was never 2K in BGS 9.5.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by Thirsty Whale

Although 1K for a PSA 10 seems cheap, that card was never 2K in BGS 9.5.

Perhaps not, but do you know for a fact it didn't get paid for? The top 3 bidders on it had feedback of 104, 387, 36. No "obvious shills" and seems more in line with comps than this sale.

They obviously don't come up often so there's not a lot of comps to go off, but the best I could find were the $1100 Blue Phoenix raw, $3500 & $6000 for Blue Phoenix PSA 10s during the summer, $5800 Blue Phoenix BGS 10 during the summer, $950 Purple Crusade & $725 Purple Crusade PSA 9, and the only same card sale was for $2550 last January. By any of those comps, $1100 for a Purple Phoenix PSA 10 seems like an outlier on the low end.

I mean, a PSA 10 for $1100 means a raw or PSA 9 would be in $250-350 territory, which... I just don't see that happening, especially with what the Purple Crusades pulled.

[KhalDrogo]

The Chronicles brand is eroding away. I wouldn’t spend $1k on a PSA 10 Purple, let alone $2k on a BGS 9.5. The blues are nice, but got pumped to the max here, and prices will fall over time to bring them into a realistic range.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The Chronicles brand is eroding away. I wouldn’t spend $1k on a PSA 10 Purple, let alone $2k on a BGS 9.5. The blues are nice, but got pumped to the max here, and prices will fall over time to bring them into a realistic range.

I'm a little biased since I have a couple of them - but the Phoenix and Crusade blues are 3rd best Luka blue rookies IMO. Obviously Prizm Blue /199 is the best followed by Optic Blue /49. Phoenix and Crusade can sit under that tier on their own. The rest of the chrome blues (Select, Prizm Mosaic) have issues like the blue doesn't match, die cut, not numbered, etc.

2019-20 Chronicles was a terrible product but they ramped it back up this year - nice to see Luka in Crusade and Phoenix again.

[jmcca170]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I'm a little biased since I have a couple of them - but the Phoenix and Crusade blues are 3rd best Luka blue rookies IMO. Obviously Prizm Blue /199 best the best followed by Optic Blue /49. Phoenix and Crusade can sit under that tier on their own. The rest of the chrome blues (Select, Prizm Mosaic) have issues like the blue doesn't match, die cut, not numbered, etc.

2019-20 Chronicles was a terrible product but they ramped it back up this year - nice to see Luka in Crusade and Phoenix again.

If the blue select premier wasn’t die cut, I don’t think Id have been able to afford one.


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[TSonn]

Originally Posted by jmcca170

If the blue select premier wasn’t die cut, I don’t think Id have been able to afford one.


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Agreed. It's still an awesome card but obviously a die cut inherently cuts down its popularity.

[Thirsty Whale]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

Perhaps not, but do you know for a fact it didn't get paid for? The top 3 bidders on it had feedback of 104, 387, 36. No "obvious shills" and seems more in line with comps than this sale.

I have no evidence that it wasn’t paid for, but I don’t even take a look on Probstein’s sales when I try to find out comps for a card, I just auto skip them.

[ballhawkdawk]

Some good dialogue on this page about Luka’s motivation and prices. He’s admitted to relaxing a bit too much in the offseason, and I think that’s where the concern comes from about his drive. It’s easier to show up for game day than it is offseason workouts. See AI. But that’s also something that I think sorts itself out over time as he matures. Maybe being in such a hopeless spot has something to do with it… I dunno. He has a lot of basketball ahead of him regardless.

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by TSonn

I'm a little biased since I have a couple of them - but the Phoenix and Crusade blues are 3rd best Luka blue rookies IMO. Obviously Prizm Blue /199 is the best followed by Optic Blue /49. Phoenix and Crusade can sit under that tier on their own. The rest of the chrome blues (Select, Prizm Mosaic) have issues like the blue doesn't match, die cut, not numbered, etc.

2019-20 Chronicles was a terrible product but they ramped it back up this year - nice to see Luka in Crusade and Phoenix again.

Contenders Optic Blues are definitely above anything from Chronicles.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by sethc1020

Contenders Optic Blues are definitely above anything from Chronicles.

Yeah if we include autos then that's a different list.

[jmcca170]

Originally Posted by sethc1020

Contenders Optic Blues are definitely above anything from Chronicles.

I’ve never understood why they didn’t do Rookie Tickets without autos. Base/variation and different colors. This picture is the 2nd year, but something like this as a RC would’ve been amazing


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[TSonn]

Originally Posted by jmcca170

I’ve never understood why they didn’t do Rookie Tickets without autos. Base/variation and different colors. This picture is the 2nd year, but something like this as a RC would’ve been amazing


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They were case hits in regular contenders. But, yeah, it would've been awesome to have the base/parallels in contenders optic too.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by jmcca170

I’ve never understood why they didn’t do Rookie Tickets without autos. Base/variation and different colors. This picture is the 2nd year, but something like this as a RC would’ve been amazing


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I thought it was better that they don't have base rc in the 2018-19 contenders optic. Because there's no non-auto base card and the auto cards' set number continues from where the base card ends, the silver rc auto can be considered a true rookie card, not a rookie parallel, a rookie insert, or a rookie year card.

[cardozo]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The Chronicles brand is eroding away. I wouldn’t spend $1k on a PSA 10 Purple, let alone $2k on a BGS 9.5. The blues are nice, but got pumped to the max here, and prices will fall over time to bring them into a realistic range.

Curious if you would have said the same if the prices remained the same or went up .

[CanadianKid]

Fear, never fails.